Castle long clone recipe? Anyone?

[wrxified]

Hey there. Appreciate you taking the time to work on this recipe. Tried the Castle Long liquid awhile back and it's one of the first juices that actually has me thinking about venturing into the DIY area.

I apologize as I've never attempted any homebrew myself however I'm pretty good with math. My question is surrounding the way some descriptions of the flavorings like Acetyl Pyrazine are worded. Here is what I'm referring to.

"Concentrated Acetyl Pyrazine 5% PG flavoring by The Flavor Apprentice.
Acetyl Pyrazine 5% PG concentrated flavoring is FDA approved for use in food, beverages, and products for human consumption.

Ingredients: Acetyl Pyrazine, PG

All Wizard Labs flavor concentrates are undiluted, full strength concentrates direct from the manufacturer, and contain no Diacetyl.
Recommended usage is to test at 5% flavoring in your recipe, and adjust to taste."

As I understand it, your measurements call for about a 10% flavor, 90% base. Does that mean that the Acetyl Pyrazine is already reduced to a lower ratio than your recipe calls for? Or does your recipe call for 1.5% of acetyl pyrazine that has already been reduced to 5%?

Sorry if that is not worded correctly or doesn't make sense. Appreciate any help you could provide. If you want I can ask it in another thread.

 

[Mazinny]

i can't call this a true clone but rather a suitable inexpensive alternative. also can't knock five pawns at all. their level of quality is assured and unequaled by any other vendor i have tried. the aroma of CL is addictive in itself. i smell roasted almond nut bread. as with any juice, taste is subjective. in either juice i can only taste the coconut with a dripping atomizer. in kayfuns, the coconut is there but muted. the madagascar bourbon vanilla is a very dark flavoring and contributes to only a slightly darker hue in the finish product in comparison. give it a try. adjust to your liking and enjoy a great vape at 90+% savings. i will make many variations substituting different fruit flavors for the coconut. i also like hazelnut added. if you like sweet increase the brown sugar

kentucky bourbon 2.5%
vanilla bourbon 1%
vanillin 1%
toasted almond 1.5%
coconut extra 1.5%
brown sugar extra 1%
nut bread (acetyl pyrazine) 1.5%

for a 10ml sample let .5%= 1 drop 20 drops= 1ml pg flavor base.

would appreciate feedback and happy to answer questions/compare notes.

thinking of getting into DIY myself, after trying castle long and gemtleman's reserve. Want to start simple. Do you know of any site which would make me a pg/vg/nicotine solution at my desired nicotine,pg, and vg percentages, if i ordered bulk (e.g. 2 liters of a 60/40 pg/vg at 1.3 % nicotine). Obviosly quality and price are important.

Also, Wizard labs has its own brand and other brands. Which brand would you recommend if i want to keep it simple and order all flavors from the same brand.

 

[flowerpots]

thinking of getting into DIY myself, after trying castle long and gemtleman's reserve. Want to start simple. Do you know of any site which would make me a pg/vg/nicotine solution at my desired nicotine,pg, and vg percentages, if i ordered bulk (e.g. 2 liters of a 60/40 pg/vg at 1.3 % nicotine). Obviosly quality and price are important.

Also, Wizard labs has its own brand and other brands. Which brand would you recommend if i want to keep it simple and order all flavors from the same brand.

I've ordered from several vendors for flavorings. Wizard labs has the best prices that I've come across. The problem is not all flavor brands (TFA, LorAnn's, Flavor West, Nature's Flavors, Hangsen, etc.) have the best variety of any given flavor. So, the best place to get the best assortment of choices is ecigexpress: Electronic Cigarette, Clearomizer, USA e-Liquid, e-Cig Juice, DIY Flavors, Wholesale Nicotine, Empty Bottles for E-Liquid - ecigExpress

Before you purchase, look at this thread for the best flavors of each manufacturer: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/347885-2012-best-best-diy-flavorings-each-flavor-manufacture.html

There are a few newer manufacturers being used that are not in this thread, like Inawera/Wera Gardens and Nude Nicotine. Those two also have some great options that can be explored here:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/477601-inawera-few-reviews.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/485536-nude-nicotine-diy-flavor-guide.html

I'm not sure about the customized mixed PG/VG base at 1.3%. I just usually mix my own.

