Clones and China.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Runningw235

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 31, 2014
97
82
Virginia
The primary reason that vape gear is expensive is the fact that it is still pretty much a niche market. The vast majority of the population does not have an interest in buying vape stuff.

I have a provari and a cloned vv/vw mod. The difference is night and day, but my experience is anecdotal because that's only two mods.
 

plumb4u2

Full Member
Verified Member
Jan 21, 2014
50
25
Forest Hill,MD USA
I'm sorry but your analogy of a clone is totally off base and ridiculous to be honest

cloning by definition is to copy something or imitate it

A Chevy, Ford, Porsche..whatever... is not a clone of the first car because it has 4 wheels and drives from point A to B

an iPhone is not a clone of the first cell phone just because you can call people on it
let's say tomorrow I introduce a cell phone that looks exactly like an iPhone and put the Apple logo on the back....that's a clone....and Apples lawyers will be knocking on my door in a couple of days

you really should think about your statements before you type them
 

Sirius

Star Puppy
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 19, 2013
18,632
76,259
North Carolina
This is somewhat my view. A mech mod is just a tube and a fire button, right? To eliminate anything seperating the battery from the device on top? So less can go wrong and there's no chip interfering with the power level? Simplicity, right? Then why $250 for a polished metal tube? For the etching in it?

I guess so, the etchings right? A few good polishings and the lions head is almost gone on the King. The Neme? It's well on it's way out too. I got no beef with China if they want to go as far as a laser etching. If you know your chit you can tell the clones from the real deal anyway.

Front Engravings: The clone's engraving on the King is not done very well while the engraving on the authentic piece is very deep and detailed. Also notice the different fonts on the serial number.

10850737714_87fa3e1387_c.jpg
 
Last edited:

bulldog63h

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 29, 2012
596
556
Elizabethton Tennessee
I'm sorry but your analogy of a clone is totally off base and ridiculous to be honest

cloning by definition is to copy something or imitate it

A Chevy, Ford, Porsche..whatever... is not a clone of the first car because it has 4 wheels and drives from point A to B

an iPhone is not a clone of the first cell phone just because you can call people on it
let's say tomorrow I introduce a cell phone that looks exactly like an iPhone and put the Apple logo on the back....that's a clone....and Apples lawyers will be knocking on my door in a couple of days

you really should think about your statements before you type them

Yeah, that example is more building on an idea. A clone, by definition, is a 1:1 copy of every aspect of the item in question.
 

jimbodaddy74

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Dec 23, 2013
717
7,500
Everywhere you want to be
I've put forth this analogy before, but it bears repeating to those of you who don't know the difference between a clone and a counterfeit.

If I buy a Japanese made Fernandes LE-1, it will look like a Fender Stratocaster, but with different headstock styling and labeling. The quality may or may not be the same as a genuine Fender, but since I am completely aware that it is not a genuine Fender, it is perfectly fine and acceptable. As well as legal, because Fernandes is NOT trying to defraud me and say that it is genuine. However, if I were to buy a Fernandes guitar that had the same headstock, the same labeling and the same price while lying to tell me that it IS the genuine article, that is a counterfeit, and not cool.

That being said, if I can buy a Fernandes guitar that has comparable quality to a Fender guitar, while knowing that it is not a Fender, and at a fraction of the price, then I'm golden.
 

Rossum

Eleutheromaniac
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 14, 2013
16,081
105,232
SE PA
This is somewhat my view. A mech mod is just a tube and a fire button, right?
It's actually surprising difficult to make a switch good for 10A of DC that will run reliably for many thousands of cycles without maintenance. Why? When a switch contact first opens, an arc will form. With AC, that arc tends to self-extinguish when the voltage across the gap between the switch contacts goes to zero 120 times per second, but with DC, that never happens. So you end up with much more energy is dissipated in the arc before it's extinguished due to sheer distance, and this does considerably more damage to the switch's contacts.
 

Flt Simulation

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 26, 2014
2,509
2,472
Florida
Well, you can call them clones, replicas, counterfeits or reproductions ... but, as far as I'm concerned, these cheap fake items that the Chinese keep making of the originals are mostly junk and not known to last very long.

And the Chinese have been making cheap fakes longer than anyone on this planet ... They just can't seem to design anything by themselves, so they just copy everybody elses products.

In a way, I could care less, but when they put the Corporate Logo of the real product on there cheap fake ... I think that is just going to far! ... It's just wrong!

And that Communist government over there just don't seem to care what these companies are doing. The Chinese government could put an end to it [if] they really wanted to.
 

Maggiemw

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 23, 2013
767
1,791
Middle East
Well, you can call them clones, replicas, counterfeits or reproductions ... but, as far as I'm concerned, these cheap fake items that the Chinese keep making of the originals are mostly junk and not known to last very long.

And the Chinese have been making cheap fakes longer than anyone on this planet ... They just can't seem to design anything by themselves, so they just copy everybody elses products.

In a way, I could care less, but when they put the Corporate Logo of the real product on there cheap fake ... I think that is just going to far! ... It's just wrong!

And that Communist government over there just don't seem to care what these companies are doing. The Chinese government could put an end to it [if] they really wanted to.

