Clone Versus Authentic Discussion
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Just about every clone I bought works just as good as its authentic. If they didn't, I wouldn't of bought it.
That's only your perception ... you just don't see the subtle corners that have been cut on the clone.
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I know where this is going. I say "Not the ones I have" and you go "But mine does" and we're at square one. No harm in that
All I can say is that all the gear I either own or have handled clones and originals of, there are nits to pick with all the clones. Possibly with the exception of my Magma clone. That one's pretty decent. And the OEM Aqua v2 'clone', but that's another story. I have yet to see a gennie clone get it perfectly right, tho. Even little things like loose fasteners makes all the difference in level of annoyance - like an unreliable setup. Get the wick/coil/screw 'geometry' slightly wrong, and you're looking at a yet another level of annoyance - like hot legs. Use the wrong materials in insulators - like melty plastic instead of PEEK in a Dome, and you got a pretty useless atty.
Not really joining the discussion here lol. It's neither in my interest nor ability - to change anyones views. Just stating my experience with clones.
I'd be curious to know how many of these authentic manufacturers actually file international patents? I know that Taifun was able through PayPal to issue a C&D order to both FastTech and Focalecig removing all clones with branding. Aspire was another! If companies like Svoemesto are losing so much money from clones why then aren't they following the same route as Taifun or Aspire?
IMO, the only real reason to buy originals is to support the designers. They're too small to patent their designs, let alone defend them in court expect enforcement against Random Nameless Chinese Manufacturer.
That said, I buy clones occasionally. Some are crap. Some aren't. I tacked an Orchid clone from Fasttech for $10 (and well rated and thought of in the comments) onto an order and it was pretty poorly machined. There were tailings left in the air channels, one of the screws in the positive pole was cross threaded and I had to drill it out, plus many other small defects that needed sorting out. It worked very well once I fixed it up, but I probably spent a good hour doing so.
On the other hand, I bought a Tobeco Derringer clone, and that's very well made. Getting back to my first part about supporting the original designers and companies, there are plenty of good, cheap machine shops in China who will build you a small run of a product for a fraction of the price.
That said, I buy clones occasionally. Some are crap. Some aren't. I tacked an Orchid clone from Fasttech for $10 (and well rated and thought of in the comments) onto an order and it was pretty poorly machined. There were tailings left in the air channels, one of the screws in the positive pole was cross threaded and I had to drill it out, plus many other small defects that needed sorting out. It worked very well once I fixed it up, but I probably spent a good hour doing so.
On the other hand, I bought a Tobeco Derringer clone, and that's very well made. Getting back to my first part about supporting the original designers and companies, there are plenty of good, cheap machine shops in China who will build you a small run of a product for a fraction of the price.
Honestly most mod makers have NO trouble selling their mods even with the amount of clones out there. I mean the Stingray X by JDTech sold out in a matter of days after being released. Not only that but the clone was released BEFORE the authentic and it still sold extremely fast. The problem is the limited amount that is available.
I know where this is going. I say "Not the ones I have" and you go "But mine does" and we're at square one. No harm in that
All I can say is that all the gear I either own or have handled clones and originals of, there are nits to pick with all the clones. Possibly with the exception of my Magma clone. That one's pretty decent. And the OEM Aqua v2 'clone', but that's another story. I have yet to see a gennie clone get it perfectly right, tho. Even little things like loose fasteners makes all the difference in level of annoyance - like an unreliable setup. Get the wick/coil/screw 'geometry' slightly wrong, and you're looking at a yet another level of annoyance - like hot legs. Use the wrong materials in insulators - like melty plastic instead of PEEK in a Dome, and you got a pretty useless atty.
Not really joining the discussion here lol. It's neither in my interest nor ability - to change anyones views. Just stating my experience with clones.
With the aithentic Kayfun V4 selling for $180 and the ones I bought, Tobeco for $21.50 shipped is a Ginormous price difference and some people who owned both said they could not tell them apart. The Tobeco KF4 looks and works great. I have a Black one and the Stainless steel one.
With all the clones that I buy, I wait and listen to all the reviews of how good or bad they are and choose the best one. I have had zero problems with any of them.
I have authentics I use almost daily that I've been beating on for years,and they preform as well as the day I bought them and show no sign of falling appart anytime soon..whereas almost evey clone I've every had starts to unravel after a period of time......just saying.
