Burning Cartomisers? Dangerous?-510/Kr808/4081...etc filler type cartos

[Katya]

To Katya - the tank fits on the Tornado, Janty eGo, HG eGo, and Riva. If you don't have a need to turn off the button on the battery, you certainly could get by with just the attys and tanks. And you're welcome on the Chuck Leavell (of Allman Bros. fame and SeaLevel, and his great piano work on "Alberta" on Clapton's unplugged cd) version of O Tannenbaum from a fairly obscure CD that he first only sent out to friends for one Xmas but was then picked up by the label for the public. A bunch of good songs on the 'What's in the Bag' CD


Alberta:

Thanks for your answers (and for the music ).

Have you, or Scottbee, tried to dry burn the atty? I'm a little concerned about the cleaning. I understand that the atty coil is not accessible, but I recall that some brave soul, somewhere, attempted a dry burning procedure and was able to monitor the process--the glowing coil actually became visible once heated. I saw a video... If/when I remember where I saw it, I'll post a link.

EDIT: Here you go:

Pay attention gal. You already have the one I sent to you. Surely you didn't throw it away, heheh. The inside of it looks exactly like the photos that Kelemvor posted.

Maybe we see things different. The parts in his photos look completely different than the parts in my photos.

Aaahhh... No, it doesn't (look like the Kelemvor's picture.) I'm paying attention now.

I took your carto for a test drive. It metered 3.2Ω, rather questionable tobacco flavor, horizontal coil. It burned after 3 or 4 top offs.... This is what it looks like inside:

The funny thing is that the photo above is of my old 4081 Trueman... The same sticker, three tubes/straws, the same burned wicking material. They look alike, but didn't perform alike. My Trueman lasted for days and multiple refills. Go figure.

Now, mind you, I used blunt force to extract the guts of my Trueman, so I can't tell how the horizontal coil was mounted. I do not own a pipe cutter... Do I need to get one now?

 

[Quick1]

I do not own a pipe cutter... Do I need to get one now?

You have a CE2 right?

pipe cutter (small)
needle nose pliers (set of 3, small to micro)
tweezers (long, pointed)
sutures (locking, medium and small)
butane/propane torch (small)
wood working clamps (set of 2, small)
small vice (detachable ok)
4 oz ball peen hammer
center punch (set of 3, small)
multimeter
calipers (digital display with in/mm)
soldering iron (minimum 30W -- to handle brass)
dremel tool
hot glue gun (optional)

and you're good to go for carefree vaping!

 

[br5495]

You have a CE2 right?

pipe cutter (small)
needle nose pliers (set of 3, small to micro)
tweezers (long, pointed)
sutures (locking, medium and small)
butane/propane torch (small)
wood working clamps (set of 2, small)
small vice (detachable ok)
4 oz ball peen hammer
center punch (set of 3, small)
multimeter
calipers (digital display with in/mm)
soldering iron (minimum 30W -- to handle brass)
dremel tool
hot glue gun (optional)

and you're good to go for carefree vaping!

What do you need to build a genisis for carefree vaping?

 

[zelda]

You have a CE2 right?

pipe cutter (small)
needle nose pliers (set of 3, small to micro)
tweezers (long, pointed)
sutures (locking, medium and small)
butane/propane torch (small)
wood working clamps (set of 2, small)
small vice (detachable ok)
4 oz ball peen hammer
center punch (set of 3, small)
multimeter
calipers (digital display with in/mm)
soldering iron (minimum 30W -- to handle brass)
dremel tool
hot glue gun (optional)

and you're good to go for carefree vaping!

Thanks Quick you make it sound so easy.

And thanks Kent and Scottbee for the great reviews I was wondering how those Ego-Ts would perform.

 

[Quick1]

What do you need to build a genisis for carefree vaping?

4" duct tape. (and you knew you were going to build it before you bought it )

 

[Scottbee]

With regards to "dry-burning" the Tank.... yes, it can be done. I ran the quick experiment on the unit that I have the other night after doing a water-rinse.. and I was certainly able to discern the "glow".. both around the tank piercing/feeder bar and through the hole in the center of the piercing needle. That being said.. I probably SHOULDN'T have been able to see the glow through the piercing needle... which may be part of the problem with my specific unit.

I have (somewhat sadly, somewhat with disdain and anger) had to retire my Tank unit and I will not be using it anymore. Therefore I will not be able to determine the ultimate lifespan of my particular atty. Reason: I loaded the unit up with some fairly thick TV liquid last night and left it in the vertical position. This morning, upon inspection, I noted that the entire tank contents had leaked thorough the unit... down along the side of the battery, and also into the button hole. It is a sticky, nasty mess.. not to mention the puddle on my desk.

