Chinese clones Rant / Discussion

[Nikkita6]

I'll continue to buy China clones, because they're what works for me and most importantly, what I can afford. If I found a reasonably priced U.S. made device would I buy it? Sure, but the majority of U.S. made products (i'm not just talking about vape gear) that I see are RIDICULOUSLY overpriced. I'm no no authority on economics or anything of that nature in the least but I do know this, if you want people to buy products, they need to be reasonably priced. It seems to me many of the U.S. manufacturers are pricing themselves out of business, rather than lowering their prices.

Worse than that are the US modders who con their fellow Americans into paying top dollar for a mod that is marketed, and sold as being "made in the USA", when in fact it was made in China, on top of it actually being a clone, of a China made clone ... while also marketed and sold as an original design.

Google "Oni Mod by Vape Los Angeles" .. or even search it here. DESPICABLE! There was some US modder in China this month contracting a limited quantity production run for their mod, that the China manufacturer will be "cloning" after they complete production on the modders "limited quantity" ... which the modder is fully aware of mind you, but this is not a news flash to many.

This thread is laughable ... Now someone please start a thread titled "US con artist modder Rant/Discussion" ... I dare you.

 

[Rossum]

I completely agree that misrepresenting a product's country of origin is reprehensible. It's also illegal:
False Advertising or Labeling - The Rights and Remedies | Stimmel Stimmel and Smith

 

[LouisLeBeau]

The stories I could tell....

If OSHA would require that imports be manufactured according to U.S. manufacturing laws, we could out compete them on price. Entire industries are lost on cost because of basic lack of concern for the health and safety of worker in China. In the stamping die industry, OSHA requires two operators and robotic removal tooling to create one part to insure that nobody gets injured in a stamping. Two buttons have to be pressed by seperate operators and then the part must be extracted robotically. Here is a video of a Chinese stamping operation. Can you imagine this happening in an American press operation? Not on your life...

 

[Say10]

I have no issue with clones and completely understand why people buy them. To each his own.

 

[k702]

everything being said about china now was once said about Japan, Germany, and parts of south America. None of it was true as is none of this fear mongering about china. One economy doing good doesn't mean another is doing bad, it means everything is doing better. The whole pie chart style of viewing the world is ignorant at best evil at worst. It isn't a zero sum game and there are other things to look at.

Manufacturing is what it is.. It generates great wealth and prosperity and brings people out of poverty.. But it's crap work that can't be paid well without screwing up the reason for it in the first place. You build a business where a warehouse of people make stuff so that you can sell it for less and sell more than you would making whatever yourself. There is a sweet spot where making stuff is no longer profitable but people far too full of themselves don't seem to get that. Manufacturing is horrible repetitive work that gives no opportunity for creativity. It's meant for those that would otherwise be fighting to keep from starving to death in the streets. America, and any other place with a figurative head on it's shoulder's would have no problem moving on from manufacturing to more creative fields while letting those who are currently fighting to keep from starving to death in the streets start to pull themselves up.

The stories I could tell....

If OSHA would require that imports be manufactured according to U.S. manufacturing laws, we could out compete them on price. Entire industries are lost on cost because of basic lack of concern for the health and safety of worker in China. In the stamping die industry, OSHA requires two operators and robotic removal tooling to create one part to insure that nobody gets injured in a stamping. Two buttons have to be pressed by seperate operators and then the part must be extracted robotically. Here is a video of a Chinese stamping operation. Can you imagine this happening in an American press operation? Not on your life...

Don't get me started on the hypocritical bureaucratic fubar clap trap like OSHA. The worst part is they get people who don't know any better to talk about them like they're a good thing. As someone who has had to deal with them on a regular basis I can say that the people that enforce their rules are idiots that couldn't make a living doing what they screw other people over for doing "improperly"

 

[jwag1973]

As a father of three in a single income family, clones are my option! Factor a mortgage, tuition, insurance, utilities, and groceries... the high end mods simply can't be justified.

I'd love a real "high end mod" but can't get past the price. Before I bought my "clones" I looked into the more expensive stuff and simply couldn't see spending a small fortune on a mechanical or rebuildable.

