Can any one simplify the YiHi joules temp control

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No, retird, your head is not thick . . . your gut is telling you it won’t work that way, and your gut is correct. Either there’s more going on in the chip than “joules control” for temperature control, or it really isn’t doing temperature control. Your supplier said it “clamps down,” but since joules are watt-seconds, it is either clamping watts or clamping time, and if it is doing the latter, they can make more money off it.

I suspect it works the way eVolv’s does, and they’re just not wanting to say it, and aren’t displaying the power oscillations on the screen. The thing is, the way they’re saying it works won’t. As I stated a few posts ago, air flow and juice flow are significant, variable inputs in the coil temperature equation.

Glad you’re getting a good vape from it, that is what makes me think there’s more to that chip than they say.
 

retird

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No, retird, your head is not thick . . . your gut is telling you it won’t work that way, and your gut is correct. Either there’s more going on in the chip than “joules control” for temperature control, or it really isn’t doing temperature control. Your supplier said it “clamps down,” but since joules are watt-seconds, it is either clamping watts or clamping time, and if it is doing the latter, they can make more money off it.

I suspect it works the way eVolv’s does, and they’re just not wanting to say it, and aren’t displaying the power oscillations on the screen. The thing is, the way they’re saying it works won’t. As I stated a few posts ago, air flow and juice flow are significant, variable inputs in the coil temperature equation.

Glad you’re getting a good vape from it, that is what makes me think there’s more to that chip than they say.

I don't have one... not available yet... as far as I know...
 

Marc411

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retird, thanks for the videos. I will wait until the first release rolls out and check out the reviews. I already own two of the SX mini's and like them both so I'll most likely own one with TP since the performance has been great on the one's I own. I prefer the functions of the SX chip, it's simply a personal choice. If the chip is glitch free and works as advertised it should be a popular device. There will most likely be a learning curve but there was one with the Evolv chip too.

Since moving to Ti the my DNA device is much more pleasurable to use. Ti will be my first build on the SX mini so we'll see how that works.
 

retird

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retird, thanks for the videos. I will wait until the first release rolls out and check out the reviews. I already own two of the SX mini's and like them both so I'll most likely own one with TP since the performance has been great on the one's I own. I prefer the functions of the SX chip, it's simply a personal choice. If the chip is glitch free and works as advertised it should be a popular device. There will most likely be a learning curve but there was one with the Evolv chip too.

Since moving to Ti the my DNA device is much more pleasurable to use. Ti will be my first build on the SX mini so we'll see how that works.

I contacted Yihi a couple days ago to see about getting a J board so I can personally put it thru it's paces....no reply yet....and yes there is a learning curve going from VW to TC but you will have benefit of the already available information for TC....
 

cobalt327

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I just hope Yihi has a handle on TP and can supply the industry w/a reliable TP board. BTW, the screen is big on the 350J, and bigger on the SX330V4S. Not wild about "joules" but nothing that can't be gotten used to I suppose- even if it's incorrectly applied (gotta have a time factor to make joules applicable). I first thought they had applied an 'average' length of time per draw but that doesn't wash either. Looking at it another way, they could call it anything they want. I agree w/those who think it's nothing more than a marketing ploy, but it's bye me why they'd choose to use joules.

ETA, joules is not a deal breaker for me. The board has enough going for it to allow me to overlook that. Things like USB upgradeable (what a concept)... that all top shelf boards should be capable of in my opinion.
 
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dr g

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I agree w/those who think it's nothing more than a marketing ploy, but it's bye me why they'd choose to use joules.

Well one big reason could be the fact that variable wattage is patented in the US. Though switching units to joules won't stop the patent from being violated, so it would be a misguided move. Not that that would be surprising.
 
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ThunderDan

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Well one big reason could be the fact that variable wattage is patented in the US. Though switching units to joules won't stop the patent from being violated, so it would be a misguided move. Not that that would be surprising.

That has never stopped them in the past. Also these devices still have VW mode with Kanthal.
 

zoiDman

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Well one big reason could be the fact that variable wattage is patented in the US. Though switching units to joules won't stop the patent from being violated, so it would be a misguided move. Not that that would be surprising.

Is Variable Wattage Patented in the US? Or is the way that One Company Achieved VW Patented?
 

zoiDman

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ThunderDan

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Yeah... I have seen that Patent.

But what My question was is if I dream up Another way to Alter Voltage besides what Evolv did in that Chip-Set (Fig 6. & Fig 7.), can I sell My Product without violating their Patent?

I believe those figures are just examples, the patent states as much. It sounds to me like if you made any device that is an "Electronic vaporizer that simulates smoking with power control" then you would have to license the patent from evolv. I may be wrong, that is what I got out of the patent, but I'm not a lawyer, nor have I studied law, or patents, so my knowledge is very limited on that topic.

I could check with my lawyer if you are genuinely curious.

(Edit) oops, I linked the application and not the granted patent.

Here is the actual patent: http://www.google.com/patents/US8820330
 
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JohnD0406

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In case you have't seen the SX350mini, YiHi have a Joule counter. A Joule is 1 watt for 1 second, thus 30W on a 3-second draw is 90J. It's safe to assume the Joule setting in temperature limiting mode is the same thing. 50J is 50W/second. As previously stated, this is likely due to Evolv's patent of controlling wattage (which would get tossed out of any court if challenged, as Evolv didn't invent power control through wattage). I'm not a lawyer, but yes, I believe changing the unit of measure does get around the patent. Evolv is claiming variable wattage, not variable Joules or any other measure. Besides, if nothing else, Joules is a much better representation of power as applied to heat, which is YiHi's stance on the matter.

