Battery Info for the Chuck
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Weird, I flipped the charger over (guess I had it upside down) and now it is charging...thanks
it's not so much that they get "optimistic" with their mAh ratings as it is they get "creative" with how they measure mah...
My first concern is are they protected or Fully protected?
As far as being true to their numbers we also have to take into consideration the C ratings of batteries... Ultrafires have a C rating of 1.5C, AW depending on which battery it is has a C rating of 2, 8, or 10 (the IMR high drain 16340 is a C rating of 8)...
so at maximum discharge (before any damage is caused to the battery)
those Ultrafires are capable of a continuous output of 1800mA for 40min...
and the AW a continuous discharge of 4400mA for 7.5min...
so now it comes down to the atty you're using and the amp draw and whether it exceeds the max drain of the battery...
so for instance a joye 510 atty: 1610mA draw(*on a fully charged battery the amp draw is 1830mA)
those ultrafires:
almost at max drain of 1800mA so possibly stressing the batteries...but:
1610(amp draw)/1200(mAh rating)=1.34C -> 60(min in an amp hour)/1.34 (C rate)= 44.78min...or 2686seconds (however long it takes you to break it up and use it)
The AW battery:
well below the 4400mA max drain so minimal battery stress...thus maintaining battery cycle life..but:
1610/550=2.93C ... 60/2.93...20.44min...or 1228sec...
So with a joye 510 atty the ultrafire is almost exactly double...but with a side order of stressing the batteries way more..which over the life of the battery will cut down on it's capacity and ability to hold a charge..
Now for comparison lets look at say a LR atty...2470mA draw...
Max on those UF...1800mA....ut oh amp draw is over the max drain rate...definite damage to the battery...same math as before though lasts about 873sec
AW max drain was 4400mA...so amp draw still well under the max drain..but the math shows it should last about 801 seconds
So with a LR atty the UFs are overstressed thus cutting down on duty cycles and not a huge difference in the amount of time in useable charge...
NOTE: so increase in resistance of atty or carto...the lower the Amp draw...so...the more time you'll get out of the battery...
For some reason I want to recall that Poeia likes the 901 atty...the least demanding of the atties
Amp draw of a 901 at 3.7V... 1000mA
UF battery: 4337sec
AW battery: 1978sec
*My battery recommendations have always been based on a worst case senario/most demand you're gonna throw at them kinda thing for minimal stress to the battery to maintain duty cycle and to avoid possible overstress situations to maximize safety
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You may want to recall that, but you'd be wrong. I started with 801s and added 510s a few weeks later. Since getting my Chuck it's been all 510 because two different adapters killed some of my 801s. (I'm thinking about selling my unused 801s to fund buying more 510s.)
I did buy 2 901s to try them. So, as of 3 days ago I can no longer say I've never tried a 901.
lol ok...I just rembered a post about a bunch of atties of different colors and color coordinating and matching things and big orders from HC (I thought) must have been 801s when I thought they were 901s...my apologies for remembering that wrong...
Hey Drozd, you want to analyze mine? I run 7.4 v at all times( 2x18350 @ 1200 mah).I'm using HV attys I got from China at 5.6 ohms. I get huge clouds and just blew my first atty after almost 8 weeks. I never even cleaned it because I wanted to see how tuff it was. Also I only drip using Super T's and VG and take as long a draw as I can. I sent Jeff 2 of them but the last I heard he still had not tried them. I got in 60 more today. I reordered as soon as I saw they were lasting longer than any I had tried before. Wanted to get some more before the quality dropped. I fired up one of the new one's this morning just to see if they were as good quality and they seem to be just fine.
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those sound like the 3.7V LiFePo4 batteries from EM....right?
if that be the case
5.6Ω at 7.4V is an amp draw of 1.32A (1320mA)
those batteries if the ones I'm thinking of and EM and their manufacturer is being 100% honest about em they have a 10C rating on them (and actually a 30C pulse discharge rating supposedly)
so....we're looking at:
1320/1200=1.1C...60min/1.1C= 54.55min or roughly 3272sec
if that be the case
5.6Ω at 7.4V is an amp draw of 1.32A (1320mA)
those batteries if the ones I'm thinking of and EM and their manufacturer is being 100% honest about em they have a 10C rating on them (and actually a 30C pulse discharge rating supposedly)
so....we're looking at:
1320/1200=1.1C...60min/1.1C= 54.55min or roughly 3272sec
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Ah...I missed the 18350...for some reason I read it as 16340...my apologies
numbers should stay the same...still an amp draw of 1.32A...the calculations as far as time should still be good...only difference is the max drain rate on those batteries changes to <1.8A... it's getting close to the max drain rate but still not exceeding it even when the batteries are fully charged....I'd imagine that they're taking some stress and abuse but not being overstressed..
