BEHOLD: The absolute perfect tobacco flavoring and nicotine extraction method.

[duncantiv]

For my observation, I'll just say that I am soaking 6 Camel Snus in a mixture of PG and VG. I was running a little bit low on PG, so I thought I would mix them, but I didn't want to use straight VG because I might be a little sensitive to it. Just coincidentally, I put the PG in first and then the VG on top. When I put the Snus in, I noticed that the top VG layer was turning very dark, and the PG layer on the bottom wasn't doing anything. Apparently the VG was MUCH better at getting the Snus juice out. Of course, the whole mixture is dark brown now, since I tipped the glass in order to mix them.

If you get a chance, read Faethe's blog. She has been experimenting with a hot extraction method where things get heated and boiled before letting them sit to ferment, where it sounds like you're talking about the cold extraction method. I want to try the hot extraction soon, as it seems like you get more nicotine along with the flavour, whereas my experiments with cold extraction seem to yield flavour but little nicotine.

Regarding the nicotine content of 20mL of fluid with 6 Snus in it, we have to get into gram/millileter conversion, which is thankfully easy. Liters are a measure of volume, whereas grams are a measure of weight. One millileter of fluid (one cubic centimeter) is basically equal to one gram (one thousand milligrams) in weight when measuring water. Granted, water is slightly less dense than PG or VG, but I don't think it is significant enough to really worry too much about for the time being. So, if you figure 20mL as 20,000mg, then 66mg is 0.33%. Given that eliquid and Snus nicotine content is labeled in terms of milligrams per gram, 0.33% should be equal to 3.3mg/g, which is lower than the lowest eliquid sold. The Oden high-nic Snus are labeled as having 17mg/g (about 55% higher than the estimate for the Camels), so therefore could produce, at most, 5.1mg/g nicotine content.

All of this, of course, is based on 6 Snus/20mL of liquid. We are also assuming that one American Camel Snus has 11mg nicotine content (which touches on my frustration with the lack of data on American Camel Snus), and you are able to extract all of it through whatever method you are using.

If somebody out there is better at math/chemistry/the metric system than I am, please feel free to correct any of the statements I have made.

EDIT: Somebody please doublecheck my math. According to my numbers, the 50mL batch of tincture Faethe made should result in a liquid with 2mg/g nicotine content, which is WAY off from the way it felt to her when she vaped it, as described in her blog.

 

[bearscreek]

Actually, I believe you're right. At least, you're coming up with close to what I had estimated, and the problem with Camel Snus is that I think it actually only has 6 mg of nicotine, which makes the figure roughly half of what you may have been thinking - really no replacement for the juice most people want.

By the way, I did heat my solution. I think that was only 3 days ago, but I went ahead and filtered it tonight and tasted it. It really kicks your tongue, but I had the Camel Frost, so it could have been the mint on my tongue. It seemed like more than that, though. If you like the taste of such a thing, it vapes just fine. I just wouldn't count on much nicotine (even with the Swedish).

 

[duncantiv]

I really need to try the heat extraction.

*looks around at materials on-hand*

Hmmm....

 

[AngeLsLuv]

How about giving this a try.
Make your eliquid, and add ground to a fine powder coffee and powdered creamer. Filter then smoke. Does it taste like coffee with milk?
Let me know, because every coffee flavor out there tastes like coffe bean, and I drink coffee with milk.

*Faint*... All we need is to get this figured out, and another one with the flavor of Oreo Cookies or Chip Ahoy's and we've got breakfast all figured out *Melt*...

 

[Faethe]

EDIT: Somebody please doublecheck my math. According to my numbers, the 50mL batch of tincture Faethe made should result in a liquid with 2mg/g nicotine content, which is WAY off from the way it felt to her when she vaped it, as described in her blog.

I have no idea. It does seems much stronger than that. Psychological? Don't know. I added in some tobacco absolute as flavoring but that stuff is pretty neutral I think?

