**BOOM!** Battery Failure

[Robert]

ok good....


Now- for reaal world advice.

Alot of us have made mods like these. The flashlights used fit CR2's perfectly and nothing else unfortunately....So say you have a mod like this 5 volt or a 6 volt magnumm- dosen't matter who made it.

The best thing you can do is drill some vent holes in the schedual 40 PVC and a few in the body of the PV... If something does go wrong- it will give that preasure somewhere to go.

 

[crashtestjeep]

since were on the topic and you chose bringing it up, would this not be urs?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/closed-sold-threads/46020-fs-sale-6-volt-magnum-35-a.html

or these?
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/closed-sold-threads/46025-fs-5-volt-red-detonator-55-a.html

 

[Robert]

yes it's mine. why? It's 6 volts- not 5 and it's sitting on my bookshelf.

I never said I hadn't made any red ones- but I only sold 1 red one. It was damaged in transport and sent back- I sent a blue one in it's place.

 

[tribalmasters]

I am enjoying the Janty stick and ordinary pen batteries today, the GG is staying home unless I use my 3.7 volt protected cells I don't want to endanger anyone! Whats the best way to dispose of the unprotected cells? Can I dunk them in salt water to discharge them for a while and then throw them away??

 

[doots]

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[crashtestjeep]

deleted by crashtestjeep.

 

[doots]

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[props76]

Were all the connection heat shrinked? Then all components in-cased in steel hard epoxy? Were the + connections on the circut board epoxyed over to prevent a short?.

There is so much more to it that that... Spend all the time fixing the conections, now tell me about the switch that was used. Is it meant for 1,000's of uses? Or is it intended to be used on a 2 cent toy that comes with a happy meal? What electrical specs is it made to? Did anyone take the time to look or was it selected because you could get 100 for 1 cent?

Even batty selection. I've yet to hear anyone discuss duty cycle of the batts they select. Is that an issue? I don't know, I'm not an electrical engineer, are you?

When I was young, I was working with an engineer at the time. He asked me, "If I told you something would have a 1 in a million chance of failing, would you be concered?" of course the answer is no, we say that all the time, I have about a 1 in a million chance of getting struck by lightning.. Then he explained it to me, we were at a GM assembly plant. He said "Son, if the tooling we make for the line has a 1 in a million chance of failure, IT MEANS IT WILL FAIL, because there will be over 1 million cycles of the tool over the life of this assembly run, if that failure would mean someone will get hurt, its a garentee you just hurt or killed someone"...

The moral of the story here is, if your mod has a 1 in a million chance of failure, you are realitively safe, and for personal use, it would be good enough. If you are selling your product to enough people to expect 1 million cycles, you might kill someone..

 

[Parmacrafter]

For those who are interested, I did take apart the mod once I was sure there was no more issues with the battery. There was no short. All of the wires were perfectly fine. Not even charred. The only issue in this case was the battery itself. After inspecting the mod and putting it all back together, I put a protected 3.7v 18500 in it along with the same atty that was on it when the explosion happened. As unbelievable as it is, it is working perfectly. It appears the only damage was to the batteries, And some soot inside the battery compartment. On the bright side it looks like I get to put this mod back in my daily rotation. Just not with 2 batteries. I will only use 3.7v from here on out.The inside of the whole battery compartment is charred and that is why the unit looked black. The whole mod was in fact red. The whole point here is not to bash anyone or their mod building skills. The point was to raise awareness when working with batteries. Even car batteries can explode. The biggest point is that ANYTHING that is mass produced such as these batteries can fail! If we as end users can pay slightly more to get a slightly safer battery to use and lesson the risks of failure I believe we should do so. That was my ONLY point.

 

[sunset]

Parmacrafter, Wow, so sorry to hear about this and Thanks so much for sharing.

It's got me rethinking on some I got from China, which I do think are protected.

I did get a nice setup from Batteryjunction at a good price that are protected in several ways...here's the link if this is helpful for anyone.

Since I can't post a link, it's "Batteryjunction.com", then enter:

4 PACK RCR123A 3V 900MAH RECHARGEABLE LI-ION BATTERY WITH SMART CHARGER (AS LOW AS) $24.79

Honestly, I can't say enough good things about Batteryjunction. They're in CT., filled my two(2) orders within hours and I had batteries within 3 days, plus good prices.

