Canada Post

[Kams Cats]

Interesting,

I'll look into the stats in Quebec, but I'm guessing the number of injuries are higher, but the gravity is not the same, i been witness of at least 4 deadly accidents (and a bunch of limb loosing accidents) on construction sites both as a ironworker and a carpenter, i never heard of a postman killed by result of a work injury in the recent years. Once again i might be utterly wrong! So I'll go look it up by curiosity

That is an awful thing to see. Maybe I shouldn't have made the remark about safety when we can count how many major industrial/construction accidents have happened here in Sarnia the last 20 years on one hand.

No you can't compare that type of industry to a postal worker but they do make the same as the gofers do on the jobs here and the gofers job is pretty low risk.

 

[Can_supplier]

Short Term Disability and sick days are very different animals. I haven’t heard of a Short Term Disability plan that covers a day off because you are under the weather. It isn’t worth the administration of applying for STD for situations like that, which is in part why STD isn’t the instrument to deal with sick days. If the STD program proposed would cover a day’s wages for a day off, it wouldn’t be any different than what they have now, and the argument would be moot.

Banked sick days? I am going to challenge you on that. Neither side makes it very clear, but my understanding is that the days are not bankable, its 5 sick days a year. You are welcome to cite your source of where it says they are bankable. I could be wrong.

I agree $120 million in profit isn’t impressive, but it is many times more what the Union is asking, making the Union’s proposal viable and reasonable.

The profit is Canada’s money. Ok so that makes it yours and mine, all 33 million of us. That gives each of us $3.64. Guess we could be considered shareholders too, so my vote is for the company to use my $3.64 which is meaningless to me, to properly pay their employees.

Capital Expenditures come off the sheets before the bottom line. So last year they had $120 more they could’ve invested in staying competitive and building for the future, but decided rather to take out in profit. It is a lie that they need concessions from their workers when clearly they have more than enough money.

 

[CdnBison]

I have no problem with the union members losing the ability to accrue sick time to an infinite level. That can get mighty costly.

That being said, when CP offers someone with 402 sick days a grand total of $3,000, that should be taken for the slap in the face that it is. That works out to $7.50/hr. The person could just call in the next day (and for the next 402 working days) and get full pay.

Easy solution - grandfather it in. Those with it, keep it. Those without, don't get it. Or at least put in a cap of 20-30 days.

Neither side is exactly *right* in this one.

 

[Concat]

Going postal: A look at the labour dispute Canada Post and CUPW

“Union wants: To maintain current sick-leave provision, which allow workers to accumulate sick time so it can be used if they become seriously ill”

And Short Term Disability programs usually have a “wait time.” So, for example, you have to off for more than 5 days before you can apply for STD. It’s no coincidence that the wait time is usually the same as the amount as the annual sick time offered.

By the way, the proposed STD would be 70% which is very good for a STD program, and employees can still use the sick time they accrued under the old system to top up their wage to 100%. (Pseudo-grandfathering as mentioned above)

Also worth noting: “Reported deficit in Canada Post's pension system: $3.2 billion” (and they get a fully indexed pension at age 55... sweet deal)

But it looks like Canada Post has given in to the Union's demands for the pension to remain very much the same.

 

[Can_supplier]

Banked sick days? I am going to challenge you on that.

I stand corrected. I looked up their expired contract, it is banked.

 

[heXy]

Wouldn't a more realistic approach to a corporate lock-out be to stop taking new mail, but ship out your current inventory before closing the doors?

Might help save some customers.

 

[Illuminatu]

Wouldn't a more realistic approach to a corporate lock-out be to stop taking new mail, but ship out your current inventory before closing the doors?

Might help save some customers.

That would be awesome, but since it would have to be delivered by "the suits" (obviously since they locked out all there blue collar workers) It wont happen, none of them office person wants to go out and do the dirty work, I know that for a fact as I am a "suit" now in my current employment.

 

[Can_supplier]

Wouldn't a more realistic approach to a corporate lock-out be to stop taking new mail, but ship out your current inventory before closing the doors?

Might help save some customers.

Or it might have been nice to give some warning. Considering they just announced a few days earlier they were cutting back to 3 day delivery, it made it seem like it was safe to mail things.

Part of the plan I suspect, hold people's mail and packages ransom.

Important to remember this was an act of Canada Post management, not the Union. The Union announced all they action well in advance.

