Average Lifespan Ego Batt?

[IOU]

I have read from many of the suppliers that the batteries (built in battery types) are good for approximate 300 charges. If this is true then one year is a very realistic goal. I am sure though like everything else, some are better, some worse, than others.
One member here said it best in my opinion:
Your atty is always trying to kill your battery and your battery is always trying to kill your attys. Ultimately, one of them will win.

 

[gypsymage777]

I have heard that the memory issues are mainly on older batteries. I am not as vigilant as I used to be on charging, but I always keep it in mind just in case. Doesn't hurt to be cautious.

 

[Tol]

found Li-Ion Batteries, dunno what to think about which way to treat them.
Anyway hopefully the OP gets an idea from comments here on how long a typical battery will last. That being said, ALWAYS have a spare battery or two around.

 

[Rosa]

...That being said, ALWAYS have a spare battery or two around.

Awesome advice either way.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Thanks for all the helpful info. Seems to me that they will in fact last quite a while before they are dead. Just trying to get as much info as I can....plus i have to post 5 times before i can move out of this beginners forum.

 

[Zen~]

We've had our Riva batts since September and our eGo batts since October. All are still going strong. I have no idea how many times they've been charged, but I'd be willing to guess it's been over 300 times each.

That's roughly 125 days of use... you charge each of these batteries over twice per day?

 

[Zen~]

OK... rechargeable batteries basic, rule of thumb 101. Rechargeable batteries WILL develop a "memory" based on charge-discharge states. You can significantly reduce the useful charge life by "short charging". If you shorten the charge-discharge cycle by charging a partially charged battery or not allowing a battery to recharge fully before use. There are chargers that advertise they won't let this happen. In real world applications I find they reduce the damage but don't eliminate it. The best way to get the longest useful life from a rechargeable battery is to use it until it indicates a charge is required and then to fully charge it before reuse.

SOME batteries such as NiCad and some others have this issue, however, a quote from Wikipedia "Lithium-ion batteries are common in consumer electronics. They are one of the most popular types of rechargeable battery for portable electronics, with one of the best energy densities, no memory effect, and a slow loss of charge when not in use."

Your information is accurate for NiCad and some other rechargeables, but not ALL rechargeables... specifically not LiIon batteris, which is what is in an eGo.

And more importantly, you should NEVER Fully Discharge an LiIon battery if it doesn't have a protection circuit that auto-shuts off before full discharge takes place. It can and quite possibly will go boom.

I would advise a visit to the following site and learn about these batteries before offering up incorrect advice. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery

 

[Izatech]

SOME batteries such as NiCad and some others have this issue, however, a quote from Wikipedia "Lithium-ion batteries are common in consumer electronics. They are one of the most popular types of rechargeable battery for portable electronics, with one of the best energy densities, no memory effect, and a slow loss of charge when not in use."

Your information is accurate for NiCad and some other rechargeables, but not ALL rechargeables... specifically not LiIon batteris, which is what is in an eGo.

And more importantly, you should NEVER Fully Discharge an LiIon battery if it doesn't have a protection circuit that auto-shuts off before full discharge takes place. It can and quite possibly will go boom.

I would advise a visit to the following site and learn about these batteries before offering up incorrect advice. Is lithium-ion the ideal battery?

I would expect a man in your profession to read the post a little closer. I started the whole thing with, "rechargeable batteries basic, rule of thumb 101". That should indicate to any semi-intelligent reader that it is not an all inclusive directive on how to treat every battery.

I didn't tell anyone to fully discharge any battery. I told them to use it until it indicates a charge is required. There are a number of ways that happens. I would expect users to read the instructions and pay attention to the type they are using. Fact is, lithium ion batteries are supposed to have limiting circuitry to keep consumers safe in determining when they need to be recharged and when they ARE fully charged. Even what charger to use. Chances are, if one blows up on you, you're probably misapplying its use.

As to memory development and useful charge delivery, my experience with lithium ion differs from Wikipedia's statements. 20+ years of real world experience, as I clearly stated.

I would advise a visit to the reading comprehension class before you offer up inaccurate criticisms.

 

[N2rock]

As to memory development and useful charge delivery, my experience with lithium ion differs from Wikipedia's statements. 20+ years of real world experience, as I clearly stated. .

I have to agree with this. My experience with lithium ion batteries has shown that they do develop a memory. Maybe not as quickly as nicads do, but over time they do build a memory.

I have a new question I want to throw out here: Is there any danger in leaving an eGo battery on a charger overnight? I know "smart chargers" will peak a battery and then (if left on) will continuously re-cycle it. This little USB charger does not look like it could pack the electronics necessary to be a smart charger. Anyone know?

