Chinese clones Rant / Discussion
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Morality and conscience go hand in hand, having one informs the other. No one needs to be told what is Morally sound, your conscience tells you when something doesn't sit well inside your Soul ... but often times mass conditioning, and the "tribal mindset" gets in the way of discerning what one's conscience feels, vs what mass conditioning has told and taught you.
As an "individual" your conscience informs you which way to go, while the conscience of another may point them in a different direction ... that is what it means to be an individual, and unique unto yourself. In reality it is not possible to create a singular creed, standard, or way that is suitable for all, even as the majority of this world continues to try ... and fail. We are not "Stepford people", although sometimes I have to wonder...
I find no wrong in one saying "I am ok with this", while the other says "No, this is not ok" ... Conflict comes when one tries to overpower and submit the other to their will, and way. Hatred is born when one feels justified in doing so.
It is very possible to honor what feels right and wrong to you, and to express that, while honoring those who feel differently than you, even though you do not agree ... This is true Morality, and Maturity.
To thy own self be true ... Judge not, lest you be Judged.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you there .. A man is absolutely DEFINED by his deeds, and actions, well beyond his word .. the old adage "Actions speak louder than words".
As far as the Moral fiber of Socrates, and MLK Jr, I have no clue if these were morally sound because I didn't know them personally, even as I am very familiar with their words, as they have been recorded and kept in history, ... and I personally neither revere or condemn either of them as a result ... or any historical figure for that matter.
The only beings who KNOW who Socrates and MLK Jr were, as far as morality is concerned, is Socrates, MLK Jr, those who lived intimately with them, and God. There have been many "wise words" spoken, and recorded throughout history, but wise words mean nothing without a wise deed to follow it and fulfill it.
On to something else that you mentioned in your comment, that I would like to touch on, you stated " I also don't think it is actually possible to make a being immoral by engaging in immoral activity."
I agree ... I do not believe that a man becomes immoral by committing an immoral deed per se ... In my belief, a man does become immoral when failing to accept responsibility for the deed he committed, and the consequences that come with. A man becomes immoral when he engages in self projection, deception, and denial. A man becomes immoral when he judges the morality of another, while having had committed immoral deeds himself.
Truth, and truth alone is redeeming... which is why it has been said "the Truth shall set you free".
And I don't believe it because it was said, I believe it because I have lived it.
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What do chicks become?
I keed, I keed.
Te amo, Nikkita, te amo. Plus your name makes me think of my favorite USA action show from the mid nineties.
I keed, I keed.
Te amo, Nikkita, te amo. Plus your name makes me think of my favorite USA action show from the mid nineties.
Am very glad to discuss this further with broader scope, but thinking this is not the place. To try and keep it within context of this thread, I am wondering who would be doing the defining as it seems somewhere between impossible and highly implausible to define anyone/anything by actions. While possible, and entirely likely, to define actions or acts and ascribe them to individuals who are observably engaged in those actions, hence accountability (and/or responsibility).
Therefore if someone (or some company) is observed as engaging in counterfeiting this action would not define who they are, but would be possible to hold them to this action for as long as they are observably engaged in it and/or do not deny they partook in it.
I feel this all begs the question of who determines what are wise words and wise deeds? Who determines a deed has been fulfilled? I do think we (collectively and individually) have answers to both these questions and that shows up as word(s) or thoughts (reason).
Even an individual can perform an action, think it righteous, and then an hour later, or perhaps a decade later rethink it and see it as irrational, immature. Based partly on own thinking, but also partly on collective thinking / societal norms.
I posited earlier in this thread that I believe we all think that counterfeiting of the deceptive kind (seller knows it is a fake, but buyer does not) would be thought by all here as immoral / wrong / bad action. Whereas non deceptive counterfeiting can be seen as righteous by seller, righteous by buyer and still immoral based on collective wisdom around theft and namely counterfeiting.
Based on Reason, I can't even go along with this, that a person becomes immoral by these things you describe (in words, no less). But using what you've written above, a person becomes immoral when failing to accept responsibility for the deed they committed. Yet, if they commit the deed, and see it as righteous but are neglecting still the self evident responsibility, then what? Example would be, person engages in counterfeiting, but views the deed thru prism of righteousness as completely okay, neglecting consequences their counterfeiting actions has on person impacted by the theft, and the legitimate markets which are impacted as well. It would seem the person is entirely moral in own eyes, and yet immoral by your definition. Further exacerbated by the denial from all those who participate in this market and see 'nothing wrong' with this sort of counterfeiting. Going as far as saying, it's not really counterfeiting, but this other thing. Let's call it cloning instead, and let's just ignore any responsibility we may have toward original designer. If original designer truly cares, they'll let us know, but as long as they do not or possibly cannot, then we are okay. We are behaving morally.
Truth = concept. Truth of who you are (and not how you are defined thru actions, judged by a split mind) is what sets Being free. But alas this is broader philosophical stuff that I'm always up for discussing, though not sure this is the thread for that discussion.
If it does apply to discussion of this thread, it would seem as simple as acknowledging that counterfeiting is counterfeiting whether it be the deceptive kind or the non-deceptive kind. The non-deceptive kind seems trickier on the surface as there are 2 parties who seem to ignore Truth and yet remain happy with outcome. Truth appears, fairly clearly, that product design has been copied in a way that looks a lot like theft and is being spun as perfectly okay, even if it is consequentially irresponsible, toward originator of the design. "Hey, I made a copy of product X. It is exactly like product X. Product X has quality, and I've copied that quality. Instead of buying product X at the asking price of original designer, buy my copy at a much lower price. I'll retain all the money, and not share any with designer of X. Because (ahem) that designer is greedy."
Judge not lest ye be judged.
