Blood test lab results for nicotine levels!!!

[arembee]

Blood test lab results for nicotine levels!!!

Maybe these results should be forwarded to the FDA via snail mail so they can see it and feel it.

 

[DaBrat]

I'm still trying to see how this would be a win-win. I think you're assuming that everyone who picks up an e-cig quits cigarettes. There is absolutely no evidence of that. Lots of people are not able to get off of analogs using e-cigs. The reason is that e-cigs are a lousy source of nicotine. It's not even equal to nicotine gum.

For some people it works. For others it doesn't. You may be able to get by with 1/10 the nicotine you did with analogs but many can't.

I'm simply trying to be realistic. You may want to look at this thread

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...0-mg-liquids-since-absorbion-rate-so-low.html

Do you know of any cessation device that DOES work 100% of the time except death? From what I read here it is definitely more effective than anything big pharma has come out with. That and from my own personal experience. When I was still in the office, I watched friends remove their nic patches to smoke outdoors, definite no no!!!

Patrick Swayze, suffering from pancreatic cancer, has still been photograhed with an analog. Smoking is a hard addiction to kick and ANYHTING than lessens your exposure or in most cases, completely stops it without all the BS put forth by the FDA should be applauded.

 

[TimLa]

I was a pack-a-day smoker since age 12 (I'm 50).

Last analog was July 31st, been vaping ever since. Yes, there was withdrawal, for about 4 days, now it's just pattern behavior.

Food tastes EXCELLENT and I can smell things I'd completely forgotten about.

In two weeks+ of vaping, I usually refill the cart with 3-5 drops of Johnson Creek, and can't see that I'll run out soon.

My friends and family are fascinated by it, cuz nothing else worked. This very likely saved my life.

-T

 

[TheB0lt]

Hello!

I think everyone makes good points in this thread.

The sharing of thoughts and experiences is what helps us ... in all aspects of life.

My two cents on this one is as follows:

My mother
- 40+ year smoker of analog cigs.
- Received eCig from me as gift.
- Quit smoking that day -- tossed everything analog away.
- Hasn't smoked an analog in two weeks and feels no urge to.
- Is on 11mg of liquid, but is just as comfortable at 6.
- Has no more morning coughing fit (it was bad!).
- Has no more wheezing.
- Is breathing much better.

Me
- 20+ year smoker (off & on).
- Same results as Dear 'ole Mum.

My Cousin
- 25+ year smoker.
- Tried Chantex with horrible side affects and smoked after.
- Tried gum as directed. Finished recently and is craving smoking as badly as ever.
- Would she with an eCig? I honestly don't think so.

There really is something to be said about the habit --true habit-- of smoking.

I LOVED to smoke. After a good meal, during a good conversation, just because. My mother didn't -- she just had to!

The feel of eCigs (regular type, funky-colored pen -- doesn't matter) and the liberation from the hundreds (if not thousands) of evil ingrediants makes it a winner.

Will it work for everyone? Probably not. But what does?! For us, it seems as though nic may not have been the worst of the "addiction", but it's still nice to see that apparently we're getting much much less than analogs.

Take care all,

Dan

 

[vapor4u2c]

All I can say is on September 23 I started to Vape 24mg. I thought maybe I was getting too much nicotine. So I decided that I should go to 12mg. I did that up until I just got my 0nic order from Juicy Vapor on this past Saturday. I have been on 0 nic since, only a couple of days but feel great. What and how long did I smoke. . . .Cherry Swisher Sweet Mini cigars 1.5-2 packs a day and inhaled everyone of them. I smoked Camel non filters from 15-21 then went to camel wides from 21-25 and have smoked nothing but Swishers from 25yrs old up to 35 (which was this past September). 20 years of nasty smoking, trying patches, pills, frustration. . . . now I'm nic free in less than a month. I think vaping is a great way to rid yourself from smoking. . . .if that is truly what you want to do. My brother who will be 40 in a few months smoked 2 pack + a day and now is on 12mg and soon going to no nic in 3 weeks! For me this is like a miracle

 

[telsie]

Fascinating information. This makes we really want to get some blood work done in a few weeks.