Even most clone haters will admit they perform very comparable to their original counterparts. So at a fraction of the price, I'm able to have several fine looking and performing mechanicals and rebuildables.

 

[wheelie]

I think everyone can agree China clones are not a good thing. It is not just in vape world. Tons of archery goods are now cloned in China. An Excalibur crossbow was sent to China and cloned and sent back as Maximus crossbow. Since Maximus has shut down. People made their choice and wanted the real deal instead, Most good archery broadhead's are cloned now. Some companies decided the profit is higher and they buy clones instead of continuing making them and sell them as their own. Then they get caught and go bankrupt when it is discovered what they were doing. Can't stop it but we can all make our own choice where we want to buy. I do not know anyone's financial situation and would not judge anyone who has to or wants something for cheap. Maybe that's all they can afford at the time. We all depend on food on the table to stay alive and bills to pay. As for the vape world, for a Mechanical Mod, China is a good starting point if you just want to test and see if you are going to like it or not. Why shell out a hundred or more if you are unsure if you will like it or not.

I get a little offended on forums with the "only buy US goods". I believe in buy North American goods is a better wording as we are all in the same boat. We even go to war with you's and send Troops, aircraft and ships. Besides where would the US be if Canada just stopped sending all our oil, and water down south just as an example. It is a two way street. CHEERS!

 

[K_Tech]

Don't get me started on the hypocritical bureaucratic fubar clap trap like OSHA. The worst part is they get people who don't know any better to talk about them like they're a good thing. As someone who has had to deal with them on a regular basis I can say that the people that enforce their rules are idiots that couldn't make a living doing what they screw other people over for doing "improperly"

OSHA's interest isn't safety in the workplace; its interest lies in creating new (and ofttimes ridiculous) rules and regulations through which it can continue filling its own coffers. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Rossum]

everything being said about china now was once said about Japan, Germany, and parts of south America.

Really? How many of them showed utter disregard for any sort of intellectual property rights, including, but not limited to, patents, trademarks, and copyrights? How many of them allowed businesses in their countries to blatantly falsify the country of origin on the goods produced there?

Manufacturing is what it is.. It generates great wealth and prosperity and brings people out of poverty..

Indeed, it does. In fact, it is one of the few ways that wealth is actually created. In the end, wealth can only be created by activities like mining, growing, building, manufacturing, or inventing something that's actually useful. Casinos for example do not create wealth, they consume it.

Don't get me started on the hypocritical bureaucratic fubar clap trap like OSHA.

This I agree with. If someone gets hurt on the job, hold his employer responsible, but do not tell the employer how to run his business to begin with.

 

[Rossum]

As a father of three in a single income family, clones are my option!

Sorry, but that's not true. There's plenty of affordable vape gear out there that works just fine that isn't a "clone" of anything else. We should be rewarding those companies that go to the trouble of designing their own affordable gear instead of the ones that make their living stealing other companies' designs.

 

[tj99959]

If an OEM costs $200, and a clone $20, it simply means to me that the OEM has priced himself out of business.

 

[jwag1973]

Sorry, but that's not true. There's plenty of affordable vape gear out there that works just fine that isn't a "clone" of anything else. We should be rewarding those companies that go to the trouble of designing their own affordable gear instead of the ones that make their living stealing other companies' designs.

Rossum, you're right...I suppose.

My Provari, MVP2, Sigelei ZMAX's are fine example's of that.

A mechanical mod is a complete different thing IMO. I can't beleive the "originals" are so ridiculously over priced. Not a single mod I've seen has the technology of even my Sigelei's, not to mention my Provari.

I understand the creator's of these original device's believe their stainless or brass tubes are worth hundreds of dollars,
I do not!

 

[crxess]

OSHA's interest isn't safety in the workplace; its interest lies in creating new (and ofttimes ridiculous) rules and regulations through which it can continue filling its own coffers. Nothing more, nothing less.

100% correct!
What started out as a means to protect workers has turned into a CASH COW.

