Beware of the Quit Smoking Purists
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If it was done in a polite and informative way - like John's post was over there - we'd say, "That's great!" and let you know that there are quite a few ECF members who are going nicotine free with e-cigs. It's a personal choice and no one should be forced to live by another person's standards.
If you came here and attacked us for the choices we make, then that is a different story. No one was berating you for choosing to be nicotine-free. They were only defending John's right to talk about his choice to go smoke-free. At the time he posted, he had no clue that the members of the site were only about nicotine cessation and not just about smoke cessation. He didn't deserve the treatment he got.
We get people who come here all of the time citing how e-cigs have anti-freeze and carcinogens and we shouldn't use them or that they got major health problems from using an e-cig for a couple of days and claim everyone should quit because of it. If the person is genuinely uninformed, they get educated in a polite manner. If they come on attacking, we defend ourselves, but still try to give them the benefit of the doubt at first. John was being genuine and he was attacked. He didn't go there and call you names or belittle you or your method of quitting. The members from here simply came to his defense. I believe that never would have happened if John had been treated kindly from his initial post.
To put it simply, HOW you came here and talked about going nicotine free would determine how you'd be received and treated.
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I probably would have asked them what it was, how it worked, what was the success rate, are there side effects, etc. A newbie on a forum with something new to say should be allowed to speak his piece.
John didn't "invade" the QSMB - he has stated his reasons numerous times so I'm not going to repeat them again.
Your first reaction started this nitejanitor. It would have been better to be curious and ask questions before jumping the gun.
I'll throw it back at ya - Beth, how do you feel when that group gangs up on you for saying something that you probably didn't think was that bad to say? I know they do, I've read the posts and there are lots of them.
I'm not trying to make you mad - I would just like you to look at this from another angle.
Alright... I would ~almost~ buy that except that some people find Twelve Step programs for gambling, sex, shopping/debt, clutter, and even workaholics to be effective for them. It's more about what they have come to understand about themselves than a safer alternative.
However, with that said, in ~this~ situation, I'm all with you about the boards response to the visitors (as if ECFers are alien invaders). I do however think, as I've said in most of my posts on this thread, that people in the throws of addiction, with hardcore addictive personalities, aren't going to see 'the light' of vaping until it becomes more prevalent in society and the market.
OK. That's admirable. In terms of tactic though, would we perhaps be better served to just start inviting more and more people and smokers that aren't already tied to those boards over ~here~. Some SEO work for ECF, your blog is a good advocacy site, Grimm, Basilray, etc. etc. Put those energies into coordinating an outreach program from ECF instead of the perceived invasion.
This is such an unfortunate mess though. I could only wish the response wasn't so vitriolic (as the waves come). -Magnus
To add to this...and you can go revisit the thread to confirm it. The thread went on for over a page with just you guys and john before anyone else here went over.... that's not exactly an outright invasion. If John had bee received with just a LITTLE diplomacy the said invasion would never have occurred.
IMO its good things happened how they did now we have an opportunity to get to know one another and open each others minds, and learn from each other
I think we can all agree it was handled inappropriately by all involved. I did not and will not sign up over at QSMB, but I did make my fair share of inflammatory remarks in this thread and for that I apologize.
Pointing fingers at who started it or who continued it is just plain silly at this point. Both sides are to blame in this. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I'm sure many would like a "do over". I haven't been here for very long so I can't comment on what would have happened here if the roles had been reversed. What I can say is that there are far more moderators (and they are more active) here and I think the problem would have been nipped in the bud more quickly. That's not a bash on Fred. It would be impossible for him to always watch his forum, and I'm sure he knows that... "When the cat's away, the mice will play" or something along those lines.