 

[sevryn999]

Yeah makes me want to get tested too.. Official numbers are always good!

 

[hifistud]

Some people on this forum are starting to sound a whole lot like the anti nicotine/smoking crowd.

I've noticed this too...

 

[Closet Toker]

No wonder I still crave analogs.

Perhaps the "sludge" in a smokers lungs contains Nicotine, thus keeping a constant flow of the drug to the blood supply?

Vaping, being a more pure delivery method, allows the Nicotine to break down more quickly?

.

 

[Stubby]

No wonder I still crave analogs.

Perhaps the "sludge" in a smokers lungs contains Nicotine, thus keeping a constant flow of the drug to the blood supply?

Vaping, being a more pure delivery method, allows the Nicotine to break down more quickly?

.

I'm amazed this thread is still active. Haven't checked for a while. So it goes.

Actually I'm glad it is as I've been able to refine my views a bit in the last few months.

I don't think you were getting nicotine satisfaction because of the sludge, though it is a rather humorous idea.

If You're craving nicotine its because e-cigs are not a very good nicotine delivery system, as all the research points to. Anyone who doubts that is living in La-La land. Some people seem to be able to adapt to that, others are not. I'm interested in those that have problems. If you're using your e-cig and everything is peaches and cream, then good for you. Carry on.

Recently, on another forum dedicated to snus, stories have begun to come out on the failures of e-cigs. I dubbed it the e-cig refuge thread. Some interesting and crazy stuff. All of it dealing with the fact that e-cigs are just not delivering the goods. All the problems appear to disappear when a good source of nicotine is used, in this case snus. There are some good lessons in this for everyone who is interested in reduced harm and helping people get off the cigarettes.

E-cigs have there limitations. They are not gods gift to smokers. What they are is one of a family of reduced harm tobacco/nicotine products, and with little doubt, the one with the worst nicotine delivery. It does have the hand-to-mouth oral fixation thing going for it, but after that it can fall short. I've seen to many threads from people struggling with this issue and getting nothing but very bad advise from nearly everyone on the forum.

If you're pushing the agenda that e-cigs are the only legitimate reduced harm approach, as many on the forum do, and most on this thread have, your dead wrong. It's an ignorant and dangerous viewpoint.

A more sane and effective approach is to recognize all the proven reduced harm products, and use them in whatever combination works. This would include e-cigs, snus, nasal snuff, and dissolvables.

If your chain vaping all day to keep the demons at bay, e-cigs are not working for you. Its time to supplement you e-cig with a more robust form or nicotine. If you've been using the e-cig for a reasonable amount of time and still not able to get off the cigarettes, its time to try other things. Taking this approach would very likely greatly increase the chances of getting and staying off the cigs.

The e-cig fanaticism being pushed by many is not a good thing for the reduced harm movement, and especially for the people for whom e-cigs are not the whole answer.

 

[zonia]

When I smoked analogs every 1.5 to 2 hours I had to take a smoke break or I would get antsy, irritable, etc but couldn't really do that if I was busy at work. I started vaping it took 2 weeks to get analogs but since then I have been analog free. I still had the cravings sometimes for an analog so I upped my nicotine from 18 to 24mg and vaped every chance I got but noticed it got less and less as time went by and I even switched to use 6 or 12 mg at night (I use a contact case R is for regular L is for low) with the occasional dip into in the 24 mg stuff. I tried the 36mg but it was too much for me. I am proud of myself though because I went over 4 hours at work before I realized that I hadn't vaped at all then only about 6-8 puffs to get through the rest of shift. I didn't even chain vape on the way home only another 6-8 puffs. Whatever the ecig is doing a lot of nic/very little nic it is working for me and for the first time in over 30 years I can see light at the end of the tunnel and I am pretty sure it isn't a train. The urge for analogs is gone and the urge for vaping is decreasing all by itself. Facts or no facts I am happy but I realize it isn't for everybody. My youngest son goes back and forth and his girlfriend hates vaping but my son-in-law never looked back. My brother-in-law refuses to try at all. I don't try to force vaping on anybody but I do try to educate when I can and am very glad for the wealth of information I get from this forum, including this thread.