Lol .. my username is in part derived from the femme fatale Nikita
... but it is also a play on my nickname Nikki, which is play on my name Nicole, the 6 is a 9, which in the end is a 6, and holds a deep spiritual meaning for those who belong to it ... it is also the day of my birth, and so I vibrate to the number 6 which is a 9, and in the end is a 6. Te amo Rocketpunk, Te amo .. the Truth always recognizes itself. ;-)
@Jman8, interesting ... what is clear to me is that you are a thinking being.
And you are right, this is not the appropriate thread, or forum for these kinds of discussions, although often times I wish it were ... As I already said, whatever sits well in your Soul. For whatever you think, believe, and do, you are responsible for, and who is anyone to question what belongs to you alone. ;-) Its 4am, and I really shouldn't be here right now
... I blame China for this 
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I agree with the op. I do not like clones, or what dealing with china has done to the US economy. Having said that, I do have plenty of stuff from China including a couple clones. M16 mech mod - clone, forge rda- clone, Vamo v5 - who knows, Sigeili v3 telescope - original, IGO's F,L, and W - original, and ProVari 2.5 - original, to name a few. I'm guilty of having a mixed bag of goodies, but I do wish I had more original stuff, and more native made stuff. There's a lot of import goods that have absolutely zero quality control. On the other hand, undoubtedly there is plenty of high quality products coming in.
Oh and yes I do realize my ProVari is made in USA. I just listed it because I think it may just be the only american made mod i own, with the exception of a couple diy boxes. I want a nice box next. I been eye balling the Billet Box. I don't think I'm digging the built in tank, as I like to change flavors a good bit. Maybe a REO sometime down the road as well.
Watching too much Shark tank and Dragons Den has made me realise. Alot of entrepeneurs from Us/Eu love to approach china to decrease manufacturing cost to increase profit margins. China isnt really to blame. Its the whole business world lol.
As long as american manufacturers can get cheaper labor in other countries there will be clones. Get used to it.
Alot of the China stuff is terrible quality.. bad threads, ext.. But there are good quality clones out there. I always like my authentic rebuildables the most. The vape is always better or at least more satisfying
I really dont like how the copies even have the exact logos and s/n's. kind of shi**y IMO
Clones, fine, whatever. Consider it a homage to the orginal.
However copying the logos and images of the originals is just wrong.
I guess you guys would have no problems carrying a fake Coach or Prada bag to go along with your fake Rolex. Hey, from a distance everyone thinks your cool.
If you can't afford the original then you buy what you can, I get that. But do you really need to try to pass off that you have the orignal when you really don't?
However copying the logos and images of the originals is just wrong.
I guess you guys would have no problems carrying a fake Coach or Prada bag to go along with your fake Rolex. Hey, from a distance everyone thinks your cool.
If you can't afford the original then you buy what you can, I get that. But do you really need to try to pass off that you have the orignal when you really don't?
I think that also goes both ways, for example, if someone is trying to turn their electronic cigarettes into status symbols, whether its real or a copy, or always concerned if the person next to them is using a clone or original, well, its a pretty fragile sense of self worth IMHO.
Just vape your equipment and leave it at that for godsake! If it works great, rave about how it works great, if it sucks, then rave about that too. Please just don't get in my face and tell me how superior your vape gear is, or how inferior mine is. And if you are going to front your fake nemesis to me being the real deal, good for you! I don't have a prize to give you because I couldn't care less if it was the original either! LOL
I'll continue to buy China clones, because they're what works for me and most importantly, what I can afford. If I found a reasonably priced U.S. made device would I buy it? Sure, but the majority of U.S. made products (i'm not just talking about vape gear) that I see are RIDICULOUSLY overpriced. I'm no no authority on economics or anything of that nature in the least but I do know this, if you want people to buy products, they need to be reasonably priced. It seems to me many of the U.S. manufacturers are pricing themselves out of business, rather than lowering their prices.
Have you looked at what it actually costs to employ people in the US? Have you looked at the various taxes, licenses, and other bureaucratic BS involved in running a business here? Not to mention the rate at which the earnings of a business are taxed? It is literally impossible for US manufacturers to compete with Chinese ones on price alone. I own a business that manufactures stuff (not vaping related) here in the US. The Chinese sell clones of my product for less than I can buy the parts to make the originals from here. You think I'm even going to try to compete with them on price? Could I outsource my manufacturing to China? Yes, I could, but I won't, because that would (among other things) lend credence to the clone sellers' shameless lies that the stuff they're selling is made in the same factories as my original product.
No I haven't, like I said in my post, I have little to no knowledge of business in general, I'm speaking only as a consumer. I also wasn't generalizing and saying that all companies are overpriced however, many are. A large percent of people in this economy (I'd wager) don't have the money to afford overpriced US made products, I mean sure there are some, there will always be some that will. In general you buy what you can afford, and for many (including me) that's Chinese made products. I'm not trying to hate on US companies but with prices the way they are, people like me are limited in what we can buy, that's just how it is.
Hmmmmmmm.....
Wonder where people get the energy to argue and debate back and forth over and over about the same thing week after week and month after month.
Funny thing is - My Mods - originals and clones - just sit in their holders awaiting my attention. No one generally sees any of them and no one really knows what I use, outside of ECF.
In fact I'd bet most people have no clue what any of you own or use or even care.
You all keep up the Good Fight.
I'm going to go enjoy some more good Vaping!
Wonder where people get the energy to argue and debate back and forth over and over about the same thing week after week and month after month.
Funny thing is - My Mods - originals and clones - just sit in their holders awaiting my attention. No one generally sees any of them and no one really knows what I use, outside of ECF.
In fact I'd bet most people have no clue what any of you own or use or even care.
You all keep up the Good Fight.
I'm going to go enjoy some more good Vaping!
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