Technology has been captured, copied, stolen, borrowed, cloned, reproduced etc. ever since man discovered he was a "homo sapiens habilis" and that he had a brain and thumbs for a reason. :laugh: That is how technology spreads.

Marco Polo stole silk worms and mulberry leaves and smuggled them out of China, despite laws against it. Illicit trade didn't start with him, but strangely enough, the West thinks his was a heroic act, not blatant, conscious theft of technology.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the settlers in the North East appropriating British textile technology without permission or paying manufacturing rights...seen as 'patriotic' by many if not most present-day Americans and as quite legitimate.

So a holier-than-thou kind of attitude about industry and trade laws is counter-historical and falls into the "if my country does it, it's good and if somebody else's country does it, they're bad" type of silly thinking.

The Chinese invented papermaking, printing, gunpowder, the compass, waterwheel irrigation, many types of metal forges, paper money, noodles, steamers, many pottery techniques, terracing...and the list continues for pages. Including e-liquids and e-cig technology. All things that have contributed mightily to the improvement of the human condition.

Far from being enemies, the USA and China are partners and it isn't a one-way street. If they weren't, you'd have trade barriers and official sanctions and boycotts in place. You'd be risking fines and other not-nice stuff every time you tried to order something from FT. :laugh:

As common consumers, we are profiting from the spread of technology and the ability of industry everywhere to produce products we can afford and that make our little lives that much more comfortable. But production shifts definitely have their downsides, too - think of the redundancy of all the home textile weavers when mechanical looms took over, or the massive unemployment caused by the agricultural revolution in the 18th and 19th centuries, or the decline of heavy industry in the 1980s. We're in that too, and it isn't a pretty sight. Yelling at or denigrating the Chinese isn't going to reverse any trends, however.
 

InTheShade

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 26, 2013
4,122
4,884
South Texas
Do you suppose there still making drywall over there in China? I would bet there isn't much of a demand for it anymore.

Don't see much Chinese powdered baby milk on the shelves anymore either.

China is not the only country to struggle with contaminated food chains. Many, many people have died in this country due to people putting profits in front of food safety. This is not a crime limited only to our Chinese cousins.
 
Last edited:

InTheShade

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 26, 2013
4,122
4,884
South Texas
And that Communist government over there just don't seem to care what these companies are doing. The Chinese government could put an end to it [if] they really wanted to.

The communist government has to provide jobs, and US buyers freely and gladly commission Chinese factories to produce goods based on US buyer specifications.

So please, don't blame the Chinese government, the Chinese people or some perceived race or polictical trait for the appearance of clones on our shores.

We created this monster and we continue to support it and feed it by our out-of-control consumerism.
 

InTheShade

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 26, 2013
4,122
4,884
South Texas
I thought we Americans loved laissez-faire capitalism? I'm only slightly joking. The clone/counterfeit issue is a symptom of having trade partnerships between countries with unequal property, labor, and environmental laws.

I agree, to a point. But we do it too. If we want to talk about environmental laws then we've not even ratified the Kyoto protocol. There are 191 nations that have, but we choose not to. Mainly because it'll be too expensive to do so. I'm fine with that really, we do have to protect our own people and jobs, but let's not think it's only 'other' nations that cherry pick laws, treaties and protocols to enforce to help their own people and political agendas.
 

Miira

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 15, 2012
404
327
Seaside, CA
I agree, to a point. But we do it too. If we want to talk about environmental laws then we've not even ratified the Kyoto protocol. There are 191 nations that have, but we choose not to. Mainly because it'll be too expensive to do so. I'm fine with that really, we do have to protect our own people and jobs, but let's not think it's only 'other' nations that cherry pick laws, treaties and protocols to enforce to help their own people and political agendas.

I agree, which is why I left it at a generalized "unequal".

Chinese labor won't always be so cheap and there are a billion potential customers there for US businesses.
 

Ryedan

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 31, 2012
12,869
19,652
Ontario, Canada
Ugh. I'm just saying everything in reality is a clone. I'm not saying I would never ever buy a clone... But for now that's all I've bought is authentic. The reason being the warranty and hearing horror stories of threading issues. If my original nemesis has an issue I can get another through warranty. Can you do that with a clone?

Picking at words are we? LOL....

Well, you did say "I don't buy clones" and now again "I'm just saying everything in reality is a clone" and "But for now that's all I've bought is authentic".

I don't usually pick nits, but you're tossing a lot of them out there, LOL.
 

Sirius

Star Puppy
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 19, 2013
18,632
76,259
North Carolina
The communist government has to provide jobs, and US buyers freely and gladly commission Chinese factories to produce goods based on US buyer specifications.

So please, don't blame the Chinese government, the Chinese people or some perceived race or polictical trait for the appearance of clones on our shores.

We created this monster and we continue to support it and feed it by our out-of-control consumerism.

As someone who use to build CNC machines and actually saw Chinese walking around the shop looking to buy a few, I can tell you that the whole reason mechanicals are so expensive is because of the labor costs. A CNC machine is around $100 an hour here in the USA where as in China I bet its 1/4 that if not lower. It's our own damn fault the Chinese has out priced us. But, there is nothing quite as nice as a CNC turned thread or tube. Logos are laser etched and once the program is set up, it's simple. US mechanicals shouldn't cost $250 imho. Until the price of mechanicals made in the US drops I'll buy China knock offs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread