Cannabis Forum

[zoiDman]

...

I do wonder why on earth a legitimate business would be adding this garbage into their vape liquid, if they are. Why do it at all? It makes perfect sense for the black market, but what the heck? Is it possible that the very extract itself is harmful? But then, people have been making their own extracts for quite a long time and vaping them - and legal vape cartridges have been on the market in Colorado, etc for years without issue...

I'm confused. And going to bed.

Why would a Legit Pot Shop be doing this? Go back and Re-Read Black Market Economics 101.

LOL

Look... Here's the Deal. The Last thing 99.99% of the people who have a Legit Pot Shop want is do something that makes their Customers Sick.

But when Some see an Opportunity to Sluff in some inventory and Sell it for Regulated/Taxed prices, as long as it is Safe, they say what is the Problem? And that is what has been going on (to some degree) since Day One. Because it's All Cash. And there is Little to Very Little Oversight.

But then some Bad Cut comes down the Line. Maybe it was Mis-Labeled? Or maybe some OEM Cut Mixer Goofed after having too many Beers on a Friday? Or Maybe a Cut maker started to Cut Corners? Who Knows? But it got into the System.

And what you have Always Used is now making people Sick. You Didn't want it to Happen. But you Trusted what you have used before with No Problems should have No Problems Now.

And Now the Cut Makers are All Going Dark. And No Body wants to come forth as say that they May have been Involved. So Tracability is kinda like what it was when the Market was Illegal.

The Vast Majority of Legit Pot Shops see enough Profits from working withing the Regulatory Guardrails. But as long as there is Opportunity to make More Money, there will Always be some who do.

 

[Jazzman]

I had reservations when ECF first floated the idea of a cannabis subforum. But after some thought and a bit of internet research it makes sense. Let's face it, traditional vaping forums are aging and contracting. I don't want to say dying because I don't think that's accurate, but shrinking in posts and popularity yeah, I think so.

After spending a fair amount of time researching cannabis forums last weekend out of curiosity, I discovered cannabis forums are many and thriving. It was a bit staggering to see the amount of forums and also the amount of posts they have. They have everything from general information forums, growing forums, medicinal forums, etc. They even have blogs for the top 25 forums for cannabis. When was there a time vaping forums were so numerous that they needed to be specialized to a specific element of vaping and judged for the best in some order to save time for the less talented with their Google-Fu?

So in retrospect I can see the reasoning behind the inclusion of cannabis/CBD as a way to save the vaping portion of the forum and agree it was a good business decision for ECF. So yeah, I'm OK with it. I would think, at some point, it would be beneficial to move this subforum up the index ordering to make it easier to find for new cannabis folks.

 

[Woofer]

why on earth a legitimate business would be adding this garbage into their vape liquid, if they are.

One might think they too have been duped by clever packaging and or marketing?
I don't know exactly how the various states regulate by my impression is that the systems and checks are stringent. They seem to be very detailed and complete in Canada. Canadian Enforcement for licenced Cannabis businesses selling unauthorised material will be swift and very sever imo.

Because it's All Cash. And there is Little to Very Little Oversight.

Sadly it is all cash because even state legal vendors are denied banking service as I understand it.
Is there really very little oversight? Honest question.

My understanding is legal producers have to track from seed (literally every seed) to sale.
The Canadian government has already destroyed major amounts of product for various reasons.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Sadly it is all cash because even state legal vendors are denied banking service as I understand it.
Is there really very little oversight? Honest question.

My understanding is legal producers have to track from seed (literally every seed) to sale.
The Canadian government has already destroyed major amounts of product for various reasons.

How can you have Oversight if you Can't Ensure Traceability? And how can you have Traceabilty if transaction can be done in Cash?

For Any Company/Business, it can be Hard to avoid Regulations or Oversight. Because everything you pay for is Via a Company Check. And All your Sales are run thru your Business Account at your Back.

So an Audit of your Books/Cash Register Totals have to Jive with you Bank Deposited. And your Payable can be Traced because they were done with a Company Check. And that Check was cashed somewhere by Someone.

Not say'n that there aren't ways to get away with a Little Bit. Because Numbers can be Fudged. But straight forward Small Cap Company, an In Depth Audit will show just about Everything. If Not Everything.

Now Throw All That Out the Window.

Because in a Cash Market, accounting is done on the Honor System. LOL. And it can be Very Difficult to know for sure Exactly what/how much is Being Purchased. And Exactly what/how much is being Sold.

And it is Easy to have a Set of Dummy Books where that "Seed to User" thing can be Shown. On the Chance that you are in fact Audited.

And this is what Many People tried to Point Out when States like CA wanted to make the Sale of Pot Legal. That if Pot Shops weren't Integrated into the Banking System, than there could be No Real Control of where the Money Goes.