 

[bearscreek]

I agree. I think the nic content would be very low, but I have to admit that my juice using Camel Snus really buzzed my tongue. I wish I hadn't accidentally bought Frost (not really knowing any better). I think anyone who likes to smoke AND likes to chew, etc., would probably like this stuff, but the taste probably isn't my cup of tea because of the wet, sweet chewing tobacco taste.

 

[Wexy]

Lol! I have my own personal shelf for mad chemistry now For my next trick, I might try a 50/50 solution of distilled water and VG to try and extract caffeine/tea taste from some PG tips. I love tea flavors Vaping them sounds like fun. You know, the thing is that yeah - the VG really is bland. Or maybe it just takes a really long time to leech stuff out with it. I can try the evaporation thing with the tea bag, meaning boil off the water so the tea goodness concentrates in the VG. I did not want to try that with nicotine because you know, if you screw up, you can poop yourself That's just not how I roll (not since I was 2 or so ).

Hi I was curious if you add any distilled water or are you using just glycerin?

 

[Faethe]

Hi I was curious if you add any distilled water or are you using just glycerin?

Just Glycerin. I cut it with some PG and a little Vodka. I am thinking distilled water would probably be better, actually. And a higher grade of alcohol, like grain or everclear.

 

[duncantiv]

Ok, redid my residue test, and this time I dug up the camera!


Here's the before pic. I did three drops each of three different liquids this time. Starting from top center and going clockwise: homebrew Oden high-nic, homebrew American Camel Snus, BestECig RY-4.

I heated the pan over a low flame. Both homebrews were completely evaporated after about 30 seconds. The RY-4 lasted for a full minute, leaving the stains pictured below:

Despite the way it looks in the pic, the Oden and Camel stains didn't appear too different to the naked eye. Something about the angle and lighting just makes it look like the Oden stain is lighter. The RY-4 "scab" was a bit less prominent than last time as well.

Now for the odd part. I let the pan thoroughly cool, then rinsed. NONE of
the stains washed away, which is almost completely different than what happened last time. I'm trying to remember my previous experiment to see if I can figure out what changed. The only thing I can think of is the cooldown period. I don't think I waited quite as long last time, which may have given the homebrew stains a little bit more time to "set". Five seconds with a scrubber sponge took care of all three stains with no issues.

My earlier conclusion may have been wrong. It looks like the homebrew juices may be harder on an atomizer than "store bought" juices. Given the cheapness of making this stuff, the cost of buying new atomizers may not be a huge issue, but the inconvenience of having to by and store bunches of them could be a serious pain. What I'd like to see, though, is how well some of our current cleaning methods work to get rid of the residue, particularly Faethe's espresso machine cleaner method. I'll be picking some up next week, so unless somebody beats me to the punch, expect some more reports at that time.

Opinions/feedback?

 

[bearscreek]

I wonder why your homebrew stuff is so pale. I guess maybe it's because you said you only used 1 Snus (I think). If you vape much of this, let us know how your atty holds up. Have you calculated how much your mixture costs to make? I'd like to try this with some Swedish, but I can't really see paying shipping to buy 1 can just to try it.

 

[duncantiv]

Basically, I've settled on a ratio of 1 Snus/half ounce of PG. It must have been a trick of the lighting again, but I didn't think it was much lighter than the RY-4.

As for vaping, I'm thinking I need to thin the mixture out a bit. It'll vape well for the first puff or two, then tapers off sharply. If I let the cig sit for a few minutes, vapor production improves for a drag or two, then drops again.

