CDC Finally Saying Stop Vaping THC

[Woofer]

The point wasn't "why", nor was it "statistical probability". The point is there could be something else, including but not limited to Vit-E-a from the nic-side.

I hope and expect that statistical probability are very much a part of every CDC investigation.
You said the vitamin e acetate could have been used in both e-juice and c-juice. Yeah it could have been but there is no reason why it would have been and many reasons why not. CDC knows this too.

It is my opinion that as a whole elected officials, government agencies and personal have largely f'ed up this "investigation".

 

[AttyPops]

Fine, but again you're conflating points and moving goalposts. There's no doubt the elected officials, and many gov agencies are f-ing around with all this, adversely. Nor did I say the CDC doesn't use statistics.

I'm saying they're building fact-based decision trees (or whatever tool). They won't say it's 100% cannabis related, unless they can "PROVE it with math." Their data said otherwise. I just gave examples.

I hope and expect that statistical probability are very much a part of every CDC investigation.
You said the vitamin e acetate could have been used in both e-juice and c-juice. Yeah it could have been but there is no reason why it would have been and many reasons why not. CDC knows this too.

It is my opinion that as a whole elected officials, government agencies and personal have largely f'ed up this "investigation".

 

[Horselady154]

Yet, to my knowledge they are not shutting down cannabis dispensaries; only nicotine vape shops.

 

[AttyPops]

Yet, to my knowledge they are not shutting down cannabis dispensaries; only nicotine vape shops.

Yes, but that's a different "they" than I'm talking about.

That's the "save the children" agenda from governors, AFAIK.

EDIT:
But again, me and my tin-foil hat still thinks there's a master plan at the federal level to turn all of this over to BT and to hit smoking next.

 

[Horselady154]

Yes, but that's a different "they" than I'm talking about.

That's the "save the children" agenda from governors, AFAIK.

While they are talking about the hospitalizations and deaths?

Both state and federal talk about the hospitalizations and deaths, conflate that with teen nicotine vaping and then solely go after nicotine vaping. They are disingenuous at best.

Tell me, is Romney's bill to shut down THC vaping too, or is it just nicotine?

 

[AttyPops]

Romney who?

Besides, since when aren't politicians opportunists? But my governor, for example, was going after FLAVORS because of a report of increased vaping by the kiddies.

It's all a perfect storm.

I was just trying to keep on topic when discussing the exact wording of the CDC's statement. It was a pretty focused point. Generally, big picture, this all sucks.

 

[Baditude]

Yes, but that's a different "they" than I'm talking about.

That's the "save the children" agenda from governors, AFAIK.

EDIT:
But again, me and my tin-foil hat still thinks there's a master plan at the federal level to turn all of this over to BT and to hit smoking next.

I think you're both right. Before the black market carts hit the news, policy makers were discussing flavor bans because of a socalled youth vaping epidemic. The bad carts just accelerated the bans even faster. No doubt its all a planned takeover by tobacco to take over the market. Coincidence that Marlboro's IRQS is hitting the market just as the bans go into effect? I don't think so. Plays into the Master Settlement Agreement perfectly.

 

[stols001]

I have never been that comfortable with concentrates, wax and the like. They have their place in the medical world of marijuana like Rick Simpson oil and whatever. My son has completed that process, by the way, he has taken an entire plant and reduced it to something so potent, you don't really want it-- unless you are dying of cancer or have epilepsy, in my opinion.

Also, Wax is EXTREMELY high in THC, and VERY low in the minor alkaloids. It's kind of like nicotine versus tobacco. My son used it because it lasted longer for his condition, he worked, and etc.

However, dispensaries are LICENSED for a reason. While I am not a huge fan of like the concentrates--- My husband like, got some sort of SUPER concentrate for me after a particularly bad oral surgery and I was um, asleep for 24 hours straight. He tried to wake me up to take my meds (apparently) and (apparently) I screamed "LEAVE ME ALONE EVERYTHING HURTS!" and went back to passing out. I have no memory of this, and was apparently fine.

But if you have some "Dregs" from your "Vitamin E experiment, " and you wind up giving customers a couple samples that have TONS of THC in them, I could see that as legit. I mean , if you aren't mixing properly a few "dreg" samples will have THC OFF THE CHARTS in them, but also probably enough Vitamin E to be bad.

The CDC will never figure this out, by the way. They have no knowledge of the products and materials they are dealing with, and they are too proud to Ask a Stoner, any NUMBER of whom could PROBABLY tell you how it is accomplished.

However, dispensaries are LICENSED. JUST LIKE VAPE SHOPS, if things go horribly awry there will be intervention. If you want to vape oils, (I do not recommend it, I personally think a dry herb vaporizer is where it is at, plus just regular bud not that I'm smoking at the moment OR vaping) but seriously, it's going to be your best high, and the alkaloids can matter quite a bit, depending.

