Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[Flt Simulation]

For all you CLONE HATERS out there, where is you sense of 'helping others in need'.

If you realized just how many people live in China, you would be supporting the clone movement.

These hard working people need jobs too, and there are so many of them. Buying Chinese clones is one of the best ways for you to support the 'working man' in China ... Remember, he (or she) has a family to support too, and if he has no job, there is no Unemployment insurance in China to fall back on (like we have here in the US).

Show Mr Wang, and Mr Chin, and Ms Yong, and Mrs Wu that you here in the United States support there effort in bringing quality Chinese products to the hungry US market.

 

[bluecat]

No, no, no.. If you cant afford a mod, you should sell blood or beg on a street corner so people who CAN afford mods can yell at you to 'Get a job! Bum!'

I think he mentioned plasma though. You get more coinage for donating plasma. I have always given my blood or plasma for free. Not sure I will ever give plasma again. Hurts like a .....

 

[tearose50]

Oh boy, a clone debate.... Didn't see that one coming, lol. Seems like all we talk about these days.

What I wanna see is a smart designer from the US or Europe come up with a nice design and then work with a China manufacturer to make them. Then, have the China manufacturer send all the unites back to the designer where he (or she) has a team of people run some QA checks on each unite... Some unites will be bunk for whatever reason, those will then no be distributed. The ones that pass QA will be boxed up and sold.

This would insure an original design with minimal to no defects. I think we could get the cost of a mod at around $50 this way and the cost of an atty around $35. Sure, China will clone the thing... But I know myself and a lot of other people would not by the clone since the original is so cheap.

It's like the mutation x atomizer, it was designed in America but made in China. It's a really good RDA for $25. Yea, you can get the clone for 10-15 bucks, but who the hell would by the clone when the real deal is 10 bucks more.

If you can't beat them, joint them. Make a sick design and have China make it to insure a low end cost.... But do some QA on the end by the designers hands. This will insure the user will get a good original non clone product. Your bound to have %30 of them come out as junk, but with a QA test run before they get sent out you'll insure a near %100 accuracy.

You could even make the exact same design in the US with a slightly different logo for the vapers that refuse to support China in anyway. So your company would be able to supply solid US made mods, and quality China made ones. You'd tap into both markets. The potential to make lots of money and make lots of people happy at the same time is there. Take advantage someone, it's like an untapped gold mind idea here just waiting be put into play.

Mark my words.... This will happen soon. I'm not the only one thinking about this. I just don't have a resources.

:: sent from android with tapatalk ::

Its been done several times. In fact, I'd say most of the time about 3 or more years ago. Back then there were only a few pricey steel or aluminum models and lots of modders that went into business building from various materials. There was mostly cig alikes and ego's from Chinese Companies. (like Joyetech). Most all else was made in China specifically for the retailer/online "distributor". MadVapes and Nhaler come to mind, but there certainly were others that supplied in quantity. I even know of one who practically lived in China to oversee his company's product production.

 

[tearose50]

nevermind....

 

[Circa Survivor]

Place yourself in this scenario:

You work for a large company that designed and produces a product. Heck you even helped design the product.You depend on your employment for your families financial security and your retirement planning. Life is good but then China decides to grab one of your products and makes a clone of your companies product and markets it at half the cost and tax free. China floods the market and their sales soar because of the price and after all this is a free market economy, right? All of a sudden your employment is terminated due to lack of sales and the company closes. As a consumer of the cloned product you may have benefited short-term from the cost savings you realized but in the long run what was the impact?

You fail to realize these most of these "large companies" are just a few guys who started up in the past year or so. If they quit their jobs or whatever they were doing and relied on making mods to provide for them or their families, then they've made a huge mistake.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

After all this debate, I must say that in practical terms, the pro-clone crowd is winning. Still going to be produced, and still going to be a market for them.

With all that said, I'm still happy clone makers are getting sued.

Clones are an easy way to mimic having earned success in a world where it is increasingly difficult to actually do so.

Maurice

 

[rondasherrill]

Clones are an easy way to mimic having earned success in a world where it is increasingly difficult to actually do so.

Maurice

Maybe I'm missing something... Has anyone EVER bought a clone to try to pass it off as an original? Most seem pretty open about the fact that they bought a cheap clone.

In my experience, it seems more that people tend to buy clones because despite what most people want to believe, clones DO tend to perform just as well as their authentic counterparts, and the authentics have a KNOWN reputation.

