Best 18650 batteries?

[Recon Number 54]

This battery is made both protected and unprotected according to Orbtonic. Panasonic 18650 3400mah NCR18650B battery cell

These are not high drain batteries, so they are not optimized for use in regulated mods, or mechanical mods using a Kick module, or with rba/rda's.

A while back, I made the mistake of assuming that "mAh was all that mattered" and ordered 4 of these. For a while, I was impressed with my shopping abilities, my "savvy", my purchase and thought that I had "done good".

Now, thanks to the information shared here on ECF, I now understand how that was a mistake and have 4 Panasonic CGR18650CH 2250mAh 18650 replacements in rotation. Still don't know what to do with the "greenies" now.

While it wasn't exactly a "cheap lesson learned", if the batteries had malfunctioned (or worse, catastrophically failed) it could have been a MUCH more painful and expensive lesson.

 

[Baditude]

A while back, I made the mistake of assuming that "mAh was all that mattered" and ordered 4 of these. For a while, I was impressed with my shopping abilities, my "savvy", my purchase and thought that I had "done good".

Now, thanks to the information shared here on ECG, I now understand how that was a mistake and have 4 Panasonic CGR18650CH 2250mAh 18650 replacements in rotation. Still don't know what to do with the "greenies" now.

While it wasn't exactly a "cheap lesson learned", if the batteries had malfunctioned (or worse, catastrophically failed) it could have been a MUCH more painful and expensive lesson.

When we only had protected Li Ion batteries, the battery capacity (mAh rating) was the most important specification to judge a battery's quality.

Now that there are IMR and hybrid batteries, amps and continuous discharge rate is the most important specification, especially with the battery draining and amp-hungry attachments we now use.

IMR and hybrid batteries are the far better and safer class of batteries for all of our mod applications. I can think of no reason to buy or use a protected battery nowadays.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Okay, how about these specs:

http://www.78wy.com/products/18650_batteries_panasonic_3400mah_rechargeable_battery-mpz5476044-z59a6d31.html

Closer!

http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACI4000/ACI4000CE54.pdf

The energy density ratings are different from those shown at Orbtronics:

Panasonic 18650 3400mah NCR18650B battery cell

Since we know Orbtronics is an authorized Panasonic dealer, I'm inclined to trust the 2.0C rating shown on the site, even if the estimated amount of chemical goo in the cell is different.

I dunno... They're probably good batteries (they've done pretty well here in the limited use I've done), but they're probably only good in certain devices. The higher drain capacities of the PD's and CGR/CH from Panasonic are a better option across the board.

 

[RandomFellow]

I found a spec sheet from Panasonic for the NCR18650B. It looks like it likes low draws from 0.2C to 1C (0.68-3.4 Amps). At 2C, it really takes a hit on the volts.

Watts = Volts x Amps. So, for example, if you like a 10 Watt vape, if you are at 5 volts, then you would be at 2 amps discharge, which would be .588C. Since Watts = Volts^2/Resistance, you should have a 2.5 Ohm coil. If you were to reduce your coil to 1.5 Ohms, and stayed at 10 Watts or power, then you would need 3.87 volts. However, that would mean having a current of 2.58 Amps, which is .758C. Even an .8 Ohm coil at 12 Watts would only need 1.14C.

So, I think all of this high discharge stuff that people are always touting is not that necessary for electronic cigarettes. However, for those of us from the R/C hobbies, it makes more sense when your running low-wind electric motors geared up. Then again, we are using 5600 mAh LiPo batteries with 60C discharge ratings, which gives a max discharge current rating of 336 Amps!!!

 

[flowerpots]

what about these Ultra Fire 18650 3.7V 5000mAH, found them and was wondering if anyone has used them or knows if they're good quality.

I've tried 3 sets of Efest batteries (14500) from different vendors and they did not impress me. All were dead within a month's time.

 

[Baditude]

I've tried 3 sets of Efest batteries (14500) from different vendors and they did not impress me. All were dead within a month's time.

I've had the same experience with sets of Efest IMR 14500 & 18350. I have a difficult time recommending them. My personal feeling is they are of the same quality as Trustfire, Surefire, and Ultrafire, which I never recommend. I only use AW IMR and a Panasonic 18650CH.

 

[CrazyPenguin]

orbatrnic are working great so far 18650 3300mah

 

[Strontium]

Panasonic must comply with some new standards (now when Sanyo batt division is part of Panasonic industrial), so you will not see 3400mAh, or 730wh/l anymore. Have you ever asked yourself under what discharging conditions they get those mAh? If something is 3000 or 3100mAh we should know how high CC was, and under what temp. condition battery was discharged. Now, big manufacturers are getting close.
ncr18650b is excellent cell any regulated mod that will not go above 3-3.5 Amps. Not because safety issues, but because its performance (high drain CH, PD, PF cells will hold much better under higher load) Joyetech are smart guys and already figured that out. Anybody eVic? Joyetech eVic 3400mAh battery

20 bucks :0

Unfortunately e-cig world of mods is still a big mess. Hopefully that will change.
Again for members who will understand, IMO this cell is safer than any "safe" chemistry 18650 cell if vaper plays by li-ion rules (and everybody should).

No, this cell is not ICR cell.

Cathode, material based on LiNiO2, and Anode= Carbon.

Mechanical mods, different world. So many people are using mech mods (to make things worse - subohms), and 90% of them doesn't know what battery goes in remote control.
IMHO mech mod designers are playing with big fire. FDA is watching and with all these crappy batteries sold under fake IMR, and "safe" chemistry names sooner or later we will all go "underground".

