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Hey all, glad I was directed here, the craftsmanship looks fantastic. I'm a newcomer to the world of bf and am in the process of getting a rda and hopefully one of these beauties. Would a 22mm rda work on this? I know some don't, so just checking. What's the best way to stay up to date on when you release them and what's the average price? Thanks all
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I know! You have quite the hoard already, so let the rest of us get a chance at em
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Well, judging by the price of the DNA30 in the Coop here vs the China DNA30, the China DNA30 are more expensive, so the price isn't the reason Cappy's using em. Also, I'll bet the DNA30 has at least chinese board or parts too, absolutely nowhere on Evolv's site does it say that the DNA are 'Made in the USA', or explains like Provari do which parts are made in the USA and which are imported. You'd think they'd mention it if it were true, so my assumption is that Evolv DNA30s are not made in the USA parts but are assembled in the USA.
For me, it's the about the workmanship and quality checking in the mod, and Cappy's workmanship, judging by the one I have, is just perfection. I'm pretty sure that every mod maker uses some chinese imported 510 connectors and/or switches, and/or buttons, and/or battery connectors/springs, or all the above. Not to mention that anyone who really wants an Evolv can probably just take this one out and replace with an Evolv later (or whatever newer version than 30).
Bottom line is if the maker will back em up and fix em if they break. Then, there's absolutely no difference to me at all. I'm happy
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I think Cappy's prices are very reasonable for the quality. Unless he raised them, the basic unregulated models run around $159-$169, which is the same range as Woodvil, Phidias and most wood mods w/ a few exceptions in either direction. He said he'd post pix of them here first, before they go up on the site.
The new batch he's making will probably sell out pretty fast, since he doesn't make many at a time. Fast, judging by past pre-advertised wood mod sales I've seen, for only 20 units total would be maybe 10-20 minutes? That's a guess, but a full batch of say Billet Boxes (I think that's about 20 units too) sell out in under 4 minutes, always leaving people upset they didn't get one. I think if you want one of this batch coming up, you should check back here often, since the batch is coming out very soon ...
Well, judging by the price of the DNA30 in the Coop here vs the China DNA30, the China DNA30 are more expensive, so the price isn't the reason Cappy's using em. Also, I'll bet the DNA30 has at least chinese board or parts too, absolutely nowhere on Evolv's site does it say that the DNA are 'Made in the USA', or explains like Provari do which parts are made in the USA and which are imported. You'd think they'd mention it if it were true, so my assumption is that Evolv DNA30s are not made in the USA parts but are assembled in the USA.
For me, it's the about the workmanship and quality checking in the mod, and Cappy's workmanship, judging by the one I have, is just perfection. I'm pretty sure that every mod maker uses some chinese imported 510 connectors and/or switches, and/or buttons, and/or battery connectors/springs, or all the above. Not to mention that anyone who really wants an Evolv can probably just take this one out and replace with an Evolv later (or whatever newer version than 30).
Bottom line is if the maker will back em up and fix em if they break. Then, there's absolutely no difference to me at all. I'm happy
It's unfortunate that I cannot join coop's and I certainly am not one of those guys who orders 500 or even 100 of the regulators from evolv for massive markup and resale. I will make my living honestly.
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As for American made, I've been in the electronics trade for 37 years now and I do remember a time when made in America electronics meant something. Those days are long past.
My car was made from parts all over the world and probably assembled in the USA. My Fender stratocaster electric guitar was assembled in Japan with parts made from who knows where, and I don't even wanna talk about Harley parts.... It's all meaningless.
I've read post after post after post of people's opinions about the regulators that are currently for sale and nothing I have read makes me believe on thing or another. Non-certified testing with un-calibrated equipment from non-professionals is just plain useless to me.
Read the manufacturers supplied specifications, usually provided via PDF file for free and compiled by actual EE's.
I have worked for Harris, Reptron, Honeywell, others and I have held Underwriters Laboratories certifications. I have taught advanced electronics troubleshooting for the military and I currently work for myself. Most of the time I smile and nod my head when dealing with posts on this thread about electronics, but man, why worry? If it breaks I will fix it!
If this isn't good enough, then go buy from my competitors.
Yo ho! Rant over...
Thanks again for putting forth info for me GG, you're a great shipmate! I hereby advance your rank to Ensign 4th class, night shift.