I agree my biggest gripe....don't ..... about clones if you release 100 at a time.
Must be poorly made clones that you had. What clones have you had that fall apart? I agree that some are made like crap but they do make some good ones that are as good as an authentic one.
Thank God for clones. My broke ... would never be able to afford half the stuff today! Vapor flask. I heard the clone works identical. The only thing is the buttons on the bottom do not line up to be in the same direction (Whatever). I feel the clones are saving half of us who are using vaping instead of smoking tobacco.
All atomizers are inherently alike. They're all cloned from the inventor who built the first 3 post dripper with a hole drilled in it for air.
I'd say its 50/50, but only for the proper clones and not clones of the clones. All this stuff isn't NASA equipment, it doesn't need Nth degree of precision to function as it should. China has been really hauling ... with plenty authentic designs that still cost 1/4 or 1/6 of the original equivalent and work just as well.
Really comes down to whether you want a porsche or a corolla to commute to work. Performance is the same in traffic.
I've seen plenty of reference to the wheel in this debate. It fits. I don't like the counterfeiting that is going on. But when I see something I like I will not buy the most expensive one. If a mod maker wants to produce 5000 pieces, watch them sell like hot cakes, and view it as his/her legacy that's one thing. But if the mod maker didn't react appropriately to demand it's another thing entirely. Either way there will be counterfeits and clones. I think my maytag might be a clone. It cleans my clothes just like my whirlpool did.
It appears to me that there are two types of manufacturers of what some people "GLOWINGLY" refer to as "Authentics": 1) the Genuine, respectable companies like Svomesto, who actually try to do something innovative, and 2) the rest of them that simply do one more machining step to make their hardware a tad bit prettier and put an insane price on them. I wont name the ""type 2"" manufacturers, everyone knows who they are.
Machining things to the next higher level of tolerance and/or finish is not "admirable", I've been around enough machine shops to see that it's only another two or three minutes and should not demand a 500% mark-up in price, this is quite simply "price-gouging". But there are people around that will pay it; we all know why that is too so I don't need to repeat it.
These threads get so heated. Truth is, you only have to look at the facts, they don't lie.
Fact1) The clones show what things really cost,
Fact 2) there's no engineering or product development going on except on something like the Kayfun 4 (no comment on that)
Fact 3) the extra cost for machining to higher tolerance; maybe 10 man-minutes (can't even use man-hours)
Fact 4) the extra final cost is pure profit
In summary, I see absolutely no reason why these so called "authentics", who just copy the status quo, have no legal rights to the intellectual property, have no patents nor rights of ownership of any sort, are even called "authentics". The only innovation is provided by the clones who use novel and forward-thinking manufacturing processes to make the items affordable. Here is where the real innovation comes in and kudos should go. Do they use us as beta testers? Yes, who better?, Apple does to! Then like Apple, they jump in quickly to modify and/or offer upgraded parts. If they don't address it, it's because the item was to cheap to warrant shipping and handling anyway.
In the immortal words of Forest Gump: "that's all I have to say about that"
Machining things to the next higher level of tolerance and/or finish is not "admirable", I've been around enough machine shops to see that it's only another two or three minutes and should not demand a 500% mark-up in price, this is quite simply "price-gouging". But there are people around that will pay it; we all know why that is too so I don't need to repeat it.
These threads get so heated. Truth is, you only have to look at the facts, they don't lie.
Fact1) The clones show what things really cost,
Fact 2) there's no engineering or product development going on except on something like the Kayfun 4 (no comment on that)
Fact 3) the extra cost for machining to higher tolerance; maybe 10 man-minutes (can't even use man-hours)
Fact 4) the extra final cost is pure profit
In summary, I see absolutely no reason why these so called "authentics", who just copy the status quo, have no legal rights to the intellectual property, have no patents nor rights of ownership of any sort, are even called "authentics". The only innovation is provided by the clones who use novel and forward-thinking manufacturing processes to make the items affordable. Here is where the real innovation comes in and kudos should go. Do they use us as beta testers? Yes, who better?, Apple does to! Then like Apple, they jump in quickly to modify and/or offer upgraded parts. If they don't address it, it's because the item was to cheap to warrant shipping and handling anyway.
In the immortal words of Forest Gump: "that's all I have to say about that"
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