 

[Zen~]

I would expect a man in your profession to read the post a little closer. I started the whole thing with, "rechargeable batteries basic, rule of thumb 101". That should indicate to any semi-intelligent reader that it is not an all inclusive directive on how to treat every battery.

I didn't tell anyone to fully discharge any battery. I told them to use it until it indicates a charge is required. There are a number of ways that happens. I would expect users to read the instructions and pay attention to the type they are using. Fact is, lithium ion batteries are supposed to have limiting circuitry to keep consumers safe in determining when they need to be recharged and when they ARE fully charged. Even what charger to use. Chances are, if one blows up on you, you're probably misapplying its use.

As to memory development and useful charge delivery, my experience with lithium ion differs from Wikipedia's statements. 20+ years of real world experience, as I clearly stated.

I would advise a visit to the reading comprehension class before you offer up inaccurate criticisms.

That wasn't very nice, and there's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. I still contend my criticism is pretty much on target here.

Nobody has 20+ years of real world experience working with LiIon batteries in the field. I'm sure you have that much experience with other rechargeable batteries, but not THESE types... You simply cannot apply a "rechargeable batteries 101" statement that covers all types of battery chemistry. Even though there was a great deal of research being done starting in the 70's, these batteries were not in widespread commercial use prior to 1996 or so... Lithium NON rechargeables pre date, but not LiIon. Further, since this thread is about eGo batteries, one would HOPE, at least, that your generic batteries 101 statement would have been intended for this audience, but as it pertains to THIS application, your comments and statements of fact regarding memory effect are absolutely without merit of any kind.

The fact is, LiIon batteries do not experience memory effect in any way... what you are likely observing and incorrectly calling memory effect is most likely caused by the fact that, over time, the cell's capacity diminishes.

The charging process forms deposits inside the electrolyte that inhibit ion transport, raising the internal resistance of the cell. This increase in internal resistance reduces the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications such as eCigs. The decrease in capacity means that older batteries do not charge as much as new ones, and no, this is not the same thing as memory effect and it is not caused by "short charging", it's a function of the chemistry which cannot be avoided. This is caused by charging in any form, short, long... it's all the same. The more it has been on the charger, the higher the internal resistance and the lower the capacity.

When it comes to the life of a LiIon cell there is a solid argument for intentionally under charging LiIon cells. In military applications they routinely charge to 3.92 V because it extends the life of the cell rather dramatically. Under-charging many types of rechargeables would induce irreversible damage, AKA Memory effect. This is not the case with LiIon.

 

[IOU]

That wasn't very nice, and there's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. I still contend my criticism is pretty much on target here.

Nobody has 20+ years of real world experience working with LiIon batteries in the field. I'm sure you have that much experience with other rechargeable batteries, but not THESE types... You simply cannot apply a "rechargeable batteries 101" statement that covers all types of battery chemistry. Even though there was a great deal of research being done starting in the 70's, these batteries were not in widespread commercial use prior to 1996 or so... Lithium NON rechargeables pre date, but not LiIon. Further, since this thread is about eGo batteries, one would HOPE, at least, that your generic batteries 101 statement would have been intended for this audience, but as it pertains to THIS application, your comments and statements of fact regarding memory effect are absolutely without merit of any kind.

The fact is, LiIon batteries do not experience memory effect in any way... what you are likely observing and incorrectly calling memory effect is most likely caused by the fact that, over time, the cell's capacity diminishes.

The charging process forms deposits inside the electrolyte that inhibit ion transport, raising the internal resistance of the cell. This increase in internal resistance reduces the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications such as eCigs. The decrease in capacity means that older batteries do not charge as much as new ones, and no, this is not the same thing as memory effect and it is not caused by "short charging", it's a function of the chemistry which cannot be avoided. This is caused by charging in any form, short, long... it's all the same. The more it has been on the charger, the higher the internal resistance and the lower the capacity.

When it comes to the life of a LiIon cell there is a solid argument for intentionally under charging LiIon cells. In military applications they routinely charge to 3.92 V because it extends the life of the cell rather dramatically. Under-charging many types of rechargeables would induce irreversible damage, AKA Memory effect. This is not the case with LiIon.

Very nice Zen! This man definitely speaks the truth and knows his batts!

 

[N2rock]

The fact is, LiIon batteries do not experience memory effect in any way... what you are likely observing and incorrectly calling memory effect is most likely caused by the fact that, over time, the cell's capacity diminishes.

.