 

[Angelz]

As with anything worthwhile you really have to want it and TRY for it to work... for those of us who did and won, it is wonderful

This is what amazes me about ecigs - I was a heavy smoker for years, had absolutely NO intention of quitting, and quit smoking 3 days after getting my first ecig, without even trying. It was ridiculously, insanely easy! But maybe the desire to quit has to be there somewhere in the first place, yes?

 

[SpottedPony]

Hi,
I realize it has been months after your initial post...but whatever.
Interesting. A study was puclished in JAMA that showed "similar" results. I am sure you can find if you google for it. They took 8 (I believe) "healthy" folks and tested their nicotine blood levels before, during, and after a 20 minute "vaping" effort. They had the subjects vape as on would smoke (I assume they meant a given number of puffs per minute). Anyway, the nicotine levels were very low...much lower would have been expected. Interesting. I only read a summary of the article...it did not give the concentration (mg/ml) of ejuice the subject vaped or the actual values of the blood anaylisis results. Just kinda fits your post.

 

[gooney0]

Thanks for the info. Good, bad, or indifferent more information is better.

I for one am glad to see a lower amount of nicotine. Nicotine was never something I wanted. I only wanted to smoke because I enjoy smoking.

Nicotine is the trap that "forced" me to smoke when I didn't really want to.

I suspected the effectiveness of e-cigs was rather low. For the first two weeks I just couldn't catch up to my cravings.

I don't feel as strong an urge when I wake up in the morning, and have gotten used to the 24mg juice used most of the day.

I'm tired of changing my life to suit the needs of a nicotine addiction. I want to smoke or vape when I want to, not because I need to.

If the PV is doing little more than keeping my hands busy while I suffer withdraw so be it. Thats a win in my book.

There are other good ways of getting nicotine if that what you're really after. Not me I just want to smoke (or pretend to smoke).

-Gooney0

 

[P3rplexity]

I'm amazed this thread is still active. Haven't checked for a while. So it goes.

Actually I'm glad it is as I've been able to refine my views a bit in the last few months.

I don't think you were getting nicotine satisfaction because of the sludge, though it is a rather humorous idea.

If You're craving nicotine its because e-cigs are not a very good nicotine delivery system, as all the research points to. Anyone who doubts that is living in La-La land. Some people seem to be able to adapt to that, others are not. I'm interested in those that have problems. If you're using your e-cig and everything is peaches and cream, then good for you. Carry on.

Recently, on another forum dedicated to snus, stories have begun to come out on the failures of e-cigs. I dubbed it the e-cig refuge thread. Some interesting and crazy stuff. All of it dealing with the fact that e-cigs are just not delivering the goods. All the problems appear to disappear when a good source of nicotine is used, in this case snus. There are some good lessons in this for everyone who is interested in reduced harm and helping people get off the cigarettes.

E-cigs have there limitations. They are not gods gift to smokers. What they are is one of a family of reduced harm tobacco/nicotine products, and with little doubt, the one with the worst nicotine delivery. It does have the hand-to-mouth oral fixation thing going for it, but after that it can fall short. I've seen to many threads from people struggling with this issue and getting nothing but very bad advise from nearly everyone on the forum.

If you're pushing the agenda that e-cigs are the only legitimate reduced harm approach, as many on the forum do, and most on this thread have, your dead wrong. It's an ignorant and dangerous viewpoint.

A more sane and effective approach is to recognize all the proven reduced harm products, and use them in whatever combination works. This would include e-cigs, snus, nasal snuff, and dissolvables.

If your chain vaping all day to keep the demons at bay, e-cigs are not working for you. Its time to supplement you e-cig with a more robust form or nicotine. If you've been using the e-cig for a reasonable amount of time and still not able to get off the cigarettes, its time to try other things. Taking this approach would very likely greatly increase the chances of getting and staying off the cigs.