 

[jonhall2]

Hey there. Appreciate you taking the time to work on this recipe. Tried the Castle Long liquid awhile back and it's one of the first juices that actually has me thinking about venturing into the DIY area.

I apologize as I've never attempted any homebrew myself however I'm pretty good with math. My question is surrounding the way some descriptions of the flavorings like Acetyl Pyrazine are worded. Here is what I'm referring to.

"Concentrated Acetyl Pyrazine 5% PG flavoring by The Flavor Apprentice.
Acetyl Pyrazine 5% PG concentrated flavoring is FDA approved for use in food, beverages, and products for human consumption.

Ingredients: Acetyl Pyrazine, PG

All Wizard Labs flavor concentrates are undiluted, full strength concentrates direct from the manufacturer, and contain no Diacetyl.
Recommended usage is to test at 5% flavoring in your recipe, and adjust to taste."

As I understand it, your measurements call for about a 10% flavor, 90% base. Does that mean that the Acetyl Pyrazine is already reduced to a lower ratio than your recipe calls for? Or does your recipe call for 1.5% of acetyl pyrazine that has already been reduced to 5%?

Sorry if that is not worded correctly or doesn't make sense. Appreciate any help you could provide. If you want I can ask it in another thread.

it's my understanding most all flavors are pg based to some extent. there is no need to do additional math to the amount of flavoring to use. will it affect pg/vg % to an uncalculable ratio? i vape 70/30 and allow flavoring to account as pg in my final determination. close enough for me.

wish they would just call it "nut bread". WL has it back in stock and i ordered that and many more once notified of availability.

i make 15ml vapable 10% flavor sample bottles and mix juices to build recipes. the range for your flavor % is up to you. 10% usage has worked well for me with WL flavors. my nicotine level is 10mg/ml and is represented as 10% of any juice i make. i think KISS principle applies? certainly makes the math simple as far as determining how much of each flavoring used to recreate a flavor.

if i haven't answered your question, let me say i tried it at 5%. found it weak and adjusted to !0%.....my taste. if you want flavoring to represent say 8% of your juice, your talking about 4 drops less flavoring per 10ml juice. or.....do the math.

 

[jonhall2]

thinking of getting into DIY myself, after trying castle long and gemtleman's reserve. Want to start simple. Do you know of any site which would make me a pg/vg/nicotine solution at my desired nicotine,pg, and vg percentages, if i ordered bulk (e.g. 2 liters of a 60/40 pg/vg at 1.3 % nicotine). Obviosly quality and price are important.

Also, Wizard labs has its own brand and other brands. Which brand would you recommend if i want to keep it simple and order all flavors from the same brand.

i tried other brands and found WL, the flavor apprentice, most consistent for my 10% flavor base preference. i have loranns i will never use due to all the dyes present. maybe in some cupcakes. lol i'd rather vape flavors than colors.

i have run into some sites in the past that make juice to order and sorry i don't recall who they are. flowerpots has some great links to useful info. good luck with diy. the price really comes down when you mix it all yourself. then the savings are even greater bought in bulk. the costliest thing to make my juice is the bottle to put it in. so far $1.28 ea. for 2oz with dropper childproof cap. i will be stepping up to case prices next. 40% less cost. other ingredients are best bought by the gallon or more.

 

[Mazinny]

I've ordered from several vendors for flavorings. Wizard labs has the best prices that I've come across. The problem is not all flavor brands (TFA, LorAnn's, Flavor West, Nature's Flavors, Hangsen, etc.) have the best variety of any given flavor. So, the best place to get the best assortment of choices is ecigexpress: Electronic Cigarette, Clearomizer, USA e-Liquid, e-Cig Juice, DIY Flavors, Wholesale Nicotine, Empty Bottles for E-Liquid - ecigExpress

Before you purchase, look at this thread for the best flavors of each manufacturer: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/347885-2012-best-best-diy-flavorings-each-flavor-manufacture.html

There are a few newer manufacturers being used that are not in this thread, like Inawera/Wera Gardens and Nude Nicotine. Those two also have some great options that can be explored here:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/477601-inawera-few-reviews.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/485536-nude-nicotine-diy-flavor-guide.html

I'm not sure about the customized mixed PG/VG base at 1.3%. I just usually mix my own.