There is simply no reason to go any further and to do any additional testing. The performance of the specific unit that I received is completely unacceptable and it wouldn't be suitable as a PV... for either the novice or experienced vaporer. Had I paid good $'s for this atomizer I would certainly be a disgruntled consumer. As it is, I am simply an unimpressed reviewer.

Nice battery though.... ;-)

 

[ScottB]

You have a CE2 right?

pipe cutter (small)
needle nose pliers (set of 3, small to micro)
tweezers (long, pointed)
sutures (locking, medium and small)
butane/propane torch (small)
wood working clamps (set of 2, small)
small vice (detachable ok)
4 oz ball peen hammer
center punch (set of 3, small)
multimeter
calipers (digital display with in/mm)
soldering iron (minimum 30W -- to handle brass)
dremel tool
hot glue gun (optional)

and you're good to go for carefree vaping!

Beautiful… but you forgot a precision screwdriver set for easy ring removal…

My CE2 carefree vaping list is much shorter, but that wasn’t your point…

I’ve watched your work over in genesis land. I’m glad it’s working for ya… but your requirements list is longer yet – and the far & away vast vaping majority isn’t going to build a genesis.

As a practical exercise, including your labor, (at the wage scale of your choice), raw material procurement w/ shipping, & incidentals, what is the cost-per-complete-functional-unit for your device? And what is the cost of replacing the mesh/kanthal? I’m also curious about the progress toward a useful mesh-cleaning/maintenance process, or lack thereof.

Don’t get me wrong. The genesis folks are onto something there. But I can’t see Katya, peering through jewelers’ loupes, winding kanthal around a processed mesh coil… Imperfect as they are, there is truly very little effort or finesse required to use, improve, or mod a CE2.

I know… apples & oranges… but you get the drift…

 

[br5495]

Aaahhh... No, it doesn't (look like the Kelemvor's picture.) I'm paying attention now.

I took your carto for a test drive. It metered 3.2Ω, rather questionable tobacco flavor, horizontal coil. It burned after 3 or 4 top offs.... This is what it looks like inside:

The funny thing is that the photo above is of my old 4081 Trueman... The same sticker, three tubes/straws, the same burned wicking material. They look alike, but didn't perform alike. My Trueman lasted for days and multiple refills. Go figure.

Now, mind you, I used blunt force to extract the guts of my Trueman, so I can't tell how the horizontal coil was mounted. I do not own a pipe cutter... Do I need to get one now?

I didn't think you would actually use that thing, heheh. Seems like I remember telling you the tobacco flavor in it was awful. Sometimes I topped off a good number of times with them. Sometimes not. I didn't know what I was doing back then and it felt like I set a few on fire.

The filler can be removed fairly easy from this type without damaging the coil. That's how I learned about dry burning. After that it can be used for dripping, and that's when I learned about that.

Apparently several vendors sold these things under different names. Mine were sold for Knight Sticks.

I can't say one way or another about you getting a tube cutter. It can be a bit tricky learning to use one on the tube of a cartomizer. I don't use one to take a cartomizer apart. I pull the base fitting out of the tube along with the guts. This allows it to be put back together if need be.

 

[Quick1]

Beautiful… but you forgot a precision screwdriver set for easy ring removal…

My CE2 carefree vaping list is much shorter, but that wasn’t your point…

I’ve watched your work over in genesis land. I’m glad it’s working for ya… but your requirements list is longer yet – and the far & away vast vaping majority isn’t going to build a genesis.

As a practical exercise, including your labor, (at the wage scale of your choice), raw material procurement w/ shipping, & incidentals, what is the cost-per-complete-functional-unit for your device? And what is the cost of replacing the mesh/kanthal? I’m also curious about the progress toward a useful mesh-cleaning/maintenance process, or lack thereof.

Don’t get me wrong. The genesis folks are onto something there. But I can’t see Katya, peering through jewelers’ loupes, winding kanthal around a processed mesh coil… Imperfect as they are, there is truly very little effort or finesse required to use, improve, or mod a CE2.

I know… apples & oranges… but you get the drift…

Oh, I wouldn't promote the genisis for anyone not into modding or a hobbyist. The "consumer product" version does not exist at the moment. If and when someone puts them into production I think they're just the ticket. At the moment they are only a "build it yourself kit". (I've never brought it up, br did -->). Since you asked though, we can take a short interlude from the business of this thread

Complete cost for my particular unit is about $120. I'd say that is the top end. I bought very finely machined, aluminum parts that someone was having done at single piece prices in a machine shop. I'd expect a completed, assembled unit, in production volumes, to cost about $5 to $10 to make and probably sell for $50 - $75 (<-- wild guesses). Others are making their own components from other materials and very much less expensive.

They are not disposable devices. They should be expected to last a lifetime. The beauty of them is that they are totally customizeable/adjustable to your personal preference and use (and there are no burnable components -- see, we're sort of on topic ). The user serviceable components are stainless steel cloth and kanthal wire.
I got three A4 sized sheets of the SS mesh for ~$25 shipped. I would expect each sheet to produce at least 125 "wicks".
I got 75' of kanthal for ~$5 shipped. I use just over 1" for a coil.

I experimented with cleaning the mesh. Tried torching it. Restored it for about 1/3 of it's first use (can be done indefinitely). Tried just unrolling it and boiling it. Pretty much restored it completely. Repeated rolling and unrolling causes fraying and it would give out eventually. In either case it wasn't even close to being worth the effort. For less than $0.10 and about 1/10th the time you just do a brand new one. Same with the kanthal. Not worth the time to be careful unwinding it and wiping it off -- just wrap with new.

I was getting about 4ml through it before it started to clog but I was experimenting with draw, heat, kanthal gauge, mesh gauge, rolled tight/loose, etc., I've homed in on what's ideal for my preference (and preferred juice at the moment) and I've 8ml through it with no discernable change. I've been alternating between doing a cigarette type of drag (draw into mouth first, then inhale. small air hole) and a direct inhale (very large air hole). For the moment I've been liking the direct inhale. Drag is set to where I can effortlessly fill my lungs (completely) in about 2 seconds with very dense vapor. With the mesh and kanthal (ohms and wraps -- area of wick covered) the TH is to my liking of being just below making me cough. Current configuration:
#400 mesh, 20 mm rolled to 2.1 mm dia.
0.20 mm kanthal w/6 wraps (~1.9Ω)

So it's a combination of air flow, wicking, heat, area covered by the coil, all to match the juice you prefer and the way you prefer to suck it in. Any and/or all of that can be changed in a matter of 5 minutes.

What do I use now that I've built it?
needle nose pliers (I used the nut end, others have screws)
scissors
multimeter (to check ohms before first firing after changing mesh/coil)
I do use a syringe to fill it once a day

 

[ournature]

I intend to load the 'clear' one with PG based BWB (25% VG) and see how that goes.

Hi Kent C,
i started a specific Ego Tank thread few weeks ago,
It would be cool if you could post the result of your 25%VG test on that thread and also further opinions or issues you may encounter going on with testing the ego-t.
I've got 4 atomizers (two with my kit and two spares).
They don't perfom exactly the same way... the first one i started using 20 days ago is almost perfect with various different juices i'd say.
But i have 2 atties that do not wick very well until the tank is half way of its capacity when used with a 70/30 PG/VG ratio for example, they works better with an all PG juice though..
I made the dryburn video posted above, i successfully was able to clean my first atty after 25ml vaped.
I have a friend who popped it with a dryburn though.

 

[Quick1]

down along the side of the battery, and also into the button hole.

Lol, same forces in effect that cause the toast to always hit the floor butter side down

 

[Katya]

You have a CE2 right?

pipe cutter (small)
needle nose pliers (set of 3, small to micro)
tweezers (long, pointed)
sutures (locking, medium and small)
butane/propane torch (small)
wood working clamps (set of 2, small)
small vice (detachable ok)
4 oz ball peen hammer
center punch (set of 3, small)
multimeter
calipers (digital display with in/mm)
soldering iron (minimum 30W -- to handle brass)
dremel tool
hot glue gun (optional)

and you're good to go for carefree vaping!

On my way to Home Depot. BRB.

Nice battery though.... ;-)

It is, isn't it?

So sorry, Scott. But thanks for the review. Looks like we'll have to wait a bit longer for our 'dream cartomizer'. But who knows, maybe the Tesla will be introduced soon?

But I can’t see Katya, peering through jewelers’ loupes, winding kanthal around a processed mesh coil…

Oh ye of little faith. Just watch me.

I didn't think you would actually use that thing, heheh. Seems like I remember telling you the tobacco flavor in it was awful. Sometimes I topped off a good number of times with them. Sometimes not. I didn't know what I was doing back then and it felt like I set a few on fire.

Apparently several vendors sold these things under different names. Mine were sold for Knight Sticks.