The e-cig fanaticism being pushed by many is not a good thing for the reduced harm movement, and especially for the people for whom e-cigs are not the whole answer.

I really don't understand where all this cynicism is coming from. If it's because electronic cigarettes didn't work for you, sorry to hear that, nothing has a 100% success rate when it comes to addiction, other than death. I cannot speak for everybody, but personally I've tried snus(From experience, I find your sacred snus to be nothing but a joke), I've tried gum, I've tried everything you can think of to stop smoking. Nothing has ever worked, and these e-cigs are working. I have no desire for an analog, none whatsoever, and many others feel the same way. This is only my 3rd day off of analogs so right now should be the time I'm craving it most, right? I'm not quitting smoking to get away from nicotine, nicotine in pure form, as I'm sure you know, has a lot of benefits, I'm quitting to get away from all the carcinogens found in cigarettes.

Nobody is saying that e-cigs are the ONLY legitimate reduced harm approach, you came up with that on your own. Many people are simply stating it's the best that they have PERSONALLY used. This is after all, an e-cig forum...

Also, I liked your comment earlier, about how some people work for a living so they can't spend 8 hours puffing on an e-cig. Your rather ignorant if you believe that all of us spend 8 hours puffing, maybe you should read around a bit more before making statements like that.

And since you seem to be anti-PV (deny all you want but it's blatantly obvious) and pro-everything else, please save us the time from reading your posts on the next visit and just post your thoughts here: Other Alternatives to Smoking - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

 

[grimmer255]

I think it also has a lot to do with which device you use as well. I went through several devices until I found the one that really satisfied that hunger for nicotine. I even went down to 6mg because of how well the device delivers the nicotine. But I will say I still have to vape a little more often but it still delivers what I need. You also need to look at the type of liquid you are using. When I was using TW's liquid I vaped a little less than what my current liquid I am using. So needless to say Im going to be ordering some more TW's liquid. I highly recomend try some mods out there. I know of several that are trying to make them pretty small. I say about the same width as an 801 attie and maybe a little longer. Fully mechanical devices work better because there is less resistance which allow more current to flow to the atties which in the long run allows better vapor production which fills that nicotine gap that your getting with current smaller batteries. I know of two and maybe three soon that will be offering small mods. Super T's Mini style should be out soon and GG the slim is out now... but all I can say is my vaping has been better since I switched devices. I have a gg slim now but looking to get the super t's mini as soon as he comes out with it. No solder and no wires... and the best part of it is the batteries are easy to get a hold of... and supposedly they last 2-3 times longer.

But yea if the current device is not really getting the vapor and delivery of nicotine you want dont give up. Try sample bottles of liquid from different supliers until you find the one you like. And there are plenty of ecigs and mods out there that may just work for you. So please dont give up. I quit smoking back on April 4th and have yet to pick up a analog.

 

[Stubby]

I really don't understand where all this cynicism is coming from. If it's because electronic cigarettes didn't work for you, sorry to hear that, nothing has a 100% success rate when it comes to addiction, other than death. I cannot speak for everybody, but personally I've tried snus(From experience, I find your sacred snus to be nothing but a joke), I've tried gum, I've tried everything you can think of to stop smoking. Nothing has ever worked, and these e-cigs are working. I have no desire for an analog, none whatsoever, and many others feel the same way. This is only my 3rd day off of analogs so right now should be the time I'm craving it most, right? I'm not quitting smoking to get away from nicotine, nicotine in pure form, as I'm sure you know, has a lot of benefits, I'm quitting to get away from all the carcinogens found in cigarettes.

Nobody is saying that e-cigs are the ONLY legitimate reduced harm approach, you came up with that on your own. Many people are simply stating it's the best that they have PERSONALLY used. This is after all, an e-cig forum...

Also, I liked your comment earlier, about how some people work for a living so they can't spend 8 hours puffing on an e-cig. Your rather ignorant if you believe that all of us spend 8 hours puffing, maybe you should read around a bit more before making statements like that.