The Cruisers this batch have a base price of 159 as stated, but that is for plain Mahogany or Cherry. This batch every mod is made with the best exotic panel woods I have and many of the mods are made completely from exotic woods, so the prices are gonna jump.
The Cruisers will probably be for sale within a week and the regulated mods within the next couple weeks. I will post pics when they have some finish and you all can start pointing and saying "Mine!" then.
I currently make about 60 mods per year. Each batch now has about 3 or 4 months work time before they are released.
Expect the Regulated Cutlass and Destroyer mods to be anywhere from 250 to almost 300.
This batch the warranty is increasing from 3 months to 1 year. I am doing this because my failure rate for the last year has been zero.
I am also no longer considering melted wires and springs warranty repairs on 3.7v models. It's not my fault if you want to nuke your mod with a .001 ohm load.
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Just my .02 on regulators. I am just hoping that the new boards don't use PWM. The difference between PWM and flat power are night and day and the flat power boards provide a much more satisfying vape. My 2 VV Cutlass are some of my favorite mods because they hit hard and the battery life is outstanding with them (compaired to any single battery regulator I have tried) and I have no idea who makes them lol.
Mac - thank you very much for the caps
Cappy - No Evolv DNA
May pass on this round unless an unregulated BF catches my eye after the spoken for ones are gone....
I refuse to do clones and wouldn't buy a cheap copy of your wonderful work either !
Jake, while I understand and even agree with the ethics of standing by an original maker, I think original manufactures also should stand by their customer base. It's their responsibility to provide good customer service as well. If a manufacturer can't make their product available, can't respond to customer inquiries, then they are going to lose those customers. This is how the free market works.
Think of the auto manufacturers who became fat, lazy, and complacent. They ultimately had a wake up call when their sales tanked.
I agree with Cappy. The days of Made in the USA are gone. Perhaps this will ultimately lead to global capitalism. Who knows. I do know that spiritually, we are all one. We can't have it both ways, wanted more equality in international trade, then expecting to keep the best cookies for ourselves.
Wow. I didn't know this about you Cappy. I'm truly impressed. Seriously, I'm not just brown nosing!
I've e-mailed Evolv several times with questions since I started using DNA mods and have always received a reply within one business day. Everyone else who I know who's tried to contact them, even for repairs to boards damaged by fumble-fingered handling has reported them equally responsive.
Anyone who has worked extensively in the electronics industry knows that lead times on components can be a big problem when you're making something that turns out to be more popular than you expected. You can't just double or triple your output when demand warrants it if you can't get the components. Once you have components, getting boards assembled typically isn't a problem, but another limiting factor is how quickly you can get them through your programming and final testing phase. How many programming/testing/burn-in jstations do you have available? How long does it take to build another and train someone to run it?
I own 5 DNA mods -- four ready-made conventional mods and one bottom-feeder that I built (but didn't design) myself. I've not had a single failure of a DNA board. Cappy also states that there have been no failures of the (genuine) DNA mods he's built. For Cappy's sake, I sincerely hope the Chinese clone boards are as reliable as the originals, especially since he's now providing a one-year warranty.
Will I buy a mod from Cappy anyway? If there's one available where the wood speaks to me, yes. I don't have the skill or the equipment to make a nice wood mod myself. And if the China DNA doesn't perform like a real one or it fails, I'll rip it out and install a real one -- I have several spares and I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron.
I can provide a bit of insight here as I work for the fattest, laziest, most complacent auto manufacturer
We joke frequently that our products should say "Assembled in America of foreign and domestic components." I assemble the HVAC for instance. The module itself is molded and assembled in Mexico, the actuators are made in America though! I attach the ducts/beauty panels, both molded in America. The previous model year they were made in Canada. I also clip in the controller module, electronics made in China, housing molded in Mexico.
In my experience, the only differentiating factor of where something is made is the post production failure rate (after it leaves the production facility). The Mexican made HVAC modules have something like a 1% failure rate in our plant, the Chinese controller modules around 1.5%. This doesn't sound like a lot, but consider the fact American made component post production failure rate is measured in parts per billion.
For example, in the foundry our cylinder heads had an internal scrap rate of around 15%, post production failure rate was 400 parts per billion. The same cylinder head out of Mexico was 11% post production failure rate.
