Clones Clones Clones...tired of it

[Asbestos4004]

A couple years ago, the authentic vs clone argument carried a little more weight. If a modder today is shocked and surprised that his creation got cloned, then he's an idiot. Like getting upset that the hot stove burned your hand for the 5th time. So, the 'taking food off the modders table' stance is ridiculous.
I buy authentic. I do this, not on a moral basis, but on a self satisfaction basis. Also, after nearly 4 years, I know what I want and what works for me. Therefore, I don't need every device produced. That being said, I over pay for a lot of my stuff and I get my money's worth from the rest of it. I don't have a problem with people buying clones unless they feel the need to bash me for my choices in gear. Judging people by the price of their gear has always been the silliest thing I've experienced on this forum...and that goes both ways. buy what works for you and enjoy it.

 

[smokinGAVIN]

R&D?
On a flashlight?

On their logo?
Sub par materials?

Uhm... No.

As a former manufacturer of automotive suspension parts I call BS on that.
You are guessing and using false logic.

I have over 80 mechanicals and probably 20 lbs of atomizers.
Both authentic and clones.
Times have changed.
Clones are now, in many instances, better than the originals.
Made in a bigger better factory in better equipment.

If you collect, by all means buy authentic.
But if you think this makes you morally better, you don't understand business.


And stop with the "slave labor" racism propaganda.
Unless you have actual proof, it's a pretty nasty thing to say.

Like you, I was also in manufacturing and I did actually explore having components subcontracted in China and yes they were cheap. After further meetings with factory owners they did actually inform me that they can use cheaper materials to lower price and that labor costs were negligible.

I do admit that I should have not said slave labor but they were cheaper then labor in my country and wages in my country is already very low. Poverty level kind of low.

My mistake was I did end up working with them and they did copy my designs.

About the metal tube or flashlight as you called it. I did say that in the end, it is still a metal tube.

 

[dwcraig1]

Just my opinion but China seems to have put a hurt'n on the $100 - $200 market with their own designs for under $40. It's just a matter of time where all the clones are clones of Chinese design, they have begun.

 

[Tol]

Judging people by the price of their gear has always been the silliest thing I've experienced on this forum...and that goes both ways. Buy what works for you and enjoy it.

This about sums it all up.

 

[subwayaznm]

I also have no problem for the Clones, there definitely is a market for them. And how can anyone judge someone else's pocket or wallet. You can't or shouldn't. Live and let live

 

[schatz]

You know what really sucks is when a U.S. Mod maker or tank maker has his products made in China for cheap and ships them back here and sells them for exhorbitent prices and they end up being cloned and he complains about it. Sorry long sentence. I have personally seen this, wont name names but I just by clones unless the original is reasonable like the Super T mod when they were going out of business last year, and no those werent made inChina they were made in the U.S. shame they went out fof business but they cant compete pricewise with China.

 

[MMW]

A couple years ago, the authentic vs clone argument carried a little more weight. If a modder today is shocked and surprised that his creation got cloned, then he's an idiot. Like getting upset that the hot stove burned your hand for the 5th time. So, the 'taking food off the modders table' stance is ridiculous.
I buy authentic. I do this, not on a moral basis, but on a self satisfaction basis. Also, after nearly 4 years, I know what I want and what works for me. Therefore, I don't need every device produced. That being said, I over pay for a lot of my stuff and I get my money's worth from the rest of it. I don't have a problem with people buying clones unless they feel the need to bash me for my choices in gear. Judging people by the price of their gear has always been the silliest thing I've experienced on this forum...and that goes both ways. Buy what works for you and enjoy it.

Boom.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Crones? I have crones. I avoid eating bread at all crosts.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Like you, I was also in manufacturing and I did actually explore having components subcontracted in China and yes they were cheap. After further meetings with factory owners they did actually inform me that they can use cheaper materials to lower price and that labor costs were negligible.

I do admit that I should have not said slave labor but they were cheaper then labor in my country and wages in my country is already very low. Poverty level kind of low.

My mistake was I did end up working with them and they did copy my designs.

About the metal tube or flashlight as you called it. I did say that in the end, it is still a metal tube.

Let's stay on topic.
We are discussing e cig industry clones.

I can't educate you on China's economic rules in one post, but there are a ton of reasons Chinese goods are cheaper.
The economy isn't like it is here I the west.
They don't have to cut corners.
The government subsidizes factories and even shipping.
They don't use inferior materials to make mods.
That's ridiculous. Brass, stainless and copper isnt graded like that, nor is is cost prohibitive.
Most of the US copper comes from China.

Don't spread rumors you hear on the internets.

