EU Calling for ban of sale of e-cigs in UK

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James

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According to Yahoo News there is a call to ban electronic cigarettes - it seems just from sale to children (I don't know anyone who sells it to children anyway). The story is here: uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090313/tuk-call-to-ban-sale-of-e-cigarettes-6323e80.html

The main concern seems to be the liquid nicotine in refills, which it says could be lethal to children.
 

e-pipeman

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Taelon

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How do You ensure this with an online-shop?

There's no such statement on Your startpage and You do not even request birthday data here:
https://www.ivapour.co.uk/customer/account/create/

Webforms, Fax copies of passports can easily be faked, if You want to ensure >18 years You need to use a postal ident age verify service or request qualified electronic signatures (1999/93/EC) from U.S. CLASS IV X.509 security certificates containing birth data for online-shop login.

Cigarette automat boxes on the street require EC chipcard or passport readers in DE (should be same in UK), so You can only avoid a ban if You match same access security, sorry.

Well, but EC cards and passports can be passed on to <18 people and automat boxes here do not request EC card pin entry (adult will think 2x before passing on EC bankcard + pin), hmm, insecure ;)
 
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surbitonPete

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I have just watched jason cropper of the Electronic cig company being interviewed (and vaping his e-cig at the same time) on the BBC news with another guy who is calling for the sale of E-cigs to be banned to under 18's. ..Jason defended the E-cig very well ....pointed out all the efforts they are making with safety..like childproof bottles, warning labels and that no-one is irresponsibly marketing these as being for sale to under 18's.....The guy calling for the ban to under 18 was basically only upset because there is actually no 'law' to prevent them being sold to under 18.
 

Taelon

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The guy calling for the ban to under 18 was basically only upset because there is actually no 'law' to prevent them being sold to under 18.

Lawyers discussion, I think yes, there is. It's covered by general child protection law.
Any judge will rule so on request...
 
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MonkeyMonk

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I think you might not get it because it's probably BBC news 24 'UK' . rather than BBC world news.......we need some good writers sending in some e-mails.

Sorry, I can't link to the thread because I'm retreving it from a saved notepad on my desktop. Maybe someone can post the link to the original thread in which Tropical Bob wrote this (He also said to paraphrase it and not to use it word for word because paraphrasing would give the letter/email more value/weight):

"To whom it may concern:
When considering the electronic cigarette, please consider these facts:
1. The e-cig, as it's popularly known, was invented in China in 2004 and has been marketed since that time. In the past year, hundreds of thousands of smokers around the world have purchased and used e-cigs, to either quit an addictive cigarette habit or use an e-device in place of cigarettes.
2. Not one headline-making health event has been reported about e-smokers. With all the present users, if e-cigs presented any imminent danger, that danger should have surfaced by now. None has.
3. The device is simple and not prone to dangerous malfunction. It is far safer than even fire-safe cigarettes.
4. The liquid is a mix, often containing nicotine, along with propylene glycol to produce vapor and carry the nicotine content. Propylene glycol was tested more than half-century ago for inhalation by mice, primates and humans. No harmful effects were found in studies. Indeed, propylene glycol was a "germ-killing vapor" that protected those inhaling it from deadly diseases.
5. Nicotine, in the amounts used for e-smoking, has a physiological effect similar to that of consuming a moderate amount of caffeine. It is a stimulant/relaxant. It has both known benefits and hazards. The amount of nicotine consumed while e-smoking is far less than that consumed by smoking a tobacco cigarette, however. E-smoking is thus less unhealthy if direct comparisons are made to cigarettes.
6. The e-cig came to market without regulation on the assumption by manufacturers that it was a safe product not needing regulation. Nothing since 2004 has proven that assumption erroneous. Real-world use of e-cigs, in fact, supports the accuracy of that assumption. These are both safe and effective, as proven by the hundreds of thousands of present users.
Considering these facts and the almost certain fact that e-smoking is safer than tobacco use, the devices and liquids should remain available for those seeking an alternative to tobacco cigarettes, while further study on the need for regulation is undertaken.
Sincerely ....
Now, a form letter won't do much of anything, so anyone desiring to be heard on e-smoking needs to make relevant points in their own letter. No finger-pointing of conspiracy (that FDA Nazi pix will sure win 'em over!!!). Be rational, recognize their right and mission to oversee this country's drug market, and hope the present situation will be allowed as more studies are undertaken."
 

Taelon

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BBC world news.......we need some good writers sending in some e-mails.

Yes, let's brainstorm for more points like this:

Well, but EC bankcards and passports can be passed on to <18 people and cigarette automat boxes here do not request EC card pin entry (adult will think 2x before passing on EC bankcard + pin), hmm, child-insecure ;)

EU-Authorities cannot demand more security from our sellers if they let leak the tobacco industry thru that way above.
 
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Taelon

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Toby

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How do You ensure this with an online-shop?

There's no such statement on Your startpage and You do not even request birthday data here:
https://www.ivapour.co.uk/customer/account/create/

Webforms, Fax copies of passports can easily be faked, if You want to ensure >18 years You need to use a postal ident age verify service or request qualified electronic signatures (1999/93/EC) from U.S. CLASS IV X.509 security certificates containing birth data for online-shop login.

Cigarette automat boxes on the street require EC chipcard or passport readers in DE (should be same in UK), so You can only avoid a ban if You match same access security, sorry.

Well, but EC cards and passports can be passed on to <18 people and automat boxes here do not request EC card pin entry (adult will think 2x before passing on EC bankcard + pin), hmm, insecure ;)

This is something we will presumably have to look into - we do of course have a checkbox in the checkout, underneath a section showing all the terms and conditions, when making a purchase, that the buyer is over 18 years of age.
 

deewal

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It was on BBC Teletex earlier on today but it's gone now.
The gist was that Trading Standard wan't "Electronic Cigarettes" to be regulated so that they have warnings on them because they may be unsafe and that they should have the ingredients on the liquid? or cartridges? and cannot be sold to people under 18. (who ai'nt gonna buy them anyway 'cause cigs are cheaper from there local dealer)
Basicly they don't know what the hell they are but they don't want them to be sold to under 18's. This stems from people selling them on stalls to anyone who want's one.
Jason's Products as far as i can see meet all their requirements. I don't see any more he can do.
Trading Standards have had a red flag waved at them and they are responding.
It was only a matter of time.
Most ordinary people don't give a ****.
I think TS wan't warnings written on the actual E-Cig and wan't the same curbs on where they can be used as cigarettes have.
I don't think TS are calling for an all out ban............................Yet.
 

Oliver

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Just out of curiousity and sorry if it sounds ignorant but how do "porn" companies and the like avoid internet/online sales to those under 18? Couldn't the e-cig companies replicate what they do? :confused:


Nope, doesn't sound ignorant - it's just another elephant in the room that no-one bothers discussing anymore.

The simple answer is, they don't. The assumption is that if you have a credit card, you are over 18, but anyone knows that you can see the most explicit material for no cost whatsoever.

However, this is not a reason not to ensure that products do not get sold to those to whom it is inappropriate.

I'm not sure you can ever guarantee that the purchaser is of correct age, all you can do as a supplier is put in place whatever safeguards are available.

Seems to me that Jason has been exemplary in doing whatever has been asked of him. Good on him.
 
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