Regarding cost, it's a bit variable. (All prices are in US dollars, by the way) When I ordered my Oden and Swedish Camels, it worked out to almost $6 per can with shipping. (buysnus.com actually breaks the price down to per can when in the shopping cart) However, that was only buying one can of each; the price dropped to $2.88 per can when I put a roll of Odens in the shopping cart. Anyway, using the $6/can price, to make 1 half ounce portion of homebrew cost me about 27 cents of PG ($8.75 for a 16oz bottle at RiteAid), and 24 cents of Snus. A half ounce is equal to 14.8 millileters, rounded up, so 30 mL would cost me a little over one dollar to make. If I were to buy rolls of Snus, that cost would drop to a little under 80 cents/30mL. Given the low nicotine level of my homebrew, not every vaper is going to be able to go this cheaply, since they'll probably want to supplement with a higher nicotine, store-bought liquid. Flavouring will also increase the costs somewhat, but I haven't even begun to explore that arena. We should also probably factor in cleaning costs, just to be thorough, but that is probably extremely variable depending on the vaper, but figure your current cleaning costs should probably go up between 50 and 100% in cost.

In theory, making 30mL of homebrew should allow you to buy 2-4 extra atomizers (depending on where you shop) without paying more than you would for a 30mL bottle of store bought. That number would, of course, change depending on what other ingredients you add to your homebrew liquid.

 

[bearscreek]

Thats definitely a good price. I just hope you're not assuming that 30 mL of your homebrew would kill that many atomizers, though.

I took some of my homebrew last night and mixed 1/3 of that with 1/3 PG and 1/3 store-bought 18 mg. I added a couple of drops of coffee flavoring, and it wasn't bad at all. I have no real idea of the nic content (although obviously it was low), but I didn't find myself needing more nic. With the actual Snus content so dilute, that faint mint from the Camel Frost wasn't a problem at all. I like mint. I just didn't smoke menthols.

 

[jlvaughn75]

Wow ive got to give that a try since i got extra snus tins!

 

[duncantiv]

Thats definitely a good price. I just hope you're not assuming that 30 mL of your homebrew would kill that many atomizers, though.

I took some of my homebrew last night and mixed 1/3 of that with 1/3 PG and 1/3 store-bought 18 mg. I added a couple of drops of coffee flavoring, and it wasn't bad at all. I have no real idea of the nic content (although obviously it was low), but I didn't find myself needing more nic. With the actual Snus content so dilute, that faint mint from the Camel Frost wasn't a problem at all. I like mint. I just didn't smoke menthols.

I'm just trying to play it cautious when it comes to atomizer mortality. With proper cleaning, I don't expect the homebrew to really be more damaging than regular liquids.

That mix you made sounds pretty cool. I'm glad you found a way to hide the Frost flavour. You mention adding coffee; was this a flavouring, or a coffee-flavoured eliquid? How was vapor production with this mix?

 

[bearscreek]

Actually, the vapor of my mix is good, but occasionally it will do like you said. (It needs a rest for a minute.) This was Lorann's Keoke coffee flavor and 18 mg coffee juice from Trueman (which really isn't strong). Even with 1/3 PG, the final mix is pretty dark.

 

[duncantiv]

I just tried a 30% distilled water mix with my homebrew (no other ingredients) and it seems to have fixed the vapor issue. Overall production is a little lighter, but it's more consistent. I may try 20% next time, just to see if I can get a heavier vapor.

 

[Faethe]

I just tried a 30% distilled water mix with my homebrew (no other ingredients) and it seems to have fixed the vapor issue. Overall production is a little lighter, but it's more consistent. I may try 20% next time, just to see if I can get a heavier vapor.

I cut mine with PG, water and now I am going to get a bottle of everclear. Overall, I am very happy with this. Hah I think we have hit on something

 

[duncantiv]

I cut mine with PG, water and now I am going to get a bottle of everclear. Overall, I am very happy with this. Hah I think we have hit on something

I've seen other folks mention things like Everclear and vodka. What exactly is it for?

 

[Faethe]

I've seen other folks mention things like Everclear and vodka. What exactly is it for?

Dilution and it is rumoured to improve throat hit. I just looked and it's illegal in Florida to sell the 190 proof everclear. The most we can have is the 151 proof. The higher one is much closer to pure grain alcohol. It can really, really mess you up if you abuse it so it's restricted in some states. You can use it to make perfume and cosmetics also.

 

[tescela]

Is there a risk involved in using Everclear and/or vodka in one's e-liquid mix?