Thanks for the advice and links. Browsed through some, and found them useful, but for my first batch i would like to keep it simple. I don't necessarily want the very best in each flavor ( although that is obviously subjective), but one brand with the same level of concentration, which is reputable, uses safe ingredients, and has decent or better flavors across the board ( or at least a decent majority of its juices ).

Once i decide i wanna get into diy more hardcore, i would then venture into multiple suppliers and more advanced mixing equipment and such.

I suppose its rather simple to mix my vg, pg and nic to my desired percentages. I am pretty good at math ! Just figured i would need less bottles, pipettes etc... if my juice was pre-mixed.

 

[Mazinny]

i tried other brands and found WL, the flavor apprentice, most consistent for my 10% flavor base preference. i have loranns i will never use due to all the dyes present. maybe in some cupcakes. lol i'd rather vape flavors than colors.

i have run into some sites in the past that make juice to order and sorry i don't recall who they are. flowerpots has some great links to useful info. good luck with diy. the price really comes down when you mix it all yourself. then the savings are even greater bought in bulk. the costliest thing to make my juice is the bottle to put it in. so far $1.28 ea. for 2oz with dropper childproof cap. i will be stepping up to case prices next. 40% less cost. other ingredients are best bought by the gallon or more.

Flavor Apprentice would suit me fine, as the 10 % base is easy to work with ! I will look some more for the sites you mentioned, thank you.

Would you say that for the most part PG, VG, and nic solutions are of similar quality among different vendors ?


just to double check, am i to imply that Flavor Apprentice is WL's own brand ?

 

[MsComptrtchr]

I made this two days ago, let it steep a tiny bit and I must say it is GOOD!! I am going to post this in the Clone Recipes folder.

i can't call this a true clone but rather a suitable inexpensive alternative. also can't knock five pawns at all. their level of quality is assured and unequaled by any other vendor i have tried. the aroma of CL is addictive in itself. i smell roasted almond nut bread. as with any juice, taste is subjective. in either juice i can only taste the coconut with a dripping atomizer. in kayfuns, the coconut is there but muted. the madagascar bourbon vanilla is a very dark flavoring and contributes to only a slightly darker hue in the finish product in comparison. give it a try. adjust to your liking and enjoy a great vape at 90+% savings. i will make many variations substituting different fruit flavors for the coconut. i also like hazelnut added. if you like sweet increase the brown sugar

kentucky bourbon 2.5%
vanilla bourbon 1%
vanillin 1%
toasted almond 1.5%
coconut extra 1.5%
brown sugar extra 1%
nut bread (acetyl pyrazine) 1.5%

for a 10ml sample let .5%= 1 drop 20 drops= 1ml pg flavor base.

would appreciate feedback and happy to answer questions/compare notes.

 

[AmandaD]

I made this two days ago, let it steep a tiny bit and I must say it is GOOD!! I am going to post this in the Clone Recipes folder.

I'm going to make this too - but I'm not sure I'm going to use the AP - I just don't taste that in CL (not sure what it has to do with 'nut bread' from my previous tastings!)

 

[AmandaD]

I made this yesterday. It needed a little steep, so I stuck it in the crockpot for an hour (no more) at 150 degrees and let it sit overnight. It's actually not bad at all, but I'm still deciding what it needs. I don't have the real thing anymore, but I'm pretty sure the coconut was stronger. However, I had to make a couple of flavor substitutes, because I have mostly FA flavors. I used:

TFA kentucky bourbon 2.5%
FA vanilla bourbon 1%
vanillin 1% - ACK - FORGOT THIS ONE!
TFA toasted almond 1.5%
FA coconut 1.5%
TFA brown sugar extra 1%
TFA acetyl pyrazine 1.5%

So now I need to make it again with the vanillin, which I totally missed! It's really a very nice recipe, but I need to vape a bit more to figure out the coconut (it may be that I used a different brand of coconut).

 

[wrxified]

Sounds perfect really. If I could change one thing with the original Castle Long it would be to tone down the coconut.