Call it what you want. The end result is the same- a diminished ability to full charge which = less usable time. It may not be memory affect, but it still equals the same result in the end. Right?

Now does anyone know the answer to my question:
I have a new question I want to throw out here: Is there any danger in leaving an eGo battery on a charger overnight? I know "smart chargers" will peak a battery and then (if left on) will continuously re-cycle it. This little USB charger does not look like it could pack the electronics necessary to be a smart charger. Anyone know?

 

[Lightgeoduck]

Call it what you want. The end result is the same- a diminished ability to full charge which = less usable time. It may not be memory affect, but it still equals the same result in the end. Right?

Now does anyone know the answer to my question:
I have a new question I want to throw out here: Is there any danger in leaving an eGo battery on a charger overnight? I know "smart chargers" will peak a battery and then (if left on) will continuously re-cycle it. This little USB charger does not look like it could pack the electronics necessary to be a smart charger. Anyone know?

First to answer your new question.. No there should be no harm in leaving an ego battery or any other ecig battery on a charger over night. This goes for basic PROTECTED Li-ion batteries as well.. since there is circuitry in the battery itself that prevents overcharging.. Unprotected batteries are a different story....

Now this doesn't eliminate the possibility of a faulty product causing problems... but I am sure if there is something faulty you will find out way before the night is over...

A good safety precaution for anything be recharged is to not to leave it unattended (don't need to watch it, just don't go on vacation with a battery in a charger ). Just to cover it again.. even though that isn't directly related to your second question.. once a Li-ion is charged it is ready.. so no need to leave it charging too long, well that is of course you are charging them right before you go to bed..

As far as your first question about memory affect vs. diminished ability being the same.. well Yes basicly you are right as an end result, but the means to the end are different. If you are not attentive on your charging habits with batteries that are prone to developing a memory one could shorten the life of their battery prematurely.. And yes granted Lithium-ions need proper attention as well, they can with stand multiple charges and any stage of discharge unlike the prior mentioned battery types.


LGD

 

[Lightgeoduck]

Oh I would also like to add to this thread in general, that it is not advisable to lash out with insults, there is a way to handle disagreements in a more civil manner. Plus it will eliminate the need for staff involvement..


Thank you

LGD

 

[DaveP]

I agree with Zen completely and also with what LightGeoDuck said. There's no justifiable reason to quarrel over something we can all Google and discover on our own.

The only thing I can add to what Zen said is that Li-Ion batts prefer to be stored in a semi-charged state rather than a full charge. That's why they are partially charged when you get them new.

Theoretically, overnight charging is fine. There is a potential problem with circuitry failure that can result in overcharging up to the point of a POP! Cell phones of today use the same technology in batteries as Ecigs. You'll notice that a charger produces warmth while charging and cools to room temperature when charging is complete. Current flow virtually stops when this happens and the charger and battery are not experiencing current flow at this point, so, yes, you can leave them on charge all night. I generally disconnect them when the light turns green just to eliminate the possibility that an electronic failure could occur. I sleep better that way.

 

[uba egar320]

I'd go with what Zen says about batteries any day.

 

[sprink0281]

I had my battery on the charger for about 17 hours yesterday and when I took it off the charger the battery was cool. So my conclusion is that yes the charger stop charging when the battery has a full charge. On another note if you notice when the battery is drained on the ego the light flashes several times and stops working until you charge it. I'm sure there is still some juice left but the circuitry in the battery prevents it from draining completely. I know this has been mentioned but I just wanted to reiterate what was said by a personal experience with this particular setup......

 

[Zen~]

The only thing I can add to what Zen said is that Li-Ion batts prefer to be stored in a semi-charged state rather than a full charge. That's why they are partially charged when you get them new.

Oh yes... that's a great and important point! (and creates a strong argument AGAINST "topping them off" periodically)

When a LiIon battery is stored at room temperature at full charge it will irreversibly lose 18-20% of it's capacity per year. It loses less at lower temps and the loss is greater at higher temps. A LiIon battery stored at 100 Degrees loses roughly 33% of it's capacity per year. If you ever plan to store these long term (years), Get them to 90% charge and put them in a cool basement with a silica gel pack to buck the humidity.

 

[N2rock]

Thanks for the replies! The reason I even asked is because I have two eGo batteries, the wife has one. And we only have one charger (the USB charger). I typically run both of mine down thru the day. Likewise she runs hers down. So come evening, we typically have 2 batteries needing charged, and we can't get both charged before bedtime. We didn't want to damage them by leaving them on a charger overnight.

 

[ncargrl]

Thank you for the "short charging information-and answering my question on storing batteries for future use.