Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[Robino1]

*AHEM*

Another reminder:

8. Courtesy
a. Members must be polite at all times. When addressing another Forum user, you will be polite. Courteous discussion is welcome here but heated and abusive argument is not. If attacked you are not allowed to respond in kind. Instead use the Private Message system and try to resolve matters privately and amicably. If problems persist ask for the help of a Moderator.

9. Personal attacks
You can disagree with the subject matter of a post, but never personally attack the poster - “Attack the post, not the poster”. Treat people as you would like to be treated yourself: with courtesy.

10. Misconduct
a. These are not permitted -
•Flaming (insults).

 

[Rossum]

So you're saying the free market is fine only if it benefits you. Check.

Nope. I have no involvement with the vape industry except as a consumer.

What I'm saying is a free market is fine as long as business is conducted honestly. Slapping some other company's name and logo on a copy of their product is NOT honest. Neither is putting an incorrect country of origin on the goods or their packaging. These are things I would never consider doing in the business that I do own and run, nor will I support any business (by buying its products) that engages in such dishonesty.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Nope. I have no involvement with the vape industry except as a consumer.

What I'm saying is a free market is fine as long as business is conducted honestly. Slapping some other company's name and logo on a copy of their product is NOT honest. Neither is putting an incorrect country of origin on the goods or their packaging. These are things I would never consider doing in the business that I do own and run, nor will I support any business (by buying its products) that engages in such dishonesty.

So the free market is the best. Except when it isn't.

 

[dr g]

I think you misunderstand the actual cost of manufacturing and getting a product to market. It's only cheap for the clone makers because they dont have to do any design work, they just need to set the line up. Even a big authentic mod manufacturer spent quite a bit of time, spent money on design, spent money making prototypes and testing. It's called R&D. That also takes time, which the designer/design team needs to be compensated. I mean, seriously, just in parts, a computer is only about $50 worth of stuff, but you still spend $600-$3,000 to get a computer.

It's an over simplification that fails to take any of these things into account.

The main reason clones hurt the industry is as soon as a mod maker is disheartened enough to realize they wont recoup thier costs, they stop releasing products. The innovation goes out the window, and you're left with an industry that is full of last year's models.

Marketing is another cost, and then there's a big one almost no one takes into account explicitly: risk. I guess your last line addresses it from the other direction, but most consumers fail to understand there is a huge risk chasm between introducing a new product and copying an established one.

 

[Rossum]

So the free market is the best. Except when it isn't.

Lying, cheating, and stealing are NOT what a "free market" is about.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Lying, cheating, and stealing are NOT what a "protected market" is about.

Fixed that for you.

 

[samcm010]

Except that right and wrong is in and of itself an opinion. Some think that gay marriage is right, some think it's wrong. When a piece of paper decides that fate are you just automatically going to convert your view to match what's on the paper?

I hate that we are more and more living in a world where right and wrong are becoming individual opinions. Does anyone think we are getting better by dumbing down our morals as a people? But that does not make it right or good for society. There is right and there is wrong no matter if certain individuals think otherwise. Stealing from another person is wrong regardless of the "opinion" of people who think it is ok. Murdering someone else is wrong regardless of whether some individuals think it might be ok for them... I could go on and on. But the fact is whether someone justifies their wrong choices with any litany of excuses and justifications theft is still wrong. And putting a stolen logo on anything for sale commercially whether the creator copyrighted it or not is wrong. There is no grey area on this topic only excuses and justifications from people who choose to ignore, participate or support this theft.

 

[samcm010]

Then enjoy your overpriced metal tube and false sense of superiority. /discussion

Ok not sure where you contrived my sense of superiority or where you can realistically support your argument that any of my "metal tubes" are overpriced. But you continue to support my argument that "There is no grey area on this topic only excuses and justifications from people who choose to ignore, participate or support this theft"

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Ok not sure where you contrived my sense of superiority or where you can realistically support your argument that any of my "metal tubes" are overpriced. But you continue to support my argument that "There is no grey area on this topic only excuses and justifications from people who choose to ignore, participate or support this theft"

Whatever works for you. Cool story, bro. However, I would like for you to cite any trademark protection that mod makers have on their designs. Because you have to own something in order for it to be stolen.