You'd be shocked at the variety what with all the cross breeding, etc.

But a GOOD dispensary with a GOOD reputation is not going to serve you up Vitamin E. It just isn't.

Anna

 

[Sloth Tonight]

MA shut down all vaping products. MJ included.

 

[Woofer]

you're conflating points and moving goalposts.

Perhaps, but I don't think so.

They won't say it's 100% cannabis related, unless they can "PROVE it with math."

Perhaps, I think the CDC won't say that until their masters give them the go ahead. (AKA NeVeR)
In fact that is one reason why I am commenting. The science, what science? I'm seeing fear mongering and sensationalization from "them", not science and logic.

 

[Mazinny]

Yet, to my knowledge they are not shutting down cannabis dispensaries; only nicotine vape shops.

The CDC didn't shut down vape shops. Charlie Baker, the governor of Massachusetts did. And I think mj cartridges are banned too.

 

[AttyPops]

In fact that is one reason why I am commenting.

OK. Well, I respect you and your opinion, even if we read the CDC statements differently.

I certainly can't blame anyone for being upset about the overreach we're seeing from all levels of government here. In fact, I'm willing to share:

We can all be in style. There's versions for the ladies too.

Because right now there's 50 takes on the why's of all this, but pretty much consensus from anyone that's remotely in the know about vaping that the result is B.S.

 

[Blitzdonlife]

OK. Well, I respect you and your opinion, even if we read the CDC statements differently.

I certainly can't blame anyone for being upset about the overreach we're seeing from all levels of government here. In fact, I'm willing to share:

We can all be in style. There's versions for the ladies too.

Because right now there's 50 takes on the why's of all this, but pretty much consensus from anyone that's remotely in the know about vaping that the result is B.S.

Nice hat, was it on clearance

 

[englishmick]

The point wasn't "why", nor was it "statistical probability". The point is there could be something else, including but not limited to Vit-E-a from the nic-side. Given what they "knew" at the time. Nobody asked for, nor did they publish, their intuition.

This is a "Let's work the problem, people. Don't make it worse by guessing [assuming]!" situation, to paraphrase quote Gene Kranz from Apollo 13 movie.

This is about the CDC building a decision tree or whatever tool they use in their epidemiology. And they try real hard not to assume anything and make an error. They go-wide.

At least that's my .

That's probably the right way to proceed if you are a scientist writing up preliminary results to be distributed to other scientists. It probably isn't the right way to draw up a press release for consumption by scared consumers in the middle of an overheated public panic.

The CDC has a dual role. They have to do the science, and need to stick to rigorous standards. But they also have a critical role in providing guidance to the public. They should understand the difference. They should take into account how their words will be interpreted by lay readers and used by the press. I don't think they did a very good job of that.

 

[gsmit1]

The CDC didn't shut down vape shops. Charlie Baker, the governor of Massachusetts did. And I think mj cartridges are banned too.

The CDC gave Charlie Baker, and all the rest of these governors the plausible justification for doing so.

 

[fiddleshe]

The CDC gave Charlie Baker, and all the rest of these governors the plausible justification for doing so.

No not really they didnt. Maybe in the publics eye. But that wouldnt hold up in the court.

 

[Mazinny]

The CDC gave Charlie Baker, and all the rest of these governors the plausible justification for doing so.

Ok, that's your take. Acknowledged.

I was responding to a post that seemed to suggest the CDC shut down vape shops, and left THC vapes on the market. I pointed out that so far only Massachusetts has banned nicotine vapes, and they banned THC vapes as well. 49 other states didn't interpret CDC's pronouncements as an urgent call to shut down all vaping immediately.

 

[Katatawnic]

"Some patients have said they vaped only nicotine, but the Wisconsin researchers found that some patients who made that claim actually had used THC."

You mean they LIED?! (gasps)

 

[Mazinny]

Perhaps, but I don't think so.



Perhaps, I think the CDC won't say that until their masters give them the go ahead. (AKA NeVeR)
In fact that is one reason why I am commenting. The science, what science? I'm seeing fear mongering and sensationalization from "them", not science and logic.

Who are their masters?

 

[gsmit1]

Ok, that's your take. Acknowledged.

I was responding to a post that seemed to suggest the CDC shut down vape shops, and left THC vapes on the market. I pointed out that so far only Massachusetts has banned nicotine vapes, and they banned THC vapes as well. 49 other states didn't interpret CDC's pronouncements as an urgent call to shut down all vaping immediately.

So you don't feel that banning ALL flavors except the tobacco ones that nobody wants isn't effectively shutting down vaping in Michigan?

And that the CDC's conflation of all vaporization products and technologies into a single entity (yes they did, even if not explicitly) is not the teeth behind this action?