 

[jonhall2]

folks, thank you for trying the recipe and the helpful responses. i think i mentioned earlier that i make finished single flavor bottles and mix from them small ready to vape 5-10ml batches. i try the resulting batch with different devices. first, i taste with a hh.357 atomizer. then an igo-l rda. if i like what i am getting i will fill a protank. if i really like, i fill a kayfun. i vape two tanks without changing coils or rewicking. midway on a third tank i begin to get some off flavors. this is no different from FP. all the while i have a kayfun tanked with five pawns for straight up comparison. i have been vaping many ml of juice to get this recipe down since the thread got started. i was nearly out of kentucky bourbon with only a few ml of finished juice left. my dripping bottle had 4-5 ml of cl clone and i added the remaining ky bourbon on hand to free up the bottle for a refill. a happy accident occurred. while it was a bit too much bourbon, i really enjoyed the taste and got alot closer to the real thing. the other flavors were still present and didn't wash out as you might expect with that much bourbon added. i made a new 30ml of ky bourbon and a 15ml of nut bread(acetyl pyrazine). up until last week i had to substitute banana nut bread and couldn't wait to get the ape vape out of my efforts to exact a clone. my reformulation is minor and the only thing lacking is the coconut flavor i get from FP. not being a big fan of coconut it doesn't bother me that it is a tad muted. and as i said earlier, i have to use a dripper to truly reveal coconut in FP. if you add more coconut extra(already strong) flavoring from TFA it starts to bite so there has to be another better tasting and smelling flavoring out there. using droppers to measure i am vaping:
4 parts ky bourbon
1 part (madagascar) vanilla bourbon
2 parts nut bread (acetyl pyrazine)
2 parts toasted almond
1 part vanillin
1 part brown sugar extra
1 part coconut extra (adding more won't improve)

it is so good i am calling it 90% there. i would like to try more almond with less or no nut bread and find a more flavorful coconut with a nice toasted aroma. thanks again for the suggestions. the nut bread thing has me curious.

 

[jonhall2]

Flavor Apprentice would suit me fine, as the 10 % base is easy to work with ! I will look some more for the sites you mentioned, thank you.

Would you say that for the most part PG, VG, and nic solutions are of similar quality among different vendors ?


just to double check, am i to imply that Flavor Apprentice is WL's own brand ?

i don't think TFA is exclusive to WL. WL has been a great vendor with fast service and good value though. i may mistakenly refer to TFA flavors as WL sometimes. they carry other manufacturers flavors as well. i order from WL TFA concentrates. they come with WL labels. easy to confuse.

i have bought nic, pg, vg separately from avid vapors and mad vapes. all top quality and trusted vendors. later, i bought quarts of pg,vg from amazon. it is the same thing except the kosher certificate was valid for 1 year and had recently expired. i have sourced some other vendors for bulk quantities and massive savings by the gallon. this level could cut my present cost of 10% retail to 5%. haven't pulled the trigger for a gallon of 100mg/ml nic base yet. i vape 10mg/ml and it would last me a couple decades if stored properly. longer if i am able to cut down on the concentration needed to keep me from craving smokes. i can vape 5mg/ml subohm but you go through much more juice by that method. i enjoy vaping 1-1.5 ohm builds using 30ga mostly, some 28ga. just got some nichrome 60 wire saturday. on top of trying to clone CL, i am also tasting same using different wire. everything about vaping is so subjective and variable that the only way to figure out what you like is try it all. i have no interest in becoming a vendor this late in the game with an uncertain future for all. i do want to secure my future of vaping without regard of regulation.

 

[AmandaD]

I made this yesterday. It needed a little steep, so I stuck it in the crockpot for an hour (no more) at 150 degrees and let it sit overnight. It's actually not bad at all, but I'm still deciding what it needs. I don't have the real thing anymore, but I'm pretty sure the coconut was stronger. However, I had to make a couple of flavor substitutes, because I have mostly FA flavors. I used:

TFA kentucky bourbon 2.5%
FA vanilla bourbon 1%
vanillin 1% - ACK - FORGOT THIS ONE!
TFA toasted almond 1.5%
FA coconut 1.5%
TFA brown sugar extra 1%
TFA acetyl pyrazine 1.5%

So now I need to make it again with the vanillin, which I totally missed! It's really a very nice recipe, but I need to vape a bit more to figure out the coconut (it may be that I used a different brand of coconut).