Hope you feel better.

PS I do have one question for anyone...somewhere along the line I've read 'don't pyramid' the batteries. Which makes me wonder, since this is what I'm doing in my SB to get the 6volt aren't I? Maybe I need to find where I read that and understand that better(s).

 

[Parmacrafter]

Parmacrafter, Wow, so sorry to hear about this and Thanks so much for sharing.

It's got me rethinking on some I got from China, which I do think are protected.

I did get a nice setup from Batteryjunction at a good price that are protected in several ways...here's the link if this is helpful for anyone.

Since I can't post a link, it's "Batteryjunction.com", then enter:

4 PACK RCR123A 3V 900MAH RECHARGEABLE LI-ION BATTERY WITH SMART CHARGER (AS LOW AS) $24.79

Honestly, I can't say enough good things about Batteryjunction. They're in CT., filled my two(2) orders within hours and I had batteries within 3 days, plus good prices.

Hope you feel better.

PS I do have one question for anyone...somewhere along the line I've read 'don't pyramid' the batteries. Which makes me wonder, since this is what I'm doing in my SB to get the 6volt aren't I? Maybe I need to find where I read that and understand that better(s).

You are exactly right. What you are doing is stacking one battery on top of the other. Keep in mind that by doing that you are asking the bottom battery to push it's power up to and along with the power from the top battery. Kind of like trying to make a 3v battery run 6v through it. Many flashlights use several cells in the same fashion. Has anyone ever wondered why the batteries on a flashlight go dead so fast? Well, maybe that is why. If you check the output voltage on a set of flashlight batteries that are run one on top of the other you will usually find that the batteries are NOT ALL dead. One battery will be dead while the others still have quite a bit of power. Kinda funny how that works out. For instance. I have 2 flashlights that both use the same bulb and run on 3 standard AA 1.5v batteries. One set up uses the batteries one on top of the other. The other one has the batteries in a sleeve that runs them in a triangle shape sort of side by side. I can turn both flashlights on at the same time and the one with stacked batteries lasts for only 80 minutes before complete death while the one in the triangle side-by-side type pattern lasts for a full 130 minutes before complete death. The voltage of the battery really doesn't matter for this review.

I must also point out that many standard battery packs like the ones designed for RC cars are linked in the same sort of fashion. Usually there are two rows of 3 batteries stacked side by side. This seems to be a perfectly safe setup. The only real difference I see it the voltage. In most rc battery packs the total voltage is listed at somewhere between 4v and 9v using up to 8 cells. We on the other hand are using only 2 batteries, but they are rated at much higher potential voltage. I am not sure that would make any difference, but it certainly makes sense that the higher voltage in smaller cells could be part of the reason that the sells we use seem to fail more often. No proof either way that I have seen. Just an observation on my part.

I am not an electrician nor am I a battery manufacturer, so this information is only from my own personal experiences.

 

[props76]

The point is that a 3volt battery is meant to hold 3 volts. It is not meant to hold it's own 3 volts plus 3 volts from another battery that has been piggy backed to it. I am not an electrician nor am I a battery manufacturer, so this information is only from my own personal experiences.

That is incorrect advice. What you refer to as "piggy back" is actually a parallel circuit. (positive bat 1 to neg bat 2) Many many devices use this. Take a AA or AAA batt in your remote, shaver ect ect. Do you really think that device runs at 1.5 volts? Of course not. They are wired in parallel, (and also series) to up the voltage to something useful.

Another example is a car batt. Each cell puts out 2 volts. 6 cells are used to create 12 volts. The cell at the end of the line (either the positive or negative) doesn't get fried before the other cells.

Remember, volts is a measure of POTENTIAL energy.

The one batty is going to fry because you are making them work at 6 volts is not true. Its like saying if you hitch 10 horses to a wagon, the 1st horse is going to get killed/pulled apart because he's not at strong as 10 horses.

 

[tribalmasters]

Saltwater or NO??

 

[MHR7331]

Remember, volts is a measure of POTENTIAL energy.

The one batty is going to fry because you are making them work at 6 volts is not true. Its like saying if you hitch 10 horses to a wagon, the 1st horse is going to get killed/pulled apart because he's not at strong as 10 horses.