 

[CanadianMetalHead]

OTTAWA - Labour Minister Lisa Raitt says the federal government is prepared to legislate an end to the Canada Post dispute in as little as 48 hours.
Raitt told the House of Commons she will file notice tonight that the government is ready to order an end to the lockout and rotating strikes.
It's a formal warning that the government isn't prepared to let the labour impasse drag on. On Tuesday, the government issued a similar warning in the Air Canada (TSX:AC.B) strike.
Postal workers started rotating walkouts almost two weeks ago and Canada Post locked out its 48,000 unionized workers early today.
Raitt said the lockout, which suspended mail service in urban centres, changed the situation fundamentally.
"There's a cessation of mail delivery, that's different than rolling strikes, that's different than cutting back on the mail service," she said.
She told the Commons:
"Canada Post and the union have been unable to reach a negotiated settlement, which is a great disappointment for us because of the effect it has on Canada and on the Canadian economy. As a result, tonight we will be putting on notice legislation to restore mail delivery for service for Canadians."
Raitt previously called for the two sides to negotiate a settlement, with the help of a federal mediator, but several major issues remain unresolved after months of bargaining.
Canada Post's decision to lock out members of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers may leave lasting scars. Postal union president Denis Lemelin said he is against an imposed solution and called for a one-on-one meeting with Canada Post chief executive Deepak Chopra as a way to break the impasse.
At the minimum, Lemelin called on Chopra to commit to allow postal workers to deliver social assistance and other cheques on Monday.
Lemelin called Canada Post's lockout provocative and "irresponsible," saying the union chose rotating strikes to ensure minimum disruption to the public.
"Today, all postal workers were ready — the letter carriers as well — to distribute the mail everywhere in the country," Lemelin said in a morning news conference.
"We were truly fulfilling our commitment to see to it that the public receives their mail."
He said he would favour the minister ordering Canada Post to end the lock-out.
Lemelin also proposed that Chopra reinstate the union's expired contract so that employees can return to work while negotiations continue.
"If Canada Post wants to have a collective agreement they have to give a new mandate to their negotiators, a real mandate to negotiate," Lemelin said.
CUPW had targeted postal plants in Toronto on Tuesday for the first time since it began rotating strikes nearly two weeks ago. It also had a strike in Montreal for the second time since the walkouts began in Winnipeg on June 3.
Canada Post said late Tuesday that it would suspend all operations in urban centres across the country, saying the strikes have cost it about $100 million.
The postal service had already announced deliveries of letters and most parcels would be cut back to Monday, Wednesday and Friday due to a drop in volume since the strikes began.
The federal government legislated striking postal workers back to work in 1997 — the last time the union went on strike — after they were off the job two weeks.
Although the labour dispute does not include rural postal workers, who fall under a different contract, even the post office has acknowledged that a prolonged lockout could mean they would eventually have no more mail to deliver.

 

[Kams Cats]

Neither side is exactly *right* in this one.

CdnBison you are very right there and to be honest that is the truth in most labour disputes these days. It's usually a give and take and I hope they end up with a contract that everyone can live with.

 

[Can_supplier]

CdnBison you are very right there and to be honest that is the truth in most labour disputes these days. It's usually a give and take and I hope they end up with a contract that everyone can live with.

I agree..

A great truth is companies tend to get the union they deserve.

It is a militant Union hitting Canada Post right where it hurts, the ad mail. And it’s a nasty company that holds the system ransom to force back to work legislation. Maybe unlimited banked sick days is unrealistic, but so is singing the blues that you have to pay your workers less when the company is turning a profit.

What it comes down to in the end is my support goes out to the workers. I hope at the end of the day they get what they deserve and what they have worked for. Long after the dust settles on this one and we have all forgotten, they are the ones left to live with the results.

 

[Damage]

If you ask me, all crown corporation management and board positions should be limited to standardized hourly wage or slary (if they are salaried). No more 6 and 7 figure incomes with 6 and 7 figure bonuses! Same applies for political positions. These are OUR corporations/businesses and in order for them to function and see profit we need to rid them of the greedy fat cats who get appointed to those high level positions.

Here's the math:

Unionized postal employee @ $23 per hour x 40 hours per week x 52 weeks per year = $47,480.00 annually gross

Fat cat upper management = $XXX,XXX.00 at 3 hours per day (max) a few times a week (meetings)

It costs more to have a decision maker than a hard working (don't even think about touching that) employee.

I do not disagree that a manager/board member should be paid more than an employee, but at the same time, that manager/board member should put in the same hours that the employee does. No less.

Now, if it's a private business/corporation, then that is an entirely different kettle of fish.

 

[Damage]

On a lighter note, Jack at Happy Vaper got me my atties (and a few flavours and other items) overnight via Purolator (which in this case was sooner than later lol) and I've been happily vaping since yesterday afternoon

 

[tomknotts]

Greed pure greed... the workers want more money because they believe there job is hard and "stressfull" most workers get paid for an 8hr day and only work about 3-4(what ever it takes to do there root) trust me i know quite a few past and current postal workers. Now the corperation is loosing money so they want to say money to keep there profits and what nots (my next door neightbur works at the postoffice outlet in a drugstore and she said they have been really slow this year.).
either way greed...

as for the fliers from what i been told the person delivering them actually makes money off of devivering them so its not just the fatcats up stairs.
as for the lock out it makes sence it forces the union to smarten up take the generous deal and get thier asses back to work to get my my damn packages (i have 5 waiting at the lborder)

the one thing i thing is bs is trying to take away the sickdays.... maybe implemenet the rules with the new guys just dont strip backed time from the current employees

 

[Concat]

"Workers".... keep in mind it's the Union reps at the table making the decisions, not the "workers."

