Basic battery fact needed

[rurwin]

*shrug* It is what it is. It's tear resistance isn't great, but it isn't horrible. I wouldn't use any sort of rubber for a washer TBH. Even made-for-purpose anti-vibration spacers have bonded metal bits to avoid tearing forces being applied to the compound.

 

[wizardofozone]

In a 'wad' it's strong and more 'rubbery' and good for places it will be hidden. you're right though it is not in competition with Instamorph which is an entirely non rubbery and very hard product when cool. I must say though Instamorph is probably one of the few items that literally ... i do mean literally, can be run over by a car when its fully cooled. It's more like nylon than any type of plastic .

 

[wizardofozone]

Here is a 2200 vv EGO-II
I'm not sure if this will meet your needs but an extra 200mah might get you closer
EGO-II 2200mAh Battery - Red - VV TWIST Version

People must love these, reviews are good and they are out of every color except putrid green, but for the price and low shipping I bought one and really like the 3 color power left indicator function .... It won't just be an extra 200 Mah as you posted, ... I've been struggling with the original 900 Mahs that come with the Majestic ARO kits, so adding 3 or 4 of these to my current backup of six 900mah winders should not only keep me in batteries, but 2 of these 2200's should get me at least 10 hours minimum I'm betting ...

 

[ian-field]

Here is a 2200 vv EGO-II
I'm not sure if this will meet your needs but an extra 200mah might get you closer
EGO-II 2200mAh Battery - Red - VV TWIST Version

Not sure whether this will get censored - but I've found that cells obtained strapped as parallel pairs are greater than the sum of the parts, that is to say a pair of 2.1Ah cells work better than a single (allegedly) 5.2Ah cell.

This is a common way of thinking in the design of fast switching SMPSUs, multiple parallel electrolytic capacitors have significantly lower ESR than one big one.

 

[wizardofozone]

I have had this debate with rc plane batteries and although I cannot wrap my mind around it i'm of the same opinion ... Because of weight restrictions in rc flying ganged batteries are not all that effective but the running times do seem to be better ganged than with the same power in a single lipo ... I've sometimes gussed that burst heat helps kill a single cell faster than ganged ones .. BTW, when I posted above that "two of these 2200's should give me about 10 hours" I just meant using one after the other singly, I did not mean I intended to gang ... I've screwed around with RC lipos too much to want to go that homebuilt (and usually 'Rube Goldberg') end result with something I'm putting right up to my face ... If 4 or 5 of these 2200's don't solve the irritating recharging routine than I'm just going to something big ,heavy, and bulky in a box or Provari style .... I'm getting a solid 3 hours each from 900 winder so I don't think it's going to be too hard to get at minimum 5 or more hours from one 2200Mah and I'd rather recharge 3 of those a day than six or seven 900 winders ...

 

[ian-field]

I have had this debate with rc plane batteries and although I cannot wrap my mind around it i'm of the same opinion ... Because of weight restrictions in rc flying ganged batteries are not all that effective but the running times do seem to be better ganged than with the same power in a single lipo ... I've sometimes gussed that burst heat helps kill a single cell faster than ganged ones .. BTW, when I posted above that "two of these 2200's should give me about 10 hours" I just meant using one after the other singly, I did not mean I intended to gang ... I've screwed around with RC lipos too much to want to go that homebuilt (and usually 'Rube Goldberg') end result with something I'm putting right up to my face ... If 4 or 5 of these 2200's don't solve the irritating recharging routine than I'm just going to something big ,heavy, and bulky in a box or Provari style .... I'm getting a solid 3 hours each from 900 winder so I don't think it's going to be too hard to get at minimum 5 or more hours from one 2200Mah and I'd rather recharge 3 of those a day than six or seven 900 winders ...

Strapped cells are better for instantaneous peak current draw - for total capacity in a given volume, a stack of round cells have lots of gaps (fresh air) in between. The flexible pouch lithium cells don't have to be round, so one big cell can be pretty much in the shape of the space available.

 

[rurwin]

Not sure whether this will get censored - but I've found that cells obtained strapped as parallel pairs are greater than the sum of the parts, that is to say a pair of 2.1Ah cells work better than a single (allegedly) 5.2Ah cell.

This is a common way of thinking in the design of fast switching SMPSUs, multiple parallel electrolytic capacitors have significantly lower ESR than one big one.

In a parallel arrangement, you're putting the internal resistances in parallel, so they will be halved. Or to think of it another way, the voltage drop is the internal resistance times the current; in a parallel configuration the current through each resistance is halved and so the voltage drop will be halved compared to a single cell sourcing all the current.