RandomFellow , I agree...

 

[vaprzclub]

AW IMR 18650 2000mAh.

You should get 8-10 hours of heavy use out of them.

Are these batteries protected or not? I cant find any AW IMR with proper description

Thanks.

 

[flowerpots]

Are these batteries protected or not? I cant find any AW IMR with proper description

Thanks.

AW-IMR batteries are unprotected, high-drain batteries.

 

[mredman]

I had an AW IMR18650 almost explode on me, so I no longer use those. I have been using Panasonic hybrid
CGR18650CH (IMR/hybrid) 2250mAh 10A for a month now and love them with no complaints at all!

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Panasonic must comply with some new standards (now when Sanyo batt division is part of Panasonic industrial), so you will not see 3400mAh, or 730wh/l anymore. Have you ever asked yourself under what discharging conditions they get those mAh? If something is 3000 or 3100mAh we should know how high CC was, and under what temp. condition battery was discharged. Now, big manufacturers are getting close.
ncr18650b is excellent cell any regulated mod that will not go above 3-3.5 Amps. Not because safety issues, but because its performance (high drain CH, PD, PF cells will hold much better under higher load) Joyetech are smart guys and already figured that out. Anybody eVic? Joyetech eVic 3400mAh battery

20 bucks :0

Unfortunately e-cig world of mods is still a big mess. Hopefully that will change.
Again for members who will understand, IMO this cell is safer than any "safe" chemistry 18650 cell if vaper plays by li-ion rules (and everybody should).

No, this cell is not ICR cell.

Cathode, material based on LiNiO2, and Anode= Carbon.

Mechanical mods, different world. So many people are using mech mods (to make things worse - subohms), and 90% of them doesn't know what battery goes in remote control.
IMHO mech mod designers are playing with big fire. FDA is watching and with all these crappy batteries sold under fake IMR, and "safe" chemistry names sooner or later we will all go "underground".

RandomFellow , I agree...

I agree with you that Panasonic NCR cells are not ICR cells as currently defined by ECF standards. I've done a lot more research than I should have based on the price of the two NCR18650B's that I bought.

I am now convinced that these batteries are fine in devices that never demand more than 10 amps.

This is a different chemistry than the dreaded "unprotected ICR" which should never be dropped into one of our devices, and appears to be somewhat of a hybrid chemistry.

If measured on a chart that rated capacity vs. safety, the NCR chemistry appears to make advances on both axes.

Battery development is not being driven by our uses, or by those dudes using the high end flashlights or RC stuff. It's being driven by the demand for the perfect cell for the perfect electric car.

The research continues...

 

[evan le'garde]

AW's all the way ! You get what you pay for, this can be applied universally to all batteries !.

 

[suspectK]

I've been using a Samsung 3400 mAh and two 2600 mAh batteries for about 4 months. I don't use low resistance coils or produce enough current to cause concern with the lower continuous current rating with them.

 

[bajin4us]

My favorite from three years of vaping is the green pasosonic 3400 mah

 

[Baditude]

For anyone interested in a more technical article on batteries and mods that I adapted/condensed from an article written by a vaping enthusiast and battery expert, I've recently put together another blog:

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries (Two Parts)

 

[vicflo]

I've been using a Samsung 3400 mAh and two 2600 mAh batteries for about 4 months. I don't use low resistance coils or produce enough current to cause concern with the lower continuous current rating with them.

its not only about staying on the safe side when using a battery, the problem actually exists in the mishaps you dont see or dont plan for. VV/VW devices for example: you dont want to play the coin toss between a devices 5 amp limit/short protection and a generic unprotected battery with a ~5amp limit. coils pop, foreign objects fall in, manufacturer defects...etc

 

[flowerpots]

What's the difference between NCR18650B's and NCR18650A's?

 

[Baditude]

What's the difference between NCR18650B's and NCR18650A's?

Someone more familiar with these may be able to add more than me. Both are made by Panasonic and are described as extreme capacity NCR chemistry batteries. No claim to be high drain batteries.

Main difference appears to be different mAh capacity. Both are available either in protected & unprotected versions. Protected versions are 68.9 mm in length, almost 4 mm longer than the unprotected version (65 mm).

NCR18650A 3100mAh

NCR18650B 3400mAh

Orbtonic is selling what appears to be the same batteries with their own brand label. I found it interesting that they have the following disclaimers:

"Protected Li-ion 18650 batteries are made for high performance flashlights, not for e-cig mods."

"Important - Electronic cigarette owners: Powerful high drain 18650 battery cells made for e-cig mods."

 

[Strontium]

Someone more familiar with these may be able to add more than me. Both are made by Panasonic and are described as extreme capacity NCR chemistry batteries. No claim to be high drain batteries.

Main difference appears to be different mAh capacity. Both are available either in protected & unprotected versions. Protected versions are 68.9 mm in length, almost 4 mm longer than the unprotected version (65 mm).

NCR18650A 3100mAh

NCR18650B 3400mAh

Orbtonic is selling what appears to be the same batteries with their own brand label. I found it interesting that they have the following disclaimers:

"Protected Li-ion 18650 batteries are made for high performance flashlights, not for e-cig mods."

"Important - Electronic cigarette owners: Powerful high drain 18650 battery cells made for e-cig mods."

I think that is because of their size. Protection is 2-3 extra mm. It would be nice if all mods can use protected cells. Vaping would be safer.
I think only Vamo and few others can use long protected batteries.