And since you seem to be anti-PV (deny all you want but it's blatantly obvious) and pro-everything else, please save us the time from reading your posts on the next visit and just post your thoughts here: Other Alternatives to Smoking - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

Anti-e-cg... no, I've been supporting e-cigs for some time now, but if we stop asking questions then we're all in trouble. I believe I said that if the e-cig is working for you, carry on, and that was not said with any cynicism behind it. The post you're writing about was specifically for those for whom it is not working.

I would suggest you have a look at this thread

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html


If you want to carry on a discussion from there your most welcome to. I've certainly made my share of stumbles and bumbles, but we're all learning here.

 

[mjones]

You do know there is 78mg juice, if that don't float ur boat I'm not sure what will lol. Maybe a nicotine iv drip? haha

 

[P3rplexity]

Anti-e-cg... no, I've been supporting e-cigs for some time now, but if we stop asking questions then we're all in trouble. I believe I said that if the e-cig is working for you, carry on, and that was not said with any cynicism behind it. The post you're writing about was specifically for those for whom it is not working.

I would suggest you have a look at this thread

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html


If you want to carry on a discussion from there your most welcome to. I've certainly made my share of stumbles and bumbles, but we're all learning here.

I agree that we must ask questions to progress, if nobody ever did we'd still be lighting candles and riding around in horse pulled carriages. Your previous posts just seemed very negative and deconstructive.

But if that's not what you meant then that's my fault, just reeaaally seemed that way.

 

[Kurt]

I believe Stubby is correct, and is just stating what TropicalBob has been saying: there are many harm-reduction sources of nicotine, and perhaps ecigs are not enough for some people. I think people should perhaps be a little less sensitive towards statements that could be interpreted as a threat to ecigs. Knowledge of the real details of each of these harm-reducing methods is very much to our advantage, both on a personal level and in terms of the future of us being "allowed" to vape (I will likely continue regardless of whether I am allowed to or not).

It seems that the majority of nic we take in with vaping is orally absorbed, or throat/esophagus absorbed, rather than lung absorbed. It is being shown with these test results here and in other threads that vapers have elevated cotinine levels, but not in general greatly elevated nic levels. While the psychoactivity of cotinine is in some dispute, it seems to not be a active as nicotine.

I know for a fact that some people have highly metabolizing saliva, while others do not. Example: my father, when eating very thick starchy soup, will find that as he is eating his soup become thinner and more runny, while I personally do not have this effect. Why? Probably because his saliva is more active at breaking down starches than mine. More amylases in the saliva (although this is not prove, only a probable hypothesis).

So, perhaps you can see where I am going with this. My hypothesis: some people have more nic-oxidizing enzymes in their saliva, and so with them most of the nic is oxidized to cot orally. It could be that these are the people that show the lowest nic levels but higher cot levels, and perhaps vaping is not as effective for them. They have to chain vape high-nic juice to get the required fix.

Others may have lower oxiding enzyme levels orally, and so they are making less cot, and keeping more nic. So vaping at 6 or 8 mg is just fine for them, and they don't need high-nic binge vaping to kill the cravings.

So to test this, we need a calibrated oral ingestion of nicotine, not vaping. The lozenge comes in 2 mg and 4 mg strengths, and it is calibrated. Lets find out what the nic/cot levels are with lozenges, then we will know more about the oral actions of nicotine absorption. If both high-nic and low-nic users do this, it could tell us a lot. The lozenges take a little getting used to. You are supposed to just put it up in the corner of the mouth between cheek and gum, by the outside of an upper molar, and just leave it there. Minimally sucking on it, and no chewing it, which can cause niccups .

What to you think? I am not interested in anyone stating this is a waste of time, and who cares anyway. Please keep those sentiments to yourself, as you simply do not understand scientific inquiry. Tell a nicotine researching biochemist that their investigations into nicotine nerve pain reduction methods are a waste of time, and let us know how that worked out for you. It is experiments like this that expand fields, and I say thank God there are people who after smoking for many years in blissful ignorance are actually craving more than nicotine. They are craving real data and knowledge. All good in my book.