Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[holy_handgrenade]

I think you misunderstand the actual cost of manufacturing and getting a product to market. It's only cheap for the clone makers because they dont have to do any design work, they just need to set the line up. Even a big authentic mod manufacturer spent quite a bit of time, spent money on design, spent money making prototypes and testing. It's called R&D. That also takes time, which the designer/design team needs to be compensated. I mean, seriously, just in parts, a computer is only about $50 worth of stuff, but you still spend $600-$3,000 to get a computer.

It's an over simplification that fails to take any of these things into account.

The main reason clones hurt the industry is as soon as a mod maker is disheartened enough to realize they wont recoup thier costs, they stop releasing products. The innovation goes out the window, and you're left with an industry that is full of last year's models.

 

[TXBiker]

At the end of the day Chinese manufacturers will clone. There's really not much that can be done except throw money at attorneys. China has cloned everything not just vape gear. Honda motors and bikes have been cloned the R/C industry has been cloned jeez they clone eachother. Go to Harbor Freight or Northern Tool and see a whole store full of clones. Copyright laws in China are almost non existent and full of holes. Sucks but thats the way it is and has been for a long time.

 

[bluecat]

I think you misunderstand the actual cost of manufacturing and getting a product to market. It's only cheap for the clone makers because they dont have to do any design work, they just need to set the line up. Even a big authentic mod manufacturer spent quite a bit of time, spent money on design, spent money making prototypes and testing. It's called R&D. That also takes time, which the designer/design team needs to be compensated. I mean, seriously, just in parts, a computer is only about $50 worth of stuff, but you still spend $600-$3,000 to get a computer.

It's an over simplification that fails to take any of these things into account.

The main reason clones hurt the industry is as soon as a mod maker is disheartened enough to realize they wont recoup thier costs, they stop releasing products. The innovation goes out the window, and you're left with an industry that is full of last year's models.

No offense but if they spent much on R&D.... they should lose a ton of money. Unless their R&D consisted of a 1 year long cruise while drinking fu-fu drinks discussing how/where to place a logo on a metal tube.

I'll give you the first one that ever came out. After that.. my 12 year old daughter could do the same. Considering they all look the same. Oh wait.... deciding on copper, stainless steel or brass.... yeah 6 months worth of R&D there.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

No offense but if they spent much on R&D.... they should lose a ton of money. Unless their R&D consisted of a 1 year long cruise while drinking fu-fu drinks discussing how/where to place a logo on a metal tube.

I'll give you the first one that ever came out. After that.. my 12 year old daughter could do the same. Considering they all look the same. Oh wait.... deciding on copper, stainless steel or brass.... yeah 6 months worth of R&D there.

Don't forget the months of focus groups determining whether to use .8mm or 1mm thread pitch on those tube sections!

 

[Jman8]

The Anti-clone crowd is obviously crying hardest in this thread, so I guess I don't need to tell them to cry harder, so....

Really? Let's compare rant of OP to ANY other post in this thread, and see who's crying/whining the most.

Anti-clone people realize the reality and are okay with the lawsuit. Pro-clone people seem bent out of shape over what surely was foreseeable.

 

[Jman8]

my 12 year old daughter could do the same.

Could you ask your 12 year old daughter to make me a Provari? Tell her I'll buy her an app for up to $2.99 if she does. (A pirated app of course, but she'll never know the difference.)

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Really? Let's compare rant of OP to ANY other post in this thread, and see who's crying/whining the most.

Anti-clone people realize the reality and are okay with the lawsuit. Pro-clone people seem bent out of shape over what surely was foreseeable.

Seeing as the Anti clone crowd has to switch arguments every few pages and are handily defeated by the Pro clone crowd, I'd say you are crying the hardest. It's really simple. The free market pounded you a new one, and you don't like it.

 

[Ed_C]

I doubt there's many dollars spent in R&D. There's original made in China mods that are as inexpensive as the clones. The biggest difference is the cost of labor.

 

[bluecat]

Could you ask your 12 year old daughter to make me a Provari? Tell her I'll buy her an app for up to $2.99 if she does. (A pirated app of course, but she'll never know the difference.)

Has a Provari been cloned? I'll answer.. No it hasn't.. Why because it is more than a tube, switch and 510 connection. She did make a pretty good mech mod out of her mac and cheese the other day... Which makes an interesting point I am sure has been brought up before. How come only mechs are getting the brunt of the cloning process.... You are a smart dude... I am sure you know the answer even though you won't want to say it.

BTW.. I was talking about R&D costs. Nice little taking my post out of context.

She would probably love the app. I don't let her buy apps. All she buys is Katie Perry and dance moms.