I most certainly did try it, thank you. It worked fine for awhile, albeit a tad weak on the eGo. Knight Sticks? Funny, I like the design, and I loved the Truemans with horizontal coils. This one just didn't last. QC? Or maybe it wasn't a true Trueman....

I can't say one way or another about you getting a tube cutter. It can be a bit tricky learning to use one on the tube of a cartomizer. I don't use one to take a cartomizer apart. I pull the base fitting out of the tube along with the guts. This allows it to be put back together if need be.

Forget the trip to Home Depot? All I need is a vise and some muscle?

 

[Kent C]

I have (somewhat sadly, somewhat with disdain and anger) had to retire my Tank unit and I will not be using it anymore. Therefore I will not be able to determine the ultimate lifespan of my particular atty. Reason: I loaded the unit up with some fairly thick TV liquid last night and left it in the vertical position. This morning, upon inspection, I noted that the entire tank contents had leaked thorough the unit... down along the side of the battery, and also into the button hole. It is a sticky, nasty mess.. not to mention the puddle on my desk.

After you mentioning the vertical thing, I stood one up with the one tank in the eGo. I also 'prefilled' the other tank put the rubber cap on layed it down horizontally.. and in the morning the vertical tank in the eGo did not leak, bone dry... however, all the ejuice ran out of the tank that I had prefilled?!? see:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-etc-filler-type-cartos-348.html#post2413909

Still in reloading that tank and then loading it into the eGo tonight, again no leaks. I'm going to fill that one up tonight and leave it vertical to see if it leaks in the morning. Also checking for moisture on the outside of the blue tank I didn't find any this time. I'm wondering what the tolerance is, if any, when it's fully seated wrt the metal disc where the piercing needle is.

I also tried a dry burn and while I could see a bit of a glow on the outer edges of the 'disc' - I couldn't see any through the piercing needle. Since I'm not sure of the exact configuration under the metal disc as to where exactly everything is, I'll likely just clean with 151 vodka, but so far the flavors have been flawless - ie. not in need of cleaning.

So in conclusion, I haven't had any leaks when the tank is hooked up to the eGo batt and getting regular good flavor and vapor. But the prefilled tank left out by itself overnight with the rubber cap on totally leaked out. I'm considering taking a regular cartomizer .... plug and trying that because that would be something that you'd want to do in the course of using these - have one in the chamber and one or more with different flavors perhaps ready to go.

 

[br5495]

Forget the trip to Home Depot? All I need is a vise and some muscle?

and an old battery to hold it in the vise.

 

[Scottbee]

After you mentioning the vertical thing, I stood one up with the one tank in the eGo. I also 'prefilled' the other tank put the rubber cap on layed it down horizontally.. and in the morning the vertical tank in the eGo did not leak, bone dry... however, all the ejuice ran out of the tank that I had prefilled?!? Still in reloading that tank and then loading it into the eGo tonight, again no leaks. I'm going to fill that one up tonight and leave it vertical to see if it leaks in the morning. Also checking for moisture on the outside of the blue tank I didn't find any this time. I'm wondering what the tolerance is, if any, when it's fully seated wrt the metal disc where the piercing needle is.

I also tried a dry burn and while I could see a bit of a glow on the outer edges of the 'disc' - I couldn't see any through the piercing needle. Since I'm not sure of the exact configuration under the metal disc as to where exactly everything is, I'll likely just clean with 151 vodka, but so far the flavors have been flawless - ie. not in need of cleaning.

So in conclusion, I haven't had any leaks when the tank is hooked up to the eGo batt and getting regular good flavor and vapor. But the prefilled tank left out by itself overnight with the rubber cap on totally leaked out. I'm considering taking a regular cartomizer .... plug and trying that because that would be something that you'd want to do in the course of using these - have one in the chamber and one or more with different flavors perhaps ready to go.

I don't think there is any doubt that the specific unit that I got is "defective". It is not performing as advertised.. and it is also not performing like the units that others have received. It's just a leaky dud.

No big deal if it is a very rare occurrence and there is a good importer and/or manufacturer backing up the warranty claims. OTOH.... if the frequency of this type of "defect" is high.... then I feel for the distributors.

 

[Kent C]

Hi Kent C,
i started a specific Ego Tank thread few weeks ago,
It would be cool if you could post the result of your 25%VG test on that thread and also further opinions or issues you may encounter going on with testing the ego-t.
I've got 4 atomizers (two with my kit and two spares).
They don't perfom exactly the same way... the first one i started using 20 days ago is almost perfect with various different juices i'd say.
But i have 2 atties that do not wick very well until the tank is half way of its capacity when used with a 70/30 PG/VG ratio for example, they works better with an all PG juice though..
I made the dryburn video posted above, i successfully was able to clean my first atty after 25ml vaped.
I have a friend who popped it with a dryburn though.

