Burning Cartomisers? Dangerous?-510/Kr808/4081...etc filler type cartos

[nicnac]

Flush'm & Rod'm. Can't go wrong there. I'm no plumber but I've seen those procedures do some wonders in many occasions.

Neo,
Your off the hook.
You were not the last one. I was.
The credit of all this discussion goes to you by stumbling into it. I do all my good thinking in the mornings also.

 

[Katya]

You guys crack me up!

 

[kodos96]

Hello all, first time poster to this thread. I try really hard to never post to a thread I haven't read all the way through, since it bugs me when other people do that.... I made a valiant effort to make it all the way - I'm currently up to page #100 (in June), but that's still only 1/3 of the way there, so I think I'm gonna have to make an exception.

First of all, to all the regulars of this thread, THANK YOU so much for putting in all this effort to find a solution to the burning carto problem! If it wasn't for you guys, I doubt anyone would be trying to improve things.

So basically my question is, can anyone give me, or point me to, a summary of where we stand on this issue currently (i.e. what's happened since June that I haven't gotten to yet). Has anyone considered putting this kind of info into a wiki, or something similar? If anyone is interested, I could potentially volunteer to help get something set up.

Let me summarize briefly what I've managed to absorb so far about the various options for a burn-free carto, please correct any errors or omissions:

Greencig: Essentially burn-free, but a major pain to refill, and doesn't perform very well on vapor/flavor/TH

Turbo/Mega/other high resistance cartos: Less prone to burning than other 808s, but not immune to the issue.

SmokeStik/various 4081s: As of June (where I've gotten to in the thread), it was still up in the air to what extent these are burn-free. It seems there's been some drama around this, and I really don't want to restart any drama, just want an objective summary of what was concluded on these.

CE2 (R4): These were mentioned to me as a new development on the burn-free front, but I haven't yet made it to the part of the thread where these popped up. Can someone summarize for me what the deal is with these, and/or point me to where in the thread discussion of these started, or other relevant links?

Joye cartos?: I haven't paid much attention to these, since I don't have any 510 hardware, but I'd be willing to switch if they're the holy grail. Are they?

Did I miss anything?

Again, thanks so much to everyone for putting in the time on this issue, and thanks in advance for any replies!

 

[Katya]

Hello and welcome, Kodos!

Drama? In June? Well, keep on reading, my friend!

Here's a brief summary (posts 2961, 2962 and 2963.)

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-etc-filler-type-cartos-297.html#post2144926

There's also some useful information in our Master thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...read-just-facts-maam-no-chit-chat-please.html

We talk about the new Joyetech and eGo cartomizers, and the E2 cartomizers, later in this thread. There is, of course, the giant E2 thread that is devoted solely to those cartos, but it's almost as long as this one already.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...kers-c-e2-r4-review-tips-info-help-video.html

This should keep you busy for a while. If you tell us more about your vaping preferences and the PV you're using, we'll be better able to assist you. Good luck!

And congratulations on your first 100 pages....

 

[Katya]

CE2 (R4): These were mentioned to me as a new development on the burn-free front, but I haven't yet made it to the part of the thread where these popped up. Can someone summarize for me what the deal is with these, and/or point me to where in the thread discussion of these started, or other relevant links?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-etc-filler-type-cartos-269.html#post2013585

We've been discussing those for quite some time, Br is our resident expert on the CE2 R4; he knows them inside out and I'm sure will be happy to answer your questions.

Holy Grail? Hmmm...

Joye cartos?: I haven't paid much attention to these, since I don't have any 510 hardware, but I'd be willing to switch if they're the holy grail. Are they?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-etc-filler-type-cartos-247.html#post1881792

LGD and Cozzicon are experts. There's also a useful thread about Joyetech cartos at Cignot's subforum:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/cignot/118618-joye-510-cartos.html

 

[kodos96]

Wow, that's a lot of info! I guess I shouldn't have wasted my time reading through as much of the thread as I did if you were gonna be so helpful in response to a summary request If only I'd started reading from the end instead of the beginning, I would have hit your "recommended" list really quick.... doh!

I haven't even had a chance to read any of the links you gave me yet except the first one, but one thing in that list jumps out at me: I'm surprised to see V4L CoolCarts listed alongside the high resistance carts.... These are the carts I'm currently using - I've only been vaping for 10 days (analog-free for 3 days!), and ordered a VK kit right before discovering the burning carto issue [seems like every time I try to type "carto" it comes out as "carot"... is that just me?]. At first I was thinking/hoping based on the name "CoolCart" that it might be a higher resistance unit equivalent to the Turbos/Megas... but I asked on the V4L subforum if that was the case and a V4L supplier associate replied that all their carts, both the WOWs and the CoolCarts, are lower than standard resistance. (see here , post #27). Does that supplier associate not know what he's talking about? Or have things changed?