 

[ian-field]

In a parallel arrangement, you're putting the internal resistances in parallel, so they will be halved. Or to think of it another way, the voltage drop is the internal resistance times the current; in a parallel configuration the current through each resistance is halved and so the voltage drop will be halved compared to a single cell sourcing all the current.

You'd think that one big cell with its larger plate area would also have proportionately lower internal resistance, but apparently it doesn't work like that with the electrolytic capacitors smoothing the ripple in a SMPSU - multiple parallel electolytics have lower ESR than one big one.

As far as I can see, that way of thinking has some similarity where lithium cells are concerned.

 

[wizardofozone]

OK, the 2200 mAh's in ugly green arrived ... I do not believe one can stick to a pen style and sans a digital viewing screen,get any more serious than this setup with a 5 ml pyrex clearo. Less charging in any one day I feel certain but I must admit I feel like a cross between Dr. Who, Harry Potter, and Glenda the good witch of Oz carrying this giant RoboCop style nightstick around ...

I guess you can also add night safety in with this purchase because if you hit someone with what feels like a lead core pipe I'm sure you'd kill them ....

Nothing anywhere on the site nor in the box on what to set the winder to for charging but I'm going to stick with the winder preference for 900mAah's at 4.2 ... Please let me know if I should be setting these greenies higher . Madvapes has this unusual caution note to turn their winders to 4.2 "to protect charger and battery" ... But discount vapers has no such directions for these 2200 mAh's ... Apparantly charger input can be overwhelmed bby Madvapes battery builds, it's the only thing I can think of for such a caution notice on all of their winders ...

 

[rurwin]

[pedant]Arrrrgh! A Mah (mega-are hour) is 34749 square-mile hours. The capitalisation matters.[/pedant]

I don't understand what you mean by 900mAh. That's a measure of battery capacity, not charging rate. The normal eGo chargers use 420mA at 4.2V. That should be safe, and it's probably what the battery is designed for, although it will take a long time to charge -- in excess of five hours. It may be possible to use a higher current. If that was an external battery you could charge it at up to 2000mA. But I would not advise that unless you had the datasheet/manual for it, and you probably can't find a charger that would fit.

 

[wizardofozone]

[pedant]Arrrrgh! A Mah (mega-are hour) is 34749 square-mile hours. The capitalisation matters.[/pedant]

I don't understand what you mean by 900mAh. That's a measure of battery capacity, not charging rate. The normal eGo chargers use 420mA at 4.2V. That should be safe, and it's probably what the battery is designed for, although it will take a long time to charge -- in excess of five hours. It may be possible to use a higher current. If that was an external battery you could charge it at up to 2000mA. But I would not advise that unless you had the datasheet/manual for it, and you probably can't find a charger that would fit.

I understand all of that but since my backround is with flying giant sailplanes and charging with large variable input Lipo and Lyon chargers, I just respected and shrugged it off when nearly every MADVAPES site winder battery cautions under their battery listings to "turn the winders to 4.2 to protect both battery and charger"

(their words not mine) You are certainly right and I agree with you but being new to vaping and to these tiny Lipos I thought I should also ask about these new 2200's since unlike Madvapes, Discount Vapers uses no such 4.2 cautions on their site.

I have no idea why Madvapes does ... perhaps the trouble is with their batteries or the small toy like chargers packed in with the Majestic ARO kits they sell which is all their own product I believe.

Even their videos talk about turning the battery dials to 4.2 ... I have no idea, but on the other hand I can tell you sailplane horror stories about charging giant lipos and Lyons under too much voltage and watching them turn from rectangles to rubber coated balls (and I apologize that I have somehow seemed to have irritated you ... ) mAh ... there ya go ...

 

[rurwin]

4.2V is right. Any more than that and you'll damage them. They may be able to take more current though.

 

[ian-field]

[pedant]Arrrrgh! A Mah (mega-are hour) is 34749 square-mile hours. The capitalisation matters.[/pedant]

I don't understand what you mean by 900mAh. That's a measure of battery capacity, not charging rate. The normal eGo chargers use 420mA at 4.2V. That should be safe, and it's probably what the battery is designed for, although it will take a long time to charge -- in excess of five hours. It may be possible to use a higher current. If that was an external battery you could charge it at up to 2000mA. But I would not advise that unless you had the datasheet/manual for it, and you probably can't find a charger that would fit.

Charging current is usually expressed as C/n - as an example; nickel chemistry batteries might be safely float charged at C/20, which is 1/20th of the Ah capacity printed on the label.

Not too sure what rules apply with lithium cells - but most battery chemistry types won't supply the stated current for 1 hour - its actually measured as the capacity delivered over a 10 hour period.