 

[mauricem00]

Morally it's probably wrong but for my wallet it's great. I've gotten a couple authentic but only when there was a special or sale on it.

there is no morality in business. no social contract between business and society. business exist to make as much profit as possible. consumers look for the best price on good products. nature does not recognize intellectual property rights. some governments choose to grant these rights but others do not.it is not immoral to buy clones.just as it is not immoral for companies to produce products in one country that has cheap labor and few environmental regulations and sell those products here. business outsources production to reduce cost and increase profits. consumers outsource consumption to reduce cost and increase the value of their labor.their is no room for morality in capitalism.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

A lot of clones are built better than the originals, so probably not many.

And is the VTC mini by Tobeco really a clone since there is not an authentic one?

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Let's stay on topic.
We are discussing e cig industry clones.

I can't educate you on China's economic rules in one post, but there are a ton of reasons Chinese goods are cheaper.
The economy isn't like it is here I the west.
They don't have to cut corners.
The government subsidizes factories and even shipping.
They don't use inferior materials to make mods.
That's ridiculous. Brass, stainless and copper isnt graded like that, nor is is cost prohibitive.
Most of the US copper comes from China.

Don't spread rumors you hear on the internets.

Most of our brass fittings also come from China.

 

[Dusif]

I'm sorry, I want to rant about clones. Note to China: PLEASE DO SOMETHING TO CONTROL CLONES.

Everything is being cloned these days, even clones are being cloned. I mean it's bad enough that Chinese factories are making copies of well engineered hardware, but even Chinese invented hardware is being copied.

For example, I just bought a Uwell Crown RTA, cost $23, but I had to weed through clones that cost under $20. I mean doesn't anyone care in China? The clones are probably being made in a factory just down the block.

I get clones help the regular guy afford a well engineered products, and I have bought clones too, but please try and buy the real thing whenever possible. This is the only way to curb cloning it seems. Also stick to your local vape shop or online (in-country). Fasttech should be your last option.

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just care about the people behind authentic products, even if it's Chinese authentic.

Vape on

If i offer you a metal tube at the cost of 400$... A man from china then offers you an identical tube where the engravings doesnt match 100% for 40$... What would be the smart thing to buy... I'd go with the 40$ tube... The problem is that the originals often costs way to much compared to their actual value..

Sendt fra min D6603 med Tapatalk

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Another issue with originals is that many are VERY hard to get.
And some will try the clone to see if they are really interested in getting an original.

 

[mauricem00]

The question is where will they have it outsourced? If it's done in china it will be easier for them to clone it since the manufacturing company will be given full specs. No need to reverse engineer it. They may even quietly clone it themselves.

Maybe I'm wrong but I have yet to see a 10$ authentic.

The Clone makers don't care if the device is cheap or expensive, they will clone anything that is selling. They even clone cheap authentics from China. The Chinese manufacturers have the capacity to mass produce and sell a good product at a good price and they get cloned nonetheless. The only way they can probably do it is skimp on the quality of materials or skimp on labor costs which if you talk China, you're talking poverty level wages.

are you aware that china is outsourcing production on some items to Africa to get cheaper labor. for workers it a race to the bottom.

 

[Bad Ninja]

If i offer you a metal tube at the cost of 400$... A man from china then offers you an identical tube where the engravings doesnt match 100% for 40$... What would be the smart thing to buy... I'd go with the 40$ tube... The problem is that the originals often costs way to much compared to their actual value..

Sendt fra min D6603 med Tapatalk

Yes they do, Because skilled labor in the US is not cost efficient any longer.
Union workers demanded higher and higher wages, while the quality of work declined.
It's a no brainer.
Enter small specialty (garage based) shops, who cannot buy materials in bulk, trying to make as much as possible from a very small limited run.
Many even "presell" their product to raise the money to manufacture.
It's a flawed business model.

Facebook only sales=can't afford a business lisc.

 

[Rizzyking]

My last post in this thread as it is not really going anywhere but authentic or clone is down to the person buying it and if a $20 clone gives them the vape they want does it really matter that there were ten authentic options. Budgets are tight for many of us and the clone market has benefited many of us even if you've never bought one as the fear of clones has made many makers more realistic with their pricing. As long as someone is getting an enjoyable vape experience does it really matter on what we're all vapers.

 

[crxess]

name 2 original makers who have the capacity to manufacture the quantities to meet the demands... at an affordable price...

lets mention numbers... company makes 1000 units at 100$ each, or they can outsource, make 100,000 units at 10$ each.... seems option B is going to produce more income.....

Kanger
Aspire

and I'll Toss in Innokin

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Kanger
Aspire

and I'll Toss in Innokin

And Joyetech.

 

[Bad Ninja]

And Joyetech.

Joyetech dropped the ball with the shoddy 510s, and refusing to honor their warranty.
I can't recommend them any more.