This is Why Things work in Canada. And your Not Seeing Wide Scale Problems. Because Banks were allowed to provide Banking Services to the Pot Industry. So things could be run Just Like a Regular Company. And Financial Transactions had a Traceable record.

What CA created was a "Legal" Market that basically operates with the Same Monetary System as what the Illegal Market operated under. Cash Transactions. Little to No Tractability.

So whereas there are a Lot of Legit Pot Shops that Fully Comply with all the Tax and Regulatory Rules that are in place. There are Also a Lot who Don't.

 

[Izan]

How can you have Oversight if you Can't Ensure Traceability? And how can you have Traceabilty if transaction can be done in Cash?
.

They are working on it:
Passed the House, now on to the Senate.
SAFE Banking Act - Wikipedia

Cheers
I

 

[zoiDman]

They are working on it:
Passed the House, now on to the Senate.
SAFE Banking Act - Wikipedia

Cheers
I

Yeah... I have been kinda Half Azz following that piece of Legislation.

Not sure what it's Chances are in the Senate in it current form? But from what I understand, McConnell doesn't consider the "Concept" a Non-Starter.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

California vape maker Kushy Punch caught making illegal products

 

[zoiDman]

"The source also says cannabis that might fail the state’s stringent pesticide standards went to the illicit extraction lab, pen factory, and kitchen located at 8427 Canoga Ave. in Canoga Park. That facility sits on the same block as the Los Angeles Police Department’s Topanga Community Police Station."

California vape maker Kushy Punch caught making illegal products

 

[Rossum]

"That facility sits on the same block as the Los Angeles Police Department’s Topanga Community Police Station."

California vape maker Kushy Punch caught making illegal products

Makes sense. Where's the last place you would look for illegal activity? Right next to the cop-shop!

 

[zapped]

I just got back after a long hiatus and I'm shocked and disappointed by this decision.

Potheads have been calling our ejuice "oil" for the better part of the last ten years. So this is entirely their fault.

In fact,of one the quickest ways to spot a druggie is by them asking you what oil you use in your vape pen.

I understand lifting the restriction, but adding in this subforum, thereby associating ourselves with these people, I just cannot understand the rationale behind that and it makes me wonder if one or more administrators or owners isn't using themselves.

A few weeks ago I called the CDC and asked to speak to a researcher involved with these cases.

I told them I was an expert on vaping, had been vaping since 2009 and listed some of my other credentials.

I then spent close to an hour talking to the researcher explaining to them that these illnesses couldn't be caused by traditional vaping and recommended he drug test the people who were sick....I also told him that the ones who said they weren't using THC were probably lying because they were worried about getting in trouble with parents or the law and didn't want that stigma attached.

I talked about oils and solubility and the differences between PG, VG and Vitamin E Acetate. I also explained how our flavorings and our nicotine were water soluble and/ or alcohol based. Then I explained that the easiest, cheapest method for extracting THC was an oil or a butter and that's why those cartridges used oil as a carrier.

We then talked about ECF and I told him this forum was the oldest and most well respected online and that it had always had a policy of non association with drug users. Explained to him that this forum and most in this industry had done everything we could to distance ourselves from marijuana users, because they only hurt our case and weakened our argument.

He thanked me for my time, and it wasn't long after that that the CDC changed their position slightly and laid the blame on black market THC cartridges.Im not claiming credit for that, not even slightly, but I'd like to think that I wasn't the only one who made that call and that our comments made a difference.

Imagine my shock finding out Id been made a liar of by the same forum I'd been vigorously defending and praising.

I'm not going anywhere yet, but if this is going to be a permanent fixture on these forums, I can't and won't in all conscienceness, be a part of them anymore.

 

[AttyPops]

Define "drug". Pfffft.
I'm a nicotine addict. I admit it. I haven't shook it yet. It's legal (for me, I'm of age and then some). Guess I'm a "druggie".

I'm not, however, a stoner. But I don't think myself holier than them. I just don't need another bad habit.
Further, some claim that CBD (not THC) vaping helps them with <some stuff>. And although I think that 99% of it is psychosomatic and/or trace THC related, or could be better treated other ways, it might do some good for a few conditions.

You should chill a bit, IMO. Loosely, everything's "a drug" if you take it in. Sugar. Water. All of it. All compounds.

 

[Rob B.]

I just got back after a long hiatus and I'm shocked and disappointed by this decision.

Potheads have been calling our ejuice "oil" for the better part of the last ten years. So this is entirely their fault.

In fact,of one the quickest ways to spot a druggie is by them asking you what oil you use in your vape pen.

I understand lifting the restriction, but adding in this subforum, thereby associating ourselves with these people, I just cannot understand the rationale behind that and it makes me wonder if one or more administrators or owners isn't using themselves.