Also, my CoolCarts seemed to develop the burnt taste pretty quickly - just a few hours of moderate vaping. Of course, I'm a newbie, so it's entirely possible that I'm just confusing the "carto needs refilling" taste with the "carto is burning" taste. Maybe I should try dissecting one to look for charring. If you add juice and that makes the burning taste go away, does that mean that it wasn't really burning in the first place, just dry? (I'm still concerned about the burning issue regardless of the answer to this - I want a cart that I won't be able to burn no matter how much I abuse it).

More to come as I read the rest of your links....

 

[ImYourSalt]

Welcome Kodos!

I'd love to answer some of your questions, but I'm very tired. I'm sure someone on duty will be by very soon.

I just dropped in to say a couple things, then im off to sleep.
So... I got an AVS, which kinda solves the burning carto issue.

But it tastes like metal. so not exactly a touchdown.
Also, I've been using an LR 510 carto on my riva almost all day, and have not burned it!
"Hello, My names Salt, and I'm a Carto Killer"
Probably shouldn't have said anything.

other than that, Bauway cartos still suck.

love you guys! (/gals/birds/kamikaze cats/kaunu reeves'/etc...)

 

[Katya]

Ah, V4L cartos! Finally a subject I'm an expert on! I found this thread shortly after V4L introduced their "New and Improved Premium Cartomizers" last spring. They tested two different kinds; one lower(2.0Ω) and one higher (~3.0Ω) resistance. They decided to go with the LR model and...how shall I put it politely, it wasn't a very wise choice. A 2.0Ω carto on a 3.7v+ battery in the hands of unsuspecting, mostly new, users, is a recipe for disaster. 'Nuff said. Big drama.

Enter the "New New and Improved Cartomizer," called the Turbo, introduced by Vapor Nine. The Turbo is being proclaimed the best kr808 carto in the world and everbody wants it. Enter Nhaler Mega, CigEasy's Gold Label, V4L CoolCarts. They all seem to be made by the same manufacturer. They are the HR version of the kr8 carto, rating, on average, between 3.0-3.4Ω. The rest is history.

I have no idea what the actual ohm reading on those V4L cartos is now, but when we tested them, the "premiums" measured 2.0Ω, the CCs--3.4Ω. I read that thread about Cool and WOW cartos... I'm not sure what the representative means by "standard', but his answer is imprecise, to say the least. The bottom line is, and that's just my guess, that the WOW cartos are the old 2.0Ω premium cartos that are being phased out and will eventually be replaced by HR CC cartos.

As for the burning, I ordered 2 boxes of each of the above mentioned cartos when they were first released, and I had the most luck with the Turbos. The first batches, those with hard, glued-on end caps, were absolutely perfect. But then the manufacturers started to overstuff them, and the burning problems reappeared.

Here's Nicnac's theory:

Those are great cartos. Well built. If they just weren't overstuffed, we would have had a winner.
Manufacturers overstuff their cartos so they can brag about their cartos holding a lot of juice.

Its all about the filler. Less filler = More breathing = less gunk buildup = better draw = better taste
The material has a big role also. It needs to be fluffy (not dense).
I believe all the fillers are made from the same material (Joye and Ego aside) and just in different density?
We need to demand from our suppliers (so they would demand from their suppliers) to disclose this info to the consumer. I am just getting tired of playing a guessing game with every product that hits the market. I have spent too much money on too many cartos that have ended up in trash.

I want to know what type of filler is used in a carto and how much of it. Yeah right. Good luck.

I happen to agree with him. In the meantime, keep them moist at all times. Top off early, before you think you need to, and top off often. If the filler seems dense, fluff it up with a long sewing needle to create extra airflow channels. Fill, at least for the first time, using the condom method from the battery end; remove the condom slowly, letting it pull out the extra juice from the center tube. Then let the carto rest, the longer the better, but at least a couple of hours. Then add some more juice from the mouth end, until the filler is fully saturated. And make sure that the center tube is centered; if it tilts to one side and comes close to the carto shell, it will get hot and eventually burn.

Whatever you do, don't listen to anything ImYourSalt tells you. He's our resident carto killer.