 

[Circa Survivor]

Maybe I'm missing something... Has anyone EVER bought a clone to try to pass it off as an original? Most seem pretty open about the fact that they bought a cheap clone.

In my experience, it seems more that people tend to buy clones because despite what most people want to believe, clones DO tend to perform just as well as their authentic counterparts, and the authentics have a KNOWN reputation.

Exactly. I've never seen anyone try to pass a clone as an original. Even my local B&M shops state they're clones. I guess you have your shady sellers here and there, but most people would know better. On the topic of clone atomizers, they perform the same. There's not much stuff going on here. It's basic functions, so it really just comes down to build quality which in a lot of cases is on par with an authentic.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

For all you CLONE HATERS out there, where is you sense of 'helping others in need'.

If you realized just how many people live in China, you would be supporting the clone movement.

These hard working people need jobs too, and there are so many of them. Buying Chinese clones is one of the best ways for you to support the 'working man' in China ... Remember, he (or she) has a family to support too, and if he has no job, there is no Unemployment Insurance in China to fall back on (like we have here in the US).

Show Mr Wang, and Mr Chin, and Ms Yong, and Mrs Wu that you here in the United States support there effort in bringing quality Chinese products to the hungry US market.

China Unemployment Rate | 2002-2014 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

You need to take a look at this, Philippines (6.7%) and the United States (6.1%) have a higher unemployment rate than China (4.1%), Greece has an insane unemployment rate of (27%) home of the Nemesis and Portugal sits at a very high (13.9%) home of the Caravela.

China is the second largest economy in the world and will surpass the US in under a decade. They are already the number one exporter in the world with the US taking second place in exports of which we export just 68.1% of what China does in terms of US dollar value.

Do a little research on what you are supporting. China is doing exceptionally well as a whole, better than most of the world in fact.

Maurice

 

[Wow1420]

You'll give some of the Provari people a near stroke talking like that.

I'd laugh at them for buying an overpriced, outdated vaporizer.

Still, I feel that Provari comes closer to justifying the asking price than the majority of $200+ authentic shiny tubes. ( no, I don't own one ).

To me an ecig is a commodity. If I get a years use out of a device then it has well justified the $20 or $30 expenditure. The way this industry is growing, nearly everything we're using today will be obsolete in 3 to 5 years. The idea of an "investment" in a shiny tube, hoping it won't loose value in 10 years is ludicrous. Buy one if it brings you pleasure to own one. But to claim it's a wise financial "investment " is silly.

 

[Circa Survivor]

China Unemployment Rate | 2002-2014 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

You need to take a look at this, Philippines (6.7%) and the United States (6.1%) have a higher unemployment rate than China (4.1%), Greece has an insane unemployment rate of (27%) home of the Nemesis and Portugal sits at a very high (13.9%) home of the Caravela.

China is the second largest economy in the world and will surpass the US in under a decade. They are already the number one exporter in the world with the US taking second place in exports of which we export just 68.1% of what China does in terms of US dollar value.

Do a little research on what you are supporting. China is doing exceptionally well as a whole, better than most of the world in fact.

Maurice

Are you trying to save the world by buying "authentic" vaping devices? The difference YOU make is so insignificant it may as well be non-existent.

 

[bluecat]

Clones are an easy way to mimic having earned success in a world where it is increasingly difficult to actually do so.

Maurice

I don't think this conversation has anything to do with earning success. You may be looking from it from a manufacturers point of view. The majority of consumers do not. Most manufacturers listen to their client base and adjust their products to suit their needs. If a manufacturer is unable to do that, well either the consumer will look elsewhere or out of country.

I can afford an authentic. I will never buy one, except maybe the Provari V3, Protvapor, or one of the DNAs from Innokin whenever those are released. I do not place a value on the mech mods at 200.00. The only reason I bought one is I could get a clone for 20.00. I would not have bought one for 200 bucks. I would not have saved for one. Like I said I feel it is a rip off. If the manufacturer cannot meet my needs then sucks to be him/her. I have been reamed once before. It won't happen again.