AFAIK - some lithium cells can be charged at greater than C/1 - the important thing is not to exceed the stated terminal voltage - not even by a few %!

 

[rurwin]

Invariably, lithium cells like the 18650 et al have a rated charge current of C. That does not necessarily apply to EGO-type batteries which are invariably charged at 420mA, that being C for the smallest of them and just under the highest current that can be reliably sourced from a computer's USB socket.

 

[ian-field]

Invariably, lithium cells like the 18650 et al have a rated charge current of C. That does not necessarily apply to EGO-type batteries which are invariably charged at 420mA, that being C for the smallest of them and just under the highest current that can be reliably sourced from a computer's USB socket.

In my collection is a KIK ego battery rated at 650mAh and a Liberty Flights ego battery that is probably at least 1100mAh - I don't think the mere presence of an ego thread magically dictates the capacity rating or recommended charge current.

Each physical size of battery will have a maximum recommended charge rate - but the most important thing remains not to exceed the stated terminal voltage, which is the same regardless of size or connector thread.

 

[rurwin]

In my collection is a KIK ego battery rated at 650mAh and a Liberty Flights ego battery that is probably at least 1100mAh - I don't think the mere presence of an ego thread magically dictates the capacity rating or recommended charge current.

I'm sure it doesn't, but you won't find out what that charge current is unless you open them up and find a datasheet for the particular cell they use. EGO batteries are designed to be charged with EGO chargers. With few exceptions all EGO batteries use the same chargers: 420mA and 4.2V. Whether they could accept more than 420mA is moot, unless one is into doing the required deconstruction and research, and building a DIY charger. The manufacturer will only tell you to use the correct or supplied charger, and that will be 420mA.

I quite agree that the 4.2V bit is invariable and highly important. Even 50mV more will damage the battery.

 

[wizardofozone]

Here is a 2200 vv EGO-II
I'm not sure if this will meet your needs but an extra 200mah might get you closer
EGO-II 2200mAh Battery - Red - VV TWIST Version

Wow, Runamok I cannot thank you enough for that link up site .... Bought 3 of these and they have made all 6 of my 900mAh winders needless and are just backups now on the back row of my vaper box .... I love the size, and the winder dials click in place to the major voltages and has ended that irritating losing of settings on non click stop winder dials ... I have been using just one nearly all day long and I'm a vaper from hell chainer ... The turning colors from 100% to 50, 50% to 25, and then the flashing red for charging is just super ... Love these things ! ... And thank God they have new stock so the third order is in silver, trust me you do not want these green ones ! ( I also ordered Discount's inline ohm, watt, and volt digital screen tester which goes inline between the battery and the regular clearo ... Which is sure to give everyone the impression that I'm walking around all day and strangely .... carrying a Popiel Pocket Fisherman for no apparant reason !

 

[ian-field]

I'm sure it doesn't, but you won't find out what that charge current is unless you open them up and find a datasheet for the particular cell they use. EGO batteries are designed to be charged with EGO chargers. With few exceptions all EGO batteries use the same chargers: 420mA and 4.2V. Whether they could accept more than 420mA is moot, unless one is into doing the required deconstruction and research, and building a DIY charger. The manufacturer will only tell you to use the correct or supplied charger, and that will be 420mA.

I quite agree that the 4.2V bit is invariable and highly important. Even 50mV more will damage the battery.

Since a large proportion of e-cig charging adapters run off a USB power supply, the basic specifications of that dictate what current is available for charging.

Officially - the original specification states the USB port should be capable of supplying 100mA, but any attached device can negotiate for up to 500mA.

In practice, most USB ports will supply the full 500mA without negotiation these days. If I bought a USB wall-wart, I'd expect at least 500mA, I've seen units on shop shelves claiming 2.1A or so.

Presumably, most e-cig manufacturers stick to the 500mA limit unless they include a higher rated wall-wart in the package.

 

[rurwin]

The USB spec includes specifications for power supplies, which don't communicate and are allowed to go above 500mA.

In practice, I think every EGO charger supplies (upto) 420mA, without exception. I'd be interested if anyone has a counter-example.

 

[ian-field]

The USB spec includes specifications for power supplies, which don't communicate and are allowed to go above 500mA.

In practice, I think every EGO charger supplies (upto) 420mA, without exception. I'd be interested if anyone has a counter-example.

Don't forget - they have to aim for not exceeding 500mA when the cell is at a low state (about 2.75V or thereabouts), all the chargers I've seen so far are nothing more than a current limiting resistor and a simple transistor circuit to control a bi-colour LED for charge indication. As the cell terminal voltage rises - the current falls.