I have nothing but respect for those who quit smoking cold turkey. I couldn't do it for longer than three days at a time before I started to go crazy. With the lozenge and the gum I made it a week or so, but both irritated my mouth so badly my dentist implored me to quit using them. With the patch I did make it to one month quit and I would have continued with it had it not been for the side effects. Whichever side of my body I placed the patch would feel like it had been kicked by a horse. I ached every day and was absolutely miserable. It didn't matter if I placed on my arm, abdomen, or leg... It just hurt. I could deal with the minor skin irritation, the crazy dreams, the occasional craving and the mood swings, but not the physical pain. My first PV was blu about a year ago; it didn't work for me. I thought I was doomed to a lifetime of cigarettes and then I found this place with all of the wonderful people and information. They suggested a PV that was more likely to work for me, so I ordered it. The day it arrived was the day I had my last cig. That was almost 3 weeks ago. While it hasn't been a breeze, I've learned to deal with the issues I've been having and I fully intend to stay quit this time. If I hadn't found this place, I would without a doubt still be smoking.
Pointing fingers at who started it or who continued it is just plain silly at this point. Both sides are to blame in this. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I'm sure many would like a "do over". I haven't been here for very long so I can't comment on what would have happened here if the roles had been reversed. What I can say is that there are far more moderators (and they are more active) here and I think the problem would have been nipped in the bud more quickly. That's not a bash on Fred. It would be impossible for him to always watch his forum, and I'm sure he knows that... "When the cat's away, the mice will play" or something along those lines.
I have nothing but respect for those who quit smoking cold turkey. I couldn't do it for longer than three days at a time before I started to go crazy. With the lozenge and the gum I made it a week or so, but both irritated my mouth so badly my dentist implored me to quit using them. With the patch I did make it to one month quit and I would have continued with it had it not been for the side effects. Whichever side of my body I placed the patch would feel like it had been kicked by a horse. I ached every day and was absolutely miserable. It didn't matter if I placed on my arm, abdomen, or leg... It just hurt. I could deal with the minor skin irritation, the crazy dreams, the occasional craving and the mood swings, but not the physical pain. My first PV was blu about a year ago; it didn't work for me. I thought I was doomed to a lifetime of cigarettes and then I found this place with all of the wonderful people and information. They suggested a PV that was more likely to work for me, so I ordered it. The day it arrived was the day I had my last cig. That was almost 3 weeks ago. While it hasn't been a breeze, I've learned to deal with the issues I've been having and I fully intend to stay quit this time. If I hadn't found this place, I would without a doubt still be smoking.
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I was using the examples of health & danger for alcohol and drugs, but the point was "negative consequences." The negative consequence of relapsing with nicotine use USED to mean endangering your health with smoke. That is not the case with smokeless nicotine use. The 12 step programs for those things you mentioned also work because there are negative consequences to those behaviors.
I'm not saying a twelve step program wouldn't work for a nicotine addict who wants off nicotine, but it has about the same success rate as other NRTs (a little higher at 10%) but unlike with those other addictions, abstinence is not the ONLY option to address nicotine addiction.
Regarding the "invasion," I stayed out of it until the new subforum was created there. I saw what happened there 2 years ago and I had no interest in knocking my head on that brick wall. Trust me - I'm biting my tongue at every other post. But what's done is done and now the subforum is there and any smokers who go there deserve to know the facts about e-cigarettes.
However, none of that would have happened if they hadn't treated John so poorly when he made an innocent post. He was just trying to let people know what worked for him - he had no idea he was wacking at a wasp nest. But I agree that things got out of hand on both sides. I wish the QSMB folks had just said "good for you, thank you for sharing" and left it at that.
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I did as well Nate. Throughout this entire ordeal I have counted on the administration of the QSMB to deem what was appropriate or not. And I am curious if John's original post, which was by any account a little long, because of its detail, was approved by anyone at QSMB.
It is apparently the administrators forum. If the administrator deemed John's post as appropriate who are we to say that he shouldn't have posted it. I know I had to be "admitted" so to speak. My first two posts had to be approved. I am just addressing comments that have been posted earlier as to whether we had the right to go there to begin with.