I made this again a couple of days ago with some small adjustments. I also stuck it in the crockpot for a few hours, because in my experience AP needs time to steep. As I mentioned, I've been out of CL for ages, so apart from smelling the dregs in a tiny bottle I can't compare - but nonetheless this is a very nice vape at 10% flavoring, so I might make up a bigger bottle:

TFA Kentucky Bourbon 2.5%
FA Vanilla Bourbon 1%
Vanillin (from crystals) - 1%
TFA Toasted Almond 1.5%
FA Coconut 2% (still can't taste it)
TFA Brown Sugar Extra 0.5% (reduced from 1% which was a little to sweet for me)
TFA AP 1.5%

I'd still like to tweek the coconut so there's at least some hint of it, which I'm still not getting.

 

[jonhall2]

amanda, check out the quantities in post #32. i tried some different variations since then using no AP and more almond. did not like, it had a bite. AP is a roasted, toasted nutty flavor with a nice aroma. it compliments the toasted almond and makes the mix more savory. there has to be a source for toasted coconut flavor that smells like hawaiian tropic good. i wish you could smell FP. they must be doing in house extractions. you can smell bourbon and toasted nuts. the coconut flavor is only detected when i use a dripper. when i do taste coconut its like the real thing. i am doing some studying on how to extract the alcohol from a bottle of jack daniels safely. i've never tasted reserve but i bet the oak flavor from JD would carry over. i don't smell or taste oak at all in regular CL. until i find better flavors, post #32 is my all day/all night vape.

 

[AmandaD]

amanda, check out the quantities in post #32. i tried some different variations since then using no AP and more almond. did not like, it had a bite. AP is a roasted, toasted nutty flavor with a nice aroma. it compliments the toasted almond and makes the mix more savory. there has to be a source for toasted coconut flavor that smells like hawaiian tropic good. i wish you could smell FP. they must be doing in house extractions. you can smell bourbon and toasted nuts. the coconut flavor is only detected when i use a dripper. when i do taste coconut its like the real thing. i am doing some studying on how to extract the alcohol from a bottle of jack daniels safely. i've never tasted reserve but i bet the oak flavor from JD would carry over. i don't smell or taste oak at all in regular CL. until i find better flavors, post #32 is my all day/all night vape.

I'll try your modified reipe when I finish this one up. You talk about parts - is this still at 10% flavoring?

 

[Richierich84]

Sorry for the lack of math skills, but I want to try this by making a 30ml while adding the flavors independently. Not a pre mixed flavor base. What would the percentages be? I'm looking to do 60/40 12 mg nic. Do the above percentages apply on this scale? Any help would be appreciated!

 

[AmandaD]

Sorry for the lack of math skills, but I want to try this by making a 30ml while adding the flavors independently. Not a pre mixed flavor base. What would the percentages be? I'm looking to do 60/40 12 mg nic. Do the above percentages apply on this scale? Any help would be appreciated!

Thi
The percentages apply to all amounts, which is why we use them - it makes it easy to make 5ml or 500ml! So, make your nic base, and then add the flavoring in the percentages listed.

 

[jonhall2]

I'll try your modified reipe when I finish this one up. You talk about parts - is this still at 10% flavoring?

my personal vapes never exceed 10% flavoring in total mix. parts are just an easy way to express ratio of one flavor to another in the recipe. i have tried so many variations that counting full droppers as one part was an easy way to keep what i made in my head.

i ordered some new flavors from flavor west. received today. they recommend 15-20% usage on most everything. are they more dilute? i am having a tad of anxiety trying to wrap my head around this stuff. you have to buy 4oz. bottles to try their flavors. i am assuming they doubly dilute their concentrates with pg? who knows? my vape world has been trial and error from day one and i see no end to that method from here. very disappointed with FW product. feel a rant coming so i'm logging out.

 

[AmandaD]

Hmmm, some people like stronger juice than others. I have a link to a spreadsheet which is pretty good for starting points - I usually take the lowest and start from there:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr..._hQ6Fu8HdEwwR2dLRUJlVjlabEN1NG1ucktuUVE&gid=7

You can get Flavor West in FAR less sizes than 4 ounces! I think I got my last bottle from Ecigexpress - probably (I hardly ever order FW, but I needed one flavor)