 

[nicnac]

Welcome Kodos!

I'd love to answer some of your questions, but I'm very tired. I'm sure someone on duty will be by very soon.

I just dropped in to say a couple things, then im off to sleep.
So... I got an AVS, which kinda solves the burning carto issue.

But it tastes like metal. so not exactly a touchdown.
Also, I've been using an LR 510 carto on my riva almost all day, and have not burned it!
"Hello, My names Salt, and I'm a Carto Killer"
Probably shouldn't have said anything.

other than that, Bauway cartos still suck.

love you guys! (/gals/birds/kamikaze cats/kaunu reeves'/etc...)

What the heck is that? Looks like its ready to be launched.
BTW: Would you like to share with us about which LR 510 carto you've been vaping all day without burning?

 

[Katya]

Welcome Kodos!

I'd love to answer some of your questions, but I'm very tired. I'm sure someone on duty will be by very soon.

I just dropped in to say a couple things, then im off to sleep.
So... I got an AVS, which kinda solves the burning carto issue.

But it tastes like metal. so not exactly a touchdown.
Also, I've been using an LR 510 carto on my riva almost all day, and have not burned it!
"Hello, My names Salt, and I'm a Carto Killer"
Probably shouldn't have said anything.

other than that, Bauway cartos still suck.

love you guys! (/gals/birds/kamikaze cats/kaunu reeves'/etc...)

Hehe! Salt, you're so going to jail... What on earth is this? It can't be legal....

Are you building an altar to the gods of vaping?

BTW, I know this cookbook! Must be a SoCal thing. How was the meet?

 

[Quick1]

So... I got an AVS, which kinda solves the burning carto issue.

I don't think I could lift that... do you just sort of lean over and vape it with it sitting on the coffee table?

 

[ImYourSalt]

Whatever you do, don't listen to anything ImYourSalt tells you. He's our resident carto killer.

It's OK Katya, you can take of the Kid Gloves!

And that my friends, Is a picture of my new GGTS w/AVS (GG Telescopic Storm w/ Automatic Vaping System).
Mine is actually one of only 2 ever made. Production models however, with everything pictured, plus batteries and a charger, are in the neighborhood of $300. VaporKings sells them in the US. But Imeothanasis from Greece makes them.

And that's not a cookbook! That picture was taken by Rippspeed at the meet in Long Beach yesterday. That's a menu, from Boston's. It's a Pizza joint.
The meet was great! Thanks for asking! Janet from the NVC made it, one again! We raffled a couple RIVA starter kits. Everyone got a drip tip! We gave the waitress an ego! And stay tuned for an off-the-cuff review of Swedish Fish, by Rippspeed. It's being edited. But I saw it live. Suffice to say, we had a blast!

Wanna see something I think is even cooler?
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/132663-all-my-mods-part1.html

The F Word. Yep... Click the link. Read it. Look at the pictures... First word That came to my mind anyway....

Also, Quick, mine is not as heavy as it appears. Though, production models are much lighter. Even with batteries and a full tank, the production models are probably close to 50% the weight of mine empty.

 

[Katya]

Kodos, just FYI. "Carto Killer" is a term of endearment and the highest compliment that can be bestowed upon a vaper (at least in this thread). Why do you think he turned pro? He's the best.

 

[ImYourSalt]

Awww


thanks

 

[Katya]

And that's not a cookbook! That picture was taken by Rippspeed at the meet in Long Beach yesterday. That's a menu, from Boston's. It's a Pizza joint.
The meet was great! Thanks for asking! Janet from the NVC made it, one again! We raffled a couple RIVA starter kits. Everyone got a drip tip! We gave the waitress an ego! And stay tuned for an off-the-cuff review of Swedish Fish, by Rippspeed. It's being edited. But I saw it live. Suffice to say, we had a blast!

Wanna see something I think is even cooler?
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/132663-all-my-mods-part1.html

The F Word. Yep... Click the link. Read it. Look at the pictures... First word That came to my mind anyway....

A menu? Ooops!

I want to see some pictures from the meet. I'm so glad you had fun.

And that Raidy guy, I know. I read the thread--I found the link through the E2 R4 thread, they were talking about it. I love that cigar thingy. I'd buy it in an instant, but the guy is not selling. He's telling me how to make it... My only hope is that Br will make me one of those for my birthday.