A few weeks ago I called the CDC and asked to speak to a researcher involved with these cases.

I told them I was an expert on vaping, had been vaping since 2009 and listed some of my other credentials.

I then spent close to an hour talking to the researcher explaining to them that these illnesses couldn't be caused by traditional vaping and recommended he drug test the people who were sick....I also told him that the ones who said they weren't using THC were probably lying because they were worried about getting in trouble with parents or the law and didn't want that stigma attached.

I talked about oils and solubility and the differences between PG, VG and Vitamin E Acetate. I also explained how our flavorings and our nicotine were water soluble and/ or alcohol based. Then I explained that the easiest, cheapest method for extracting THC was an oil or a butter and that's why those cartridges used oil as a carrier.

We then talked about ECF and I told him this forum was the oldest and most well respected online and that it had always had a policy of non association with drug users. Explained to him that this forum and most in this industry had done everything we could to distance ourselves from marijuana users, because they only hurt our case and weakened our argument.

He thanked me for my time, and it wasn't long after that that the CDC changed their position slightly and laid the blame on black market THC cartridges.Im not claiming credit for that, not even slightly, but I'd like to think that I wasn't the only one who made that call and that our comments made a difference.

Imagine my shock finding out Id been made a liar of by the same forum I'd been vigorously defending and praising.

I'm not going anywhere yet, but if this is going to be a permanent fixture on these forums, I can't and won't in all conscienceness, be a part of them anymore.

You've got to be kidding me! I am a staunch conservative and I don't have your viewpoint on the medical uses of CBD and THC. It is a fact that both cbd and thc have a list as long as your forearm of verified medicinal uses, and greatly help the people who need it. If you don't like them or use them, that is fine....but not everyone uses them for recreational use.

Medical marijuana is used to treat a number of different conditions, including:

• Alzheimer's disease
  
• Appetite loss
  
• Cancer
  
• Crohn's disease
  
• Eating disorders such as anorexia
  
• Epilepsy
  
• Glaucoma
  
• Mental health conditions like schizophrenia and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD)
  
• Multiple sclerosis
  
• Muscle spasms
  
• Nausea
  
• Pain
  
• Wasting syndrome (cachexia)

The greatest amount of evidence for the therapeutic effects of cannabis relate to its ability to reduce chronic pain, nausea and vomiting due to chemotherapy, and spasticity [tight or stiff muscles] from MS.

Cannabinoids -- the active chemicals in medical marijuana -- are similar to chemicals the body makes that are involved in appetite, memory, movement, and pain.

Research shows cannabinoids:

• Reduce anxiety
• Reduce inflammation and relieve pain
• Control nausea and vomiting caused by cancer chemotherapy
• Kill cancer cells and slow tumor growth
• Relax tight muscles in people with MS
• Stimulate appetite and improve weight gain in people with cancer and AIDS

I'd like to know what lovely pharma meds you are on, because if you are on any.....that makes you a "Druggie" too. Do you drink alcohol? If you do, you're a "druggie". Do you vape nicotine? You're a "druggie". Don't know if you ever noticed on the pharma commercials, but the largest percentage of them cause serious side effects....up to and including death. The fact that doctors prescribe pharma, means absolutely squat. Doctors prescribe medicinal marijuana also. Let's not be hypocritical, or try to defame, ridicule, or disregard people here just because you don't agree with something they do that helps improve their quality of life. A little open mindedness goes a long way.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Zapped,

Potheads... ...their fault. ...ways to spot a druggie... ...associating ourselves with these people... ...recommended he drug test... ...policy of non association with drug users... ...distance ourselves from marijuana users, because they only hurt our case... ...laid the blame on black market THC cartridges... ...if this is going to be a permanent fixture on these forums, I can't and won't in all conscienceness, be a part of them anymore.

Nonetheless it's been tragically demonstrated multiple times that in fact vaping KILLS and it was people just like *YOU* who failed to see it coming, with their radar obscured by hate speech, essentially...

The only point we may agree upon is that some combinations of vaping and cannabis must be avoided, while you really don't need "outsiders" to "hurt your own case". Actually your time is coming to an end indeed, evolve or disapear the same as dynosaurs once did!



There was no echo after i mentioned "lab shoping", or even attempted to thouroughly explain in a dedicated thread how noble cannabic molecules suffer extreme villification just to accomodate a consumerist market obcessed with truly toxic mirages as monster clouds... Same thing after my mention of "active" vs "secret" ingredients in Pest Control Products of which concentration levels ain't supposed to be a Public Health issue - m'well until concentration processes are performed simply to satisfy the "vaping" market, that is!

Somehow the mere idea that excessive cooking done in presence of complex chemical soups seriously defeat the so-called "Harm Reduction" features of "vaping" ain't popular, yet no need for anything cannabis to understand that, unable to recognize that individual effects don't just add up, they multiply and most especially if repeatedly heated using a 200 Watts sub-Ohm coil...



All attempts to provide a solid alternative consumption method (*,*,*,*) specifically designed for cannabis, were politely acknowledged at best, obviously ignored or even plain rejected with expressions of frustration - to express it in a civilized manner.

Shocking Fake News titles as "OK maybe THC CAN kill?!?!" certainly don't address
basic bigot anti-cannabic prohibitionist VILIFICATION inherited from the "science" of doctor John Warnock (in the Victorian age...), starting with the modern problem of THC-centric genetic selection exposing unsuspecting/vulnerable consumers to extreme THC:CBD ratios, "medical" or "criminal/"recreational", with an abysmal man-made void in between which is the result of immature/irresponsible 3rd-party self-serving (predator) interference trying to impose an utopian/socio-toxic "Drug-Free World" ideology in absence of any proportional accountability...



Truth is i've already pointed a finger at quite a few decoys which YOU insist to perpetuate by anouncing some probable "departure" as the ultimate ultimatum! aHummm... So, briefly put, there's no authentic dialog taking place in an attempt to help identify what's fatally broken in "vaping" which allowed its sabotage by your actual enemies, apparently emerging from within; yet it seems the blind is most determined to lead the blind using irrational populist tactics.

Once again i implore the "vaping" community to REMOVE agravating factors not initially included in the original e-Cig concept. The rest is a distraction allowing hate-lovers/love-haters to generously distribute their antiquated venom, effectively serving an invisible adversary most pleased by such vile division - not to mention the evil seed inside yourselves...



Good day, have fun!!

 

[FringeChief68]

 

[zoiDman]

10-4. I get it. I would sure hope for sensible taxation, but ... it certainly isn't currently sensible in most (if not all) places where it's legal. ...

"Hefty marijuana taxes that can approach 50 percent in some communities have been blamed for pushing shoppers into California’s tax-free illegal market, which is thriving. Industry analysts estimate that $3 are spent in the illegal market for every $1 in the legal one."

California boosts pot taxes, shocking unsteady industry

 

[Rossum]

"Hefty marijuana taxes that can approach 50 percent in some communities have been blamed for pushing shoppers into California’s tax-free illegal market, which is thriving. Industry analysts estimate that $3 are spent in the illegal market for every $1 in the legal one."

California boosts pot taxes, shocking unsteady industry

Gosh, who'd have thunk that when a product is over-taxed, people will seek ways to avoid paying such taxes?

 

[zoiDman]

Gosh, who'd have thunk that when a product is over-taxed, people will seek ways to avoid paying such taxes?

Dunno?

The Same people who want to Legalize things on the Federal Level?

 

[FringeChief68]

 

[smacuser]

@Mowgli continuing our discussion of Aubrey Plaza, I'll leave this here for you

Won't work

"Getting Doug with High with Aubrey Plaza"

 

[Bad Ninja]

Whoa... Cannabis discussion on ECF? Am I in the right place???

Gosh, who'd have thunk that when a product is over-taxed, people will seek ways to avoid paying such taxes?

Before regulations/recreational was officially even on the table, areas like Riverside County, picked certain areas to zone for growing commercially. The politicians' "friends" gobbled up the real estate, leveled the buildings and built grow structures they could rent for ridiculous rates per sq ft.

Then the Riverside Sheriffs Dept. Raided and shut down as many large medicinal grows as they could find.

Then regulations/legalization was announced, along with zoning and taxes, state, county, city, licenses, permits. Hundreds of thousands of dollars before you add in the massive amount of a lease.

Outdoor grows pay a $25 per sq ft land use tax. That a million dollars per acre, per year, before you so much as kick dirt.
Outdoor primo norcal bud sells for only about $600 a pound in Cali. Less wholesale/bulk.
There is no way they will survive.

The growers will eventually fail, and another will take their place with green dreams of making a fortune.

This happened virtually all across the state, as stoners were all celebrating recreational pot.
The crooked CA government sucked the profit out of the industry, because they hate the lack of control they have over it.
In CA MMJ laws are written into the state Constitution, so it takes an actual vote to undo it.

Also, the IRS looks as growing pot as an illegitimate business, so you do not get to write off any expenses.

Banks don't want to take cash deposits from growers due to federal prohibition, as they could be charged with laundering funds from criminal activity.


It's a racket for the state that creates a ripe environment for crime, and ensures a black market for them to make new felons out of, who then lose a few specific rights.

Chess not checkers.

I'm so glad I left that state... lol.