 

[Flt Simulation]

Maurice ... It was all 'tongue in cheek'

 

[skoony]

Just caught up on this thread. Lemme get this straight. If a person cannot afford an authentic mod for whatever reason, they should just accept their lot in life and be relegated to blister pack eGo's forever. But if a mod maker doesn't have the business sense to get their intellectual property protected, they should still be afforded that protection. Got it. Makes perfect sense.

in the past many manufactures may not have paid much attention from a legal stand point.
from now into the future i believe this attitude will change as the market matures.

for now i have decided i want a Cadillac Escalade.
they start out in the 60-70 thousand dollar range. oops,not enough bucks in the wallet.
lets see,i know,i'll buy that clone.
what no clones?
guess i just have to get that 96 Taurus Wagon instead.
hey, at least i'm not walking.

regards
mike

 

[Circa Survivor]

in the past many manufactures may not have paid much attention from a legal stand point.
from now into the future i believe this attitude will change as the market matures.

for now i have decided i want a Cadillac Escalade.
they start out in the 60-70 thousand dollar range. oops,not enough bucks in the wallet.
lets see,i know,i'll buy that clone.
what no clones?
guess i just have to get that 96 Taurus Wagon instead.
hey, at least i'm not walking.

regards
mike

Don't think that analogy really works when applying it to vaping :\

 

[skoony]

Don't think that analogy really works when applying it to vaping :\

it does to the clone v authentic discussion.

regards
mike

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Maybe I'm missing something... Has anyone EVER bought a clone to try to pass it off as an original? Most seem pretty open about the fact that they bought a cheap clone.

In my experience, it seems more that people tend to buy clones because despite what most people want to believe, clones DO tend to perform just as well as their authentic counterparts, and the authentics have a KNOWN reputation.

Of course an accurate clone works just as well as an authentic why wouldn't it?

Clones are an easy way to mimic having earned success in a world where it is increasingly difficult to actually do so.

Maurice

Authentic devices cost more, thus require a higher level of success in earning power to attain, similarly the performance of such devices is only attainable if you have earned a certain measure of success.

Copies, clones, counterfeits all undermine this reward system of success by allowing people to reward themselves similarly for doing less.

It is something like a credit card that allows you to buy something prior to actually earning the money. Or loans that allow you to buy a house or car or what have you, all without actually having worked to earn what you are using. Or like giving a child their allowance prior to them doing their chores.

It is a problem of huge magnitude, the whole give me my reward now, I'll work it off later maybe.

Maurice

 

[bluecat]

Authentic devices cost more, thus require a higher level of success in earning power to attain, similarly the performance of such devices is only attainable if you have earned a certain measure of success.

Copies, clones, counterfeits all undermine this reward system of success by allowing people to reward themselves similarly for doing less.

It is something like a credit card that allows you to buy something prior to actually earning the money. Or loans that allow you to buy a house or car or what have you, all without actually having worked to earn what you are using. Or like giving a child their allowance prior to them doing their chores.

It is a problem of huge magnitude, the whole give me my reward now, I'll work it off later maybe.

Maurice

If your success depends on my spending my money on you, you should cater to my needs. I as a consumer do not and will not cater to your needs as a manufacturer. If you as a manufacturer cannot or will not produce what a high percentage of vapors are looking for.. that isn't my problem as a consumer. I work with my clients to make sure their needs are met in price and in the job I do. My price is average.. it isn't high end and it isn't low end. We often joke that we should double our fees. Why? because we will lose half our clients and work less yet still retain the other half and make the same amount. We haven't but looks like that is your philosophy. Yet then get mad when some one goes elsewhere with their purchasing dollar.

It is nothing like a CC.

It is nothing like an allowance. Heck I can't even get my kids up to do chores. The way I do it is to take money away from them if they do not do a chore.

Use the USA card. Use the authentic card. Use the taking money from hard working Americans.. I see a path there.

I get told many times that I only put a number there. I respond with a smile and say yes, but I know where the number goes.

 

[Jman8]

Clones are an easy way to mimic having earned success in a world where it is increasingly difficult to actually do so.

Maurice

As I've stated in another clone debate thread....

I long for the day where (Star Trek like) replicators are all around us, or really advanced 3D printers. Then it'll be cloning galore and the need for whatever products your current company produces (and sells) will be gone.

And if you are in the services industry, then let iRobot handle that. Who needs silly humans anyways?
(I think it's almost time to launch Skynet)

 

[Jman8]

Still, I feel that Provari comes closer to justifying the asking price than the majority of $200+ authentic shiny tubes. ( no, I don't own one ).

To me an ecig is a commodity. If I get a years use out of a device then it has well justified the $20 or $30 expenditure. The way this industry is growing, nearly everything we're using today will be obsolete in 3 to 5 years. The idea of an "investment" in a shiny tube, hoping it won't loose value in 10 years is ludicrous. Buy one if it brings you pleasure to own one. But to claim it's a wise financial "investment " is silly.

I bought my Provari for $20. Comes with a lifetime warranty. I've only had to replace it about 7 times so far in 3 years.