And when mail resumes, are we gonna get like 500 flyers? If so I'll be ....... Living in an apartment sucks cause there's no where to put a sign that says no junk mail :/

And there should be a way of opting out of phone book deliveries. Massive amount of waste every year.

 

[rachelcoffe]

From the way some folks describe things...the postal workers should be bowing in gratitude before Canada Post because they aren't receiving daily beatings before their shifts, or because they're 'generously' allowed to sleep at night.

The only reason anyone here doesn't have their packages yet is because CP won't let the workers deliver them. The lockout is the reason you can't get any mail. Does everyone understand that? There is no strike. No one is on strike. This is a lockout. Blames lies squarely at the feet of CP. The union and/or the unionized workers are not to blame for a lockout. It wasn't their decision. If they had their way, we'd have all gotten our packages by now...even with the limited, rolling strikes occuring here & there.

What we're seeing here is that the corporation is willing to hurt itself - & all of Canada - pretty badly, in order to show the extra mile of spite towards its workers who have worked hard, under increasingly difficult working conditions, year after year, to make CP profitable now for 16 years in a row.

What is this "generous deal" exactly?? I don't see how CP can justify offering drastically inferior pensions & wages to new hires. If CP was actually losing money or having difficulties...that'd be a very different situation. I'm certain the unionized workers would understand, and they would be more than happy to be accomodating in light of that. But CP isn't losing money, and that's the whole point. Almost $300 million in pure profits last year. Think how just $1 million could change your life. Now times that by 300. That's pure profit. CP is not hurting. They're merely using every tactic they can to give their workers the crappiest possible deal, and the only reason they're able to do that is because the old contract expired. Whenever it's time to negotiate a new contract, they act this way.

And it's shameful.

The average postal worker makes an annual wage of around $50k. That's before taxes...before cost of living...before everything. Postal workers are not making much, to be frank. They do a difficult & stressful job, under conditions that lend themselves to injury (for example, now the carriers have to carry two bags of mail instead of one, all over the city etc)...dealing with cranky people who are rarely if ever satisfied, no matter how promptly the mail is delivered...they have families to feed, cars to pay for, etc etc. These people are Canada. They are the hard-working middle class. The raise they asked for (to mention just one example) was peanuts. Peanuts that CP can totally afford.

What is the union supposed to do? Not fight for equal rights for its workers? Happily accept terrible offers that make no sense in the current climate of prosperity? I don't see that the union could have done anything differently unless it was completely stupid. And let's not forget...the union has gone out of its way to be accomodating to Canadians, despite its legitimate grievances. It's CP that gave no consideration to Canadians, by locking everyone out.

It boggles my mind that some people continually fail to comprehend the difference between a lockout and limited, rolling strikes...or who is behind such actions.

---

/end rant, back to happy vaping

 

[Switched]

I find this thread terribly amusing

 

[Eileithia]

And when mail resumes, are we gonna get like 500 flyers? If so I'll be ....... Living in an apartment sucks cause there's no where to put a sign that says no junk mail :/

Trust me, the signs don't work. I have one on my mail box, and guess what I'd come home to every night (pre-strike/lockout).

Coincidently, I also have a sign that says "No Newspaper". I still come home to a "free" newspaper in my box every night. I've put a BIG SIGN with an arrow pointing to my blue box under my mail box for news paper.. and guess what's jamed in my mailbox every night.. I've even called the distribution manager at the local news paper pleading with them to STOP delivering to my house, and I still get the damn newspaper every night.

Junk mail creates revenue, and they need to deliver it. No amount of signs, begging, paying off etc will stop that

I'm actually looking forward to the 500 flyers because it means my juice order from Vaporium will be burried under it

 

[Concat]

I thought CP made 140 mill last year, not 300?

 

[dmatrix7]

Trust me, the signs don't work. I have one on my mail box, and guess what I'd come home to every night (pre-strike/lockout).

Coincidently, I also have a sign that says "No Newspaper". I still come home to a "free" newspaper in my box every night. I've put a BIG SIGN with an arrow pointing to my blue box under my mail box for news paper.. and guess what's jamed in my mailbox every night.. I've even called the distribution manager at the local news paper pleading with them to STOP delivering to my house, and I still get the damn newspaper every night.

Junk mail creates revenue, and they need to deliver it. No amount of signs, begging, paying off etc will stop that

I'm actually looking forward to the 500 flyers because it means my juice order from Vaporium will be burried under it

I also had a sign for no junk mail or flyers on my mailbox and it did work for me for a good year or so. Then at the start of this year I got a new mailman and for some reason they just ignored the sign. I called my local post office to complain and they sent a form for me to fill out that said I didn't want any junk mail or flyers. Ever since I filled out this form the junk mail has pretty much stopped again. Hopefully it will stick after the strike is done. I hate junk mail as much as spam.