With this weak patent of theirs, why do you think Evolv hasn't gone after anyone yet? They know it's weak. We've been controlling wattage for decades - they didn't invent something new, thus the patent can be, and will be destroyed if challenged.
 

zoiDman

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I believe those figures are just examples, the patent states as much. It sounds to me like if you made any device that is an "Electronic vaporizer that simulates smoking with power control" then you would have to license the patent from evolv. I may be wrong, that is what I got out of the patent, but I'm not a lawyer, nor have I studied law, or patents, so my knowledge is very limited on that topic.

I could check with my lawyer if you are genuinely curious.

(Edit) oops, I linked the application and not the granted patent.

Here is the actual patent: Patent US8820330 - Electronic vaporizer that simulates smoking with power control - Google Patents

The Reason I asked was Way Back-in-the-Day I knew someone who pursued a Patent on doing "Floating Point" calculations.

They way He explained it to me was that Floating Point wasn't Patentable, but the Type of Circuits and the Way the 1's and 0's was manipulated was.

I'm not an Expert on Patents. But I know that a Patent is Only as good as the Holder chooses to Defend a Patent. So I am curious how things work seeing that Many OEM's have Circuit Boards that alter Fixed Voltage into VW.
 

ThunderDan

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The Reason I asked was Way Back-in-the-Day I knew someone who pursued a Patent on doing "Floating Point" calculations.

They way He explained it to me was that Floating Point wasn't Patentable, but the Type of Circuits and the Way the 1's and 0's was manipulated was.

I'm not an Expert on Patents. But I know that a Patent is Only as good as the Holder chooses to Defend a Patent. So I am curious how things work seeing that Many OEM's have Circuit Boards that alter Fixed Voltage into VW.

Ok, I asked my friend that works at the patent office, this is basically what he said:

The first thing you need to know is that the only thing that truly matters is what is actually claimed in the claims section.

The figures 6 and 7 that you refer to are only drawings contained in the "specification" section. They are not what is actually claimed as the invention
the claims are what the applicant is claiming as the actual invention.

The rest of the specificaiton is more or less to provide context and background so that one can understand what the claims mean.

It is just background info to help you understand the claims. They were not trying to claim that part as the invention.

Now the next thing to know is the difference between indepdenent claims and dependent claims
the independent claim are claims 1, 11, 19, and 23. The other claims depend upon the independent, for instance, all of the limitations in claim 1 are present in claim 2. Its like claim 2 is additional limitations on top of what claim 1 is, so they are also claiming and get protection on that. That is to prevent people from getting an improvement patent, essentially anyway.

But they do have protection on the broader indepdent claim.

Now, to be honest, it looks kind of broad. I think I would have been able to reject this under a §103 analysis. But it isn't my area, nor my patent, so it isn't my call.

So if your friend or whoever it is, can do this in a different way than what claim 1 states, then yes, they are good. But if it falls within claim 1 limitations, then they can get sued.

If they have an improved way they can get a patent on it. However, this company can still prevent your friend from marketing it, because they have the broad patent. But, the company could not sell your friends idea either without his permission (if he had a patent on it).

Well keep in mind that a patent does not mean that you have absolute rights
a patent just means that you have presumed rights
patents can be invalidated by the court

For instance, this is a very broad patent. This means it is useful to sue people as a lot of peopel would fall within this.
But it has a 2012 date. So if you could find evidence of something prior to the filing date, of something doing it this way, you could invaldiate the patent.
But yeah, that is the thing about patents. If they really are the first one to do something, they try to claim so broadly that everything falls within it.

The idea is, if you invent the narrow, you must have invented the broad as well.
This line of thinking works well in mechanical stuff, but not computer oriented stuff
so its dated logic, but the laws have not been updated

Anyway, back to that particular patent, it is pretty broad. It looks to me that they have the patent on the idea itself.

I mean look at this:
"A method to simulate smoking with an electronic vaporizer device and a cartridge, comprising:
regulating a power level delivered to a heating element of a cartridge connected to an electronic vaporizer device, for vaporizing a material within the cartridge during a simulated smoking session, substantially to a user-selected wattage setting during activation of the electronic vaporizer device to provide a consistent quantity and quality of vapor during the simulated smoking session."

If this were challenged in court it would get thrown out, they pretty much claimed all adjustable wattage on ecigs, not a particular way of doing it.

I cannot give particular client type advice. But this patent looks like its too broad for its own good.

They might use this to scare people. To send cease and desist letters out, but if anyone actually went court over there, any competent patent attorey should be able to find evidence to sink this patent.
 

KenD

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In case you have't seen the SX350mini, YiHi have a Joule counter. A Joule is 1 watt for 1 second, thus 30W on a 3-second draw is 90J. It's safe to assume the Joule setting in temperature limiting mode is the same thing. 50J is 50W/second. As previously stated, this is likely due to Evolv's patent of controlling wattage (which would get tossed out of any court if challenged, as Evolv didn't invent power control through wattage). I'm not a lawyer, but yes, I believe changing the unit of measure does get around the patent. Evolv is claiming variable wattage, not variable Joules or any other measure. Besides, if nothing else, Joules is a much better representation of power as applied to heat, which is YiHi's stance on the matter.

With this weak patent of theirs, why do you think Evolv hasn't gone after anyone yet? They know it's weak. We've been controlling wattage for decades - they didn't invent something new, thus the patent can be, and will be destroyed if challenged.
That would mean that the chip could calculate the total joules in one draw, based on the time of the draw and the power fluctuations. Right? Or am I understanding it wrong? Still don't see how it would be of much use, other than possibly for testing purposes, or how you could have "variable joules".
 
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