It is apparently the administrators forum. If the administrator deemed John's post as appropriate who are we to say that he shouldn't have posted it. I know I had to be "admitted" so to speak. My first two posts had to be approved. I am just addressing comments that have been posted earlier as to whether we had the right to go there to begin with.
I don't know and I don't know how to ask about it. Maybe I just forgot to hit send, but I could swear I even edited it after (I always have to fix typos in my posts, LOL!)
I didn't get a warning and unlike with ECF it doesn't show that it was deleted by a MOD. So, maybe I'm just losing my mind!
Damn cheese.
I didn't get a warning and unlike with ECF it doesn't show that it was deleted by a MOD. So, maybe I'm just losing my mind!
Damn cheese.
I just made my first post in the Cold Turkey forum. I wonder if it will get blasted or received in the spirit in which it's offered.
It is a quit smoking site. John had no reason to think he was disturbing a wasp nest. He may have thought he'd get some resistance, but probably not what he was hit with.
And the owner of the site has supported the fact that the site is NOT just about quitting nicotine, it's about quitting SMOKING - in ANY way possible. They had no right to treat John that way nor anyone who tried to come to his defense.
The NA* group was acting like they owned the meeting hall and they got called on it. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot share the space. To be honest, it's good to have another place for folks who want to wean off nicotine with e-cigs and may need support staying off once they quit. That demographic tends to get a little overlooked on ECF with all of the vaping stuff, mods and activism threads.
ETA: Although, in hindsight and acknowledgement to Cozz, I do feel bad that their meeting was disturbed by our members. We just didn't know right away that was the situation and it got to the point of no return after that. But if someone had NICELY explained that the site was really about nicotine addiction and not smoking cessation, in spite of the name, I think the ECF members would have not felt attacked. A lot of it started from misunderstanding - they felt attacked, we felt blindsided and then we felt attacked for (what we thought) was no reason.
Hindsight is 20/20.
*Nicotine Anonymous
And the owner of the site has supported the fact that the site is NOT just about quitting nicotine, it's about quitting SMOKING - in ANY way possible. They had no right to treat John that way nor anyone who tried to come to his defense.
The NA* group was acting like they owned the meeting hall and they got called on it. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot share the space. To be honest, it's good to have another place for folks who want to wean off nicotine with e-cigs and may need support staying off once they quit. That demographic tends to get a little overlooked on ECF with all of the vaping stuff, mods and activism threads.
ETA: Although, in hindsight and acknowledgement to Cozz, I do feel bad that their meeting was disturbed by our members. We just didn't know right away that was the situation and it got to the point of no return after that. But if someone had NICELY explained that the site was really about nicotine addiction and not smoking cessation, in spite of the name, I think the ECF members would have not felt attacked. A lot of it started from misunderstanding - they felt attacked, we felt blindsided and then we felt attacked for (what we thought) was no reason.
Hindsight is 20/20.
*Nicotine Anonymous
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I just figured this entire time if the administration didn't want us there we wouldn't be there. Whether its an AA type site or not. I don't know how else to put it. And I don't believe there was any doubt that the following membership requests were from ecf members. That's why I have always felt within my rights to be there. Whether it upset the members or not its the administrators site. And I'm sorry it bothers some we did it but that's just my two cents.
The only reason I could think of is because I mentioned snus. But my snus comment on another thread is still there. I don't know. It was just some advice on determining where you are in the vaping progression and what your smoking motivations were and how to use that to determine your best course of weaning.
Unless you mean is there a possibility that I could have lost my mind then yes - that's a definite possibility!
Unless you mean is there a possibility that I could have lost my mind then yes - that's a definite possibility!
Er.. o.k. been busy with other stuff.. LOL didn't see it.. where is your question.. on that thread?
The only reason I could think of is because I mentioned snus. But my snus comment on another thread is still there. I don't know. It was just some advice on determining where you are in the vaping progression and what your smoking motivations were and how to use that to determine your best course of weaning.
Unless you mean is there a possibility that I could have lost my mind then yes - that's a definite possibility!
I just wondered if it was improper .. or that works too LOL
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