Yup. Voltage means jack unless it's serving up current... picture the Hoover Dam as holding a gajillion volts... not gonna do anything to you until it caves in, at which point those gajillion volts become a lot of moving, crushing, decimating water (kinetic energy, current).

Wired in series, those 2 batts will have 6v of potential, which they'll serve up to the load.. which is why shorts are bad for your health

 

[Parmacrafter]

Saltwater or NO??

According to the U.S. government, lithium ion batteries aren't an environmental hazard. "Lithium Ion batteries are classified by the federal government as non-hazardous waste and are safe for disposal in the normal municipal waste stream," says Kate Krebs at the National Recycling Coalition. While other types of batteries include toxic metals such as cadmium, the metals in lithium ion batteries - cobalt, copper, nickel and iron - are considered safe for landfills or incinerators (Interestingly enough, lithium ion batteries contain an ionic form of lithium but no lithium metal). Hope this helps.

here is a link discussing the use and safety: http://www.raesystems.com/~raedocs/App_Tech_Notes/Tech_Notes/TN-166_Li-Ion_Batteries.pdf

 

[props76]

Saltwater or NO??

The logic here is to discharge the batts, because if they short, we've seen what happened.

Question to you is a) is the batt dead already? b) do you care if your trash blows up and catches fire.

 

[bitey]

Ok I have read one other post where a non-protected li-ion battery exploded. Luckily the user was in no way hurt. Today I got to see for myself what kind of force is created by these tiny cells when they explode. First the basics:

The batteries were almost new. Only recharged maybe 4 times
They were 2 CR2 3v in a magnum mod that was set to run at 5volts
The batteries were charged the night before on a charger with built in protection.
The mod was used maybe for 4 or 5 drags during the morning before the explosion.

Parmacrafter, Wow, so sorry to hear about this and Thanks so much for sharing.

It's got me rethinking on some I got from China, which I do think are protected.

I did get a nice setup from Batteryjunction at a good price that are protected in several ways...here's the link if this is helpful for anyone.

Since I can't post a link, it's "Batteryjunction.com", then enter:

4 PACK RCR123A 3V 900MAH RECHARGEABLE LI-ION BATTERY WITH SMART CHARGER (AS LOW AS) $24.79

Honestly, I can't say enough good things about Batteryjunction. They're in CT., filled my two(2) orders within hours and I had batteries within 3 days, plus good prices.

Sunset, please read the OP's description of why she assumed her batteries were relatively safe - smart charger. Then, read your description of what you think are safe batteries. In both cases, there are unprotected batteries being used with a smart charger which "should" keep them from overcharging. However, the OP now thinks that hers overdischarged.

Whether that was the case or not, her battery/charger setup was basically the same that you are recommending as safe. The BJ batteries you link to are unprotected, but they come with a smart charger which is supposed to protect them. Please be careful.

If you wish to recommend batteries as safe to others, unless they say "protected" right on the description of the battery, it would be prudent to wait until you receive the batteries. Protected batteries usually say "Protected" right on the battery itself. In the alternative, you can read in the Modders forum the physical difference in the outer appearance of the batteries (I "think" that the protected batteries are smooth on the bottom without the dimple, but check it out for yourself in the forum and don't let your safety depend on my memory).

 

[tribalmasters]

I wonder how long one is to dunk them in the salt for? I guess until the meter says 0 volts? Hehe imagine if they exploded in the sink with the salt in , fiery bubbles!!

 

[Robert]

Saltwater or NO??

Shoot at them- if you can hit a CR2 at 20 paces- well your a good shot!

oh your in England? Salt water squirt gun?
lol
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seriously though----

5 volt vaping is saving me from smoking a probly lung cancer.

I used to drive an 18 year old motorcycle over 160 mmhp so nothing scares me.

but my fiance PV blowing up well that scares me so-

First thing I did this morning was drill vent holes in my fiance' new Pink Detonator with Red/Green LED's. Her's is the first to have vent holes. Now all Detonators will have vent holes- they are easy to add ( note- if your doing this also drill the schedual 40 pvc so it will also vent) this is a simple fix that will give you some peace of mind.

 

[DaMulta]

I wonder how long one is to dunk them in the salt for? I guess until the meter says 0 volts? Hehe imagine if they exploded in the sink with the salt in , fiery bubbles!!

YouTube - lithium bomb