 

[samcm010]

Also just so you know I actually have a modicum of respect for some on here ( like Circa) who fully admit they are ok with Stealing other peoples work then those who continue to try and justify it by coming up with poor unsupported uninformed arguments like "they are making to much money" "it costs so much less than they charge" "they are not available" "i am on a budget" etc etc. And before you judge my elitism check my posts on here and elsewhere I try very hard to help new and experienced vapers I regularly ship at my expense juice to new vapers and send Atties rebuilt so that new vapers can try them.. your accusation that I have a feeling of superiority is very misplaced and I think just another way for you to deflect and excuse your justifying and supporting theft.

 

[samcm010]

Whatever works for you. Cool story, bro. However, I would like for you to cite any trademark protection that mod makers have on their designs. Because you have to own something in order for it to be stolen.

They own the Logo whether or not it is copyrighted. China pays no attention to US copyrights either way. I would think someone like you based on what I have read would not really think the government paperwork should matter much. I would ask do you think Musicians deserve to get compensated for their songs? Again if not whether they copyright them or not if you think it is ok to download them for free illegally then you stand on the side of nothing is anyone's and that is ok I disagree but at least you stand on your opinion

 

[stevegmu]

I feel superior; I have ethics and morals...

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Also just so you know I actually have a modicum of respect for some on here ( like Circa) who fully admit they are ok with Stealing other peoples work then those who continue to try and justify it by coming up with poor unsupported uninformed arguments like "they are making to much money" "it costs so much less than they charge" "they are not available" "i am on a budget" etc etc. And before you judge my elitism check my posts on here and elsewhere I try very hard to help new and experienced vapers I regularly ship at my expense juice to new vapers and send Atties rebuilt so that new vapers can try them.. your accusation that I have a feeling of superiority is very misplaced.

This post can easily be described as "tooting one's own horn". It is completely possible to both help others while being self important at the same time. Posts like the quoted one above prove that.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

I feel superior; I have ethics and morals...

That is a feeling. Feelings=/=reality.

 

[stevegmu]

That is a feeling. Feelings=/=reality.

Oh, ok. I am superior; I have ethics and morals...

 

[samcm010]

This post can easily be described as "tooting one's own horn". It is completely possible to both help others while being self important at the same time. Posts like the quoted one above prove that.

HAHAHA ok you continue to deflect the real issue.

 

[stevegmu]

We all like to say we're better than we rally are from behind a keyboard. You're no exception.

No, I really am. I know the difference between right and wrong and live by a certain set of moral and ethical standards the entitlement generation just wouldn't understand...

 

[twall]

Actually, in an actual free market, the consumer is judge and jury. They either buy it, or they don't. If they don't buy clones, the particular clone will cease to be made.

I don't care what your morals are in business, or what part of the world you are manufacturing in. I don't care if you are making a "inspired by" product or an outright copy. Original and genuine or clone counterfeit. If there is no demand for your wares, you can't run a business.

I guess my point is, clones would not exist if people didn't want them. Making someone feel guilty for buying a clone, or thinking you did your Karma good by buying only genuine, is kind of a circle jerk argument that has no reconciliation. Morals, however, do indeed depend on your society. "How you were raised" if you will.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight. I own genuine stuff, and I have cloned stuff I own gen watches, and I own very nice fake Rolexes.

Vote with your own wallet. I suppose that's all you can do, no matter where your opinion on this lines up.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

No, I really am. I know the difference between right and wrong and live by a certain set of moral and ethical standards the entitlement generation just wouldn't understand...

Cool story, bro.

 

[UncleChuck]

Intellectual property and physical property are not the same thing, acting as if they are is dishonest at best.