Believe it or not, I don't even run them down even with the heavy vaping for around 14 hours a day. They are really tough. And love the 5.6 ohm clouds, unbelievable.
right thats 55 min if you held the button down continuous...so it comes down to how long you hold the button down and how often you hit it..it's very likely that that 55 min could last over 14 hours when you're breaking it up into drags that are a few seconds long..
Found this on another supplier's website:
"Please note that the 3000mAh capacity is overrated though. That battery is designed to power some LED’s with a power consumption of 100-200mAh.
An atomizer has a power consumption of 1000-2000mAh so that battery will have a perceived capacity of around 2000-2200mAh and you will not get the best experience.
I suggest that you also try the new LiMN AW IMR18650 battery or at least the standard 2400mA versions from Trustfire or Ultrafire.
Remember to always use the protected batteries!"
So, is he saying that the mAh rating has to do with something other than how long it lasts between charges? I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff, but that's how I read it. Am I wrong? Is he wrong?
"Please note that the 3000mAh capacity is overrated though. That battery is designed to power some LED’s with a power consumption of 100-200mAh.
An atomizer has a power consumption of 1000-2000mAh so that battery will have a perceived capacity of around 2000-2200mAh and you will not get the best experience.
I suggest that you also try the new LiMN AW IMR18650 battery or at least the standard 2400mA versions from Trustfire or Ultrafire.
Remember to always use the protected batteries!"
So, is he saying that the mAh rating has to do with something other than how long it lasts between charges? I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff, but that's how I read it. Am I wrong? Is he wrong?
Shortish answer is yes... it also has to do with the max drain rate of the battery (how fast it can be discharged) versus the amp draw of the atty/voltage combo (how quickly it wants to discharge that battery)
so if a battery has a max drain of say <55mA but the atty is trying to draw 1.6A the battery gets overstressed
and if a battery is overstressed or ran at max drain or very close to max drain it damages the cell which can effect it's capacity and the # of times it can be recharged
EDIT: is he wrong? well sorta yes and no..the amp draw at 3.7V is about 1A (for the 901 atty) to 2.47A (for an 1.5Ω LR atty)
As far as the 18650 batteries go they really overcome the possible problem of amp draw exceeding max drain by sheer virtue of their high mAh ratings... the LiMN high drain batteries in this size really are overkill..
heres the 2 math problems that you can see things for yourself:
Max drain on a battery: mAh rating * C rating /1000
and amp draw: voltage/ resistance
* as a note with 18650size, *fire batteries have a C rating of 1.5C, AW batteries 2C, AW LiMN 10C
so a 3000mAh UF battery has a max drain rate of 4.5A
a 2200mAh AW battery has a max drain rate of 4.4A
and a 1600mAh AW LiMN has a max drain of 16A
and the worst we're gonna ask for is 2.47A....so there's no reason for 16A....expecially when it'll come at the cost of how long the battery can be run for...
the last bit of math:
given that we know the amp draw 2.47A (2470mA) and the max drain of the batteries...and the mAh rating...we can figure out the "C" that we're draining it at and how long it'll last..
remember that mAh is miliamp hour so that C rating in that mAh*C/1000 give the max it can be drained but by dividing 60(min in an hour) by the C rating will also tell you how long it lasts continuous...so in the case of 18650 batteries specifically the higher the mAh the longer the battery will last...
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Thanks Drozd. Bottom line, would the 2200mAh AW batt be a good match for my 510 Big Chuck? Would it perform better than my UltraFire 3000 mAh?
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Overall it's a better choice because of the C rating difference between ultra's and AW. However, the UF will last a little longer per charge, and depending on your choice of atomizer, would affect how well it works under stress.
As far as the data given for the AW 2200mAh, it's the safest performer.
As far as what we know about the UF 3000mAh, it, given the correct mAh, would be the longest performer, but depending on battery stress could vent/lose recharge cycles over time. Making the AW a more versatile choice in the long run.
I've already ordered the AW 18650 2200mAh for my big chuck when it comes in, I prefer a reliable solution over a theoretically worst case scenario, but that's the pessimist in me. Some folks use the UF 3k version and have no problems, while having their battery life last for 2 days.
You probably won't. But you'll have to buy more eventually so you never know. Plenty of folks have chimed in praising the 3kmAh ones, and considering the amount of time you spend actually finishing the circuit to activate them, the likelyhood of venting is very minimal. The only major concern is whether the stress reduces overall life.
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