Any OSHA REPORTABLE ACCIDENT can cost companies tens of thousands of dollars(PER Incident) - EVEN WHEN GUIDELINES ARE STRICTLY MAINTAINED.

I solidly Blame American Greed for American problems, not Foreign Countries for Reaping benefits from our recklessness.

 

[Flt Simulation]

I bought a cheap Chinese clone of the Kayfun Lite Plus for $39 on Ebay. This flooding POS has not worked properly from day-1 no matter how I wick it.
Got fed up with it and threw the damned thing away and ordered a real Kayfun from a 'InTaste' in Germany for $110

 

[Elendil]

For those bemoaning the lack of "American" made products need look no further than their local unions to assign blame. For as much as unions have done to create an equitable work environment in the early part of the 20th century, they have done just as much to destroy our economy and ability to be competitive in the last 20 years.

 

[B1sh0p]

If an OEM costs $200, and a clone $20, it simply means to me that the OEM has priced himself out of business.

Well said. It's the nature of capitalism.

 

[jwag1973]

I bought a cheap Chinese clone of the Kayfun Lite Plus for $39 on Ebay. This flooding POS has not worked properly from day-1 no matter how I wick it.
Got fed up with it and threw the damned thing away and ordered a real Kayfun from a 'InTaste' in Germany for $110

Sorry to hear about your bad luck there. My EHPro Kayfun lite plus is amazing! Good luck with the new one!

 

[Zealous]

My thoughts on this have changed slightly. I still would not buy a clone since I've not had good experiences with the ones I have bought. But I know others have so there's that.

HST I'd be pretty irritated if I paid $200 for an original mech & then the modder dropped his price on that mech after I bought it & made it "more affordable" to other people. That would mean that whenever I went to sell my mod I would get much less than what I would hope to get. And I would also feel like the modder screwed those who paid more for the mod because they paid more for the same quality new product than other customers.

So I could see a modder making arrangements for a clone to be made of his product so those that purchased HIS product would not feel like they got screwed (thus hurting his reputation) while at the same time providing a more reasonably priced product for others.

 

[Rossum]

HST I'd be pretty irritated if I paid $200 for an original mech & then the modder dropped his price on that mech after I bought it & made it "more affordable" to other people. That would mean that whenever I went to sell my mod I would get much less than what I would hope to get. And I would also feel like the modder screwed those who paid more for the mod because they paid more for the same quality new product than other customers.

That would be different than buying an iPhone (or really any other cell phone) how?

 

[k702]

Really? How many of them showed utter disregard for any sort of intellectual property rights, including, but not limited to, patents, trademarks, and copyrights? How many of them allowed businesses in their countries to blatantly falsify the country of origin on the goods produced there?

Japan and Germany were quite notorious for stealing/borrowing/using others' designs for quite a while. Also very notorious for cheap and unusable knock off goods. Each in their own time frame. it's actually kind of stunning the parallels between the three. The thing that's really unique about china is that they're doing all of that with a communist government. That and they have many more people than did japan or germany, so you can count on a few more products coming from them.

Indeed, it does. In fact, it is one of the few ways that wealth is actually created. In the end, wealth can only be created by activities like mining, growing, building, manufacturing, or inventing something that's actually useful. Casinos for example do not create wealth, they consume it.

That's not exactly true. You need to create something to create wealth, yeah, but there is such a thing as intellectual property and that doesn't just include inventions.. As for Casinos, the gaming floors may not "create wealth"(arguable, someone made the machines, the tables, the uniforms the dealers are wearing and the skimpy outfits the cocktail waitresses have on. Someone had to build the casino, put in carpet, do the plumbing... You get where I'm going.) but the restaurants, movie theaters, bowling alleys and so on do. If you add in the increase in property value because of a casino being around where people can go and enjoy all the amenities, and yeah, you get wealth creation.

Indeed manufacturing creates wealth for the dead poor.. For those that aren't dead poor, it raises the price of the goods manufactured (because those that aren't dead poor don't want to take the reduced wage a no talent no brain job like manufacturing offers. One spot on a conveyor belt putting screw b into slot a 3,000,000 times before lunch isn't something that deserves pensions and yearly raises.)