 

[Jman8]

Seeing as the Anti clone crowd has to switch arguments every few pages

Not accurate.

and are handily defeated by the Pro clone crowd

Not accurate.

I'd say you are crying the hardest

Please reference OP before making this baseless claim.

It's really simple. The free market pounded you a new one, and you don't like it.

I'm okay with existence of clones. I think they are theft, and in a world where black market may be a viable option, I think such theft will be warranted.

Seems like pro-clone crowd has trouble understanding that clones are theft. And we who understand the other side, spend umpteen hundred pages hammering that home as it really isn't all that challenging to make the point, even while it is observably challenging for some to understand this point.

 

[Ryedan]

I doubt there's many dollars spent in R&D. There's original made in China mods that are as inexpensive as the clones. The biggest difference is the cost of labor.

Cheap labor is a big part of it but materials are cheaper there too. Lower quality than NA or European standards is also cheaper. NA quality can be bought if the manufacturer has the ability to produce it, but then costs are higher.

 

[bluecat]

I doubt there's many dollars spent in R&D. There's original made in China mods that are as inexpensive as the clones. The biggest difference is the cost of labor.

That is one thing I can agree with. Although the automation process that Americans brought to the forefront in the 70s and 80s.. seems to have disappeared.

I would also add raw materials in that mix.

 

[stevegmu]

China has high tech equipment, but a lack of skilled or motivated workers to correct problems. The company I work for has a factory in Shenzhen which is far more advanced than the one I work at. The reason why we put out superior products has everything to do with the people, not the machinery. We can make corrections and develop processes which the PRC factories seemingly can not do. Our production manager who spent time there said the real difference is those at the Chinese factories simply care about housing, feeding their families and basic needs, whereas American workers at our factories take those basic needs as a given. I know if I work hard and get a good bonus, I'll be able to go to Prague twice a year to see my girlfriends, whereas the Chinese factory worker simply thinks about survival...

 

[Rossum]

The free market pounded you a new one, and you don't like it.

You seem to be confusing a free market and thieves. We used to shoot thieves. Wars have started over (much) less than what China has been doing to the first world over the last decade or two.

 

[Heldar]

Could you ask your 12 year old daughter to make me a Provari? Tell her I'll buy her an app for up to $2.99 if she does. (A pirated app of course, but she'll never know the difference.)

A provari took actual R&D. Like designing a board and programming it. Neither of those two things are present in mech mods.

 

[NathanielFT]

Wars have started over (much) less than what China has been doing to the first world over the last decade or two.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coldrake]

Has a Provari been cloned? I'll answer.. No it hasn't..

Actually it has. Twice.



I realize most of the people in this thread ignored this when I posted it the first time, but I'm going to post it again anyway.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...houghts-clones-counterfeits.html#post13906638

In justifying their opinion, they point to the price of Chinese clones/counterfeits. What they fail to realize time and time again is that Chinese manufacturing is often heavily subsidized by their gov't, from the factories and equipment, to materials, labor and even shipping. The Chinese will even sell products at a loss just to gain a market monopoly. You can gain no insight into US production costs by comparing to the Chinese.

The Chinese are also not burdened with the taxes and insurance US Manufactures have. For example, here at Super-T we carry four insurance policies, two required by MN law and the other two required by the leasing companies (Workmans Comp, Propertly Liability, Unemployment and Equipment (fire, theft). Couple that with equipment loan payments, Shop rent, Employee wages, Tooling, electricity, product material and subcomponent costs and a myriad of other costs(website,product design, plating, advertising, CC processors, drafting, accountant, engineering etc) and you can start to see the real costs involved in producing just a "round tube".

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Not accurate.



Not accurate.



Please reference OP before making this baseless claim.



I'm okay with existence of clones. I think they are theft, and in a world where black market may be a viable option, I think such theft will be warranted.

Seems like pro-clone crowd has trouble understanding that clones are theft. And we who understand the other side, spend umpteen hundred pages hammering that home as it really isn't all that challenging to make the point, even while it is observably challenging for some to understand this point.

Translate: I said it's false, so it's false.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

You seem to be confusing a free market and thieves. We used to shoot thieves. Wars have started over (much) less than what China has been doing to the first world over the last decade or two.

So you're saying the free market is fine only if it benefits you. Check.

 

[Absintheur]

I have an idea that those who think the counterfeits (clones) are fine and dandy have never had an original design ripped off by a major league manufacturing outfit and had to stand and watch an original design you created make someone else rich. It sucks to say the least.

If they are just "metal tubes" then why do the makers of counterfeits find it necessary to steal steal and copy original artwork on said tubes? Does the engraving make it vape better?

I would no more own a counterfeit mod than I would steal an original from someone...it's same thing in my book. If you are ok with owning them that is your choice, it is a free country after all and it is a personal choice.