 

[nicnac]

Hey Katya,
I liked the two 510 LR cartos (clouds of Vapors) you sent me so much that I went ahead and ordered some.
These were SLB cartos with horizontal coils. I haven't been vaping SLB cartos in a long while. One thing I like about the SLBs is that they do not leak. You can drown them in juice. They still don't leak.
Anyway, They have a nice clean strong TH. A little bit overfilled.

I noticed that they have two kinds of 510 LR cartos at their site which are both rated between 1.8Ω & 2Ω. One is called "Low Resistance" which sells for $9.99. The other one is called "High Performance LR" which sells for $7.99.
So I went ahead and ordered one of each.

 

[kodos96]

Oh, I missed this part the first time

If you tell us more about your vaping preferences and the PV you're using, we'll be better able to assist you.

As a newbie, it's hard to say very much about might vaping preferences, not having much experience. I've only tried two e-cigs so far - my first was an E9. That got me started, but wasn't enough to get me entirely off the analogs, so on advice from ecf, I upgraded to a V4L 808, and have been pretty happy with it... hotter vapor, more pronounced flavor, better TH... it's gotten me off the analogs. I've tried both the CoolCarts and the WOWs - at least I think I have - I got one pack of CoolCarts, and one pack that are not labelled as either Cool or WOW, and the people on the V4L subforum say that those might be either, or a mix of both, depending on what they needed to clear out of stock. A few of those, however, seem to have noticeably higher vapor production and flavor than the others, so I'm assuming they're WOWs. I liked those the best, but the CoolCarts are pretty good too, so they're what I've been using since I started reading this thread and getting paranoid about burning.

So it would seem that in terms of flavor and vaping experience, I prefer a lower resistance carto. But at the same time, I'm really paranoid about burning my cartos and inhaling possibly toxic smoke. Conflicting goals, I know. If I had to choose one to prioritize, I think I'd have to err on the side of caution. And I really don't want to have to be constantly topping off my cartos - I want something that I can just vape until it's dry, without worrying that I'm gonna burn it. For now I'm doing the topping off thing, but I'd really like to move to cartos where I don't have to worry about that so much.

I never tried a 510 because I wanted a 2 piece system (and wasn't aware of the existence of 510 cartomizers), and because from what I read it sounded like 510s are best known for producing a lot of volume of vapor, but a cooler, less flavorful vapor, which is not what I want. But is that not true anymore, with the new 510 cartomizers? I'm happy with my 808 (aside from fears about burning), but I'm open to the idea of abandoning my 808 gear and switching to something else if that's what I need to do to get a good vape while maintaining peace of mind that I'm not smoking polyfill.

OK, I'm off to continue reading your links. Thanks for the warm welcome!

 

[Katya]

Hey Katya,
I liked the two 510 LR cartos (clouds of Vapors) you sent me so much that I went ahead and ordered some.
These were SLB cartos with horizontal coils. I haven't been vaping SLB cartos in a long while. One thing I like about the SLBs is that they do not leak. You can drown them in juice. They still don't leak.
Anyway, They have a nice clean strong TH. A little bit overfilled.

I noticed that they have two kinds of 510 LR cartos at their site which are both rated between 1.8Ω & 2Ω. One is called "Low Resistance" which sells for $9.99. The other one is called "High Performance LR" which sells for $7.99.
So I went ahead and ordered one of each.

Good, I'm glad you liked them. The High Performance LR must be new. I don't remember seeing them when I was shopping there. Kent recommended them, with reservations, as he said they didn't last as long as his LR cartos from ProVapes. I liked them, but they were a bit hot for my taste. I like a cooler vape with my lightly flavored juices.

BTW, I checked Ross's website today and noticed that he now carries the LR Boge 510 cartos.

And here's one more thing that should go into the Master List:

Electronic Cigarette Coupon Code Master List - Electronic Cigarette Forum

And speaking of the Master List. If any of you want to add some more info or change anything on the recommended cartos list, please let me know. I'll make all the changes and ask LGD to move the lists to the Master thread. Do you think we should include GreenCig?

 

[nicnac]

Good, I'm glad you liked them. The High Performance LR must be new. I don't remember seeing them when I was shopping there. Kent recommended them, with reservations, as he said they didn't last as long as his LR cartos from ProVapes.

COV LR cartos are the same as the Provape cartos?

 

[Katya]

COV LR cartos are the same as the Provape cartos?

They probably are now, if they both carry SLB and Boge... But the cartos Kent likes are 1.6Ω and are no longer available, at least not at the moment. Did you miss this post?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-etc-filler-type-cartos-300.html#post2150096