I posted links to my posts here on that thread.

And to you and Katya - re: dryburn. I didn't get that type of immediate response on the dry burn. Perhaps the 'fluff/wick' was still too saturated - although I tailpiped it out of flavor first. Since mine is working fine - in battery - I'll likely not try another, esp. if you have a friend that popped on doing it. Again, there was no need for it but this is a 'test'... but I'm liking the results on mine esp. on the flavor front. This really gives the cleanest vape and I've vaped with almost all models of the E2 Vx.... There is a metal taste I can get with some of those versions - the E2 V2 being the cleanest, imo. I never had a problem with the non-porcelean versions and the ohms were lower too.

I should also point out that my standard vape has been with the eGo/Tornado/Riva (I have all three) with the mega eGo atty and cart. The cart filler is better/cleaner than most imo. (although the mega carto and the newer Joye 510 carto uses the same filler - it isn't as stringy as the regular 510, imo.) And I've also tried the LR 1.5Ω mega eGo attys and prefer the regular 2.1-2.2Ω attys for flavor. You will however get a bit better vapor with the higher wattage of the 1.5Ω ... d'uh I've also tried the 1.5Ω (and the 1.7,1.8, 1.9 regular size attys and cartos from Provapes and Cloudsofvapor using the cone with those and again, while more vapor, I still prefer the mega eGo attys or these tanks over those on flavor alone. It took a while to figure that out... Plus I lost one eGo batt from a 1.5 mega eGo atty blowing out. I don't have the tech knowledge to fix the MOSFET like Scott. :-\

 

[Kent C]

I don't think there is any doubt that the specific unit that I got is "defective". It is not performing as advertised.. and it is also not performing like the units that others have received. It's just a leaky dud.

No big deal if it is a very rare occurrence and there is a good importer and/or manufacturer backing up the warranty claims. OTOH.... if the frequency of this type of "defect" is high.... then I feel for the distributors.

Too bad because I know you'd probably like the operation, but I also know that you have your own setup at a higher wattage that works well for you, so I don't know even if you had a good one that it would break into a 'regular vape' for you.

And... I'm with you on the 'frequency of defect' aspect. If this goes the way of E2, I'll pass, like I should have on those. lol. ...while still using one on the wetbox. But only there.

 

[ournature]

however, all the ejuice ran out of the tank that I had prefilled?!?

Kent, did you checked the rubber cap had the two 'snags' lined with the tank air channels when you put it in place?
Also the plastic cap has to be in place of course...but i guess you did it, right?

This really gives the cleanest vape

i agree, i am a fan of ego mega atties (2.2) too.
My ego tank has about same clean taste or even little better than mega atties.

 

[Kent C]

ournature:Kent, did you checked the rubber cap had the two 'snags' lined with the tank air channels when you put it in place?
Also the plastic cap has to be in place of course...but i guess you did it, right?

ournature, I would like to say yes, but I can't with certainty. It is the first thing I thought of after I took off the rubber cap ... but AFTER I took it off. Next time - and I plan on trying it again (first without a plug) and putting it in a bowl instead on my nice oak side table... and making sure the two 'bumps' align - however, I note that the 'grooves' in the body of the tank are not carried onto the plastic cap and that could be a problem - since the internal bumps go all the way to the top. We'll see.



i agree, i am a fan of ego mega atties (2.2) too.
My ego tank has about same clean taste or even little better than mega atties.

Exactly my sense. The flavors are clean with the tank and the mega eGo atty/carts were cleaner than anything prior, but the tank wins this one on flavor. At least one other person is having this same experience on flavor and no leaks, btw. Quality ejuice producers will like the tank. Others perhaps not so much All of this under the assumption that there is not a wide range of quality in the tanks/attys, once production starts, of course.

 

[mauzey]

Kent, did you checked the rubber cap had the two 'snags' lined with the tank air channels when you put it in place?
Also the plastic cap has to be in place of course...but i guess you did it, right?



i agree, i am a fan of ego mega atties (2.2) too.
My ego tank has about same clean taste or even little better than mega atties.

I Love the eGo Mega attys, but my new eGo Tank will be replacing them now, I like the flavor better and I am getting more milage out of the Tank. I have not been bothered by the leaking issues yet, I have mine bouncing around in my coat pocket all day.