Basically it comes down to the manufacturer being willing to foot the bill to replace these components, wether American made or otherwise. Cappy has proven this with a warranty bump and by being an all around swell guy. He simply won't let us be dissatisfied
Ahoy all, good morning.
I see the discussion continues.
As far as I know, the Evolv dna board uses pwm too. I think I read it's a fast switch at 800hz so doesn't make the buzzing noise of say a vamo board.
I may give Evolv another try after the smoke settles from the DNA30 feeding frenzy. I delayed the batch for well over a month trying to get a definitive answer from them and I ran out of time and money waiting. I had to go with what was available. But I will say this, that with the recent advances I've been reading about, I may very well try a different board next batch even though I calls for a redesign so a bigger board will fit.
I am going to finish the Cruiser & Marauder models this week along with a single Cutlass with the Chinese DNA30 boards for testing. If it performs well for me and passes my own local layman testing then I will make the rest.
What more can be said on this topic?
Have a great day all. Time to get busy sanding... arrr
p.s., I'm starting to understand why other makers have dropped their regulated models........
I see the discussion continues.
As far as I know, the Evolv dna board uses pwm too. I think I read it's a fast switch at 800hz so doesn't make the buzzing noise of say a vamo board.
I may give Evolv another try after the smoke settles from the DNA30 feeding frenzy. I delayed the batch for well over a month trying to get a definitive answer from them and I ran out of time and money waiting. I had to go with what was available. But I will say this, that with the recent advances I've been reading about, I may very well try a different board next batch even though I calls for a redesign so a bigger board will fit.
I am going to finish the Cruiser & Marauder models this week along with a single Cutlass with the Chinese DNA30 boards for testing. If it performs well for me and passes my own local layman testing then I will make the rest.
What more can be said on this topic?
Have a great day all. Time to get busy sanding... arrr
p.s., I'm starting to understand why other makers have dropped their regulated models........
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I just shot Brandon a E-mail asking if a lot of DNA30's will be available for me in the next week or so, so I can finish my batch.
If they are not then I will proceed with making a clone version for myself to test.
Back to work, arrr
If they are not then I will proceed with making a clone version for myself to test.
Back to work, arrr
I've e-mailed Evolv several times with questions since I started using DNA mods and have always received a reply within one business day. Everyone else who I know who's tried to contact them, even for repairs to boards damaged by fumble-fingered handling has reported them equally responsive.
Anyone who has worked extensively in the electronics industry knows that lead times on components can be a big problem when you're making something that turns out to be more popular than you expected. You can't just double or triple your output when demand warrants it if you can't get the components. Once you have components, getting boards assembled typically isn't a problem, but another limiting factor is how quickly you can get them through your programming and final testing phase. How many programming/testing/burn-in jstations do you have available? How long does it take to build another and train someone to run it?
I own 5 DNA mods -- four ready-made conventional mods and one bottom-feeder that I built (but didn't design) myself. I've not had a single failure of a DNA board. Cappy also states that there have been no failures of the (genuine) DNA mods he's built. For Cappy's sake, I sincerely hope the Chinese clone boards are as reliable as the originals, especially since he's now providing a one-year warranty.
Will I buy a mod from Cappy anyway? If there's one available where the wood speaks to me, yes. I don't have the skill or the equipment to make a nice wood mod myself. And if the China DNA doesn't perform like a real one or it fails, I'll rip it out and install a real one -- I have several spares and I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron.
okay, okay. but the whole point of my post is that Cappy has had to go with Chinese regulators because Evolve did not respond to him....if their overwhelmed, they could just let him know that. and better yet, give an ETA.
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I can provide a bit of insight here as I work for the fattest, laziest, most complacent auto manufacturer
We joke frequently that our products should say "Assembled in America of foreign and domestic components." I assemble the HVAC for instance. The module itself is molded and assembled in Mexico, the actuators are made in America though! I attach the ducts/beauty panels, both molded in America. The previous model year they were made in Canada. I also clip in the controller module, electronics made in China, housing molded in Mexico.
In my experience, the only differentiating factor of where something is made is the post production failure rate (after it leaves the production facility). The Mexican made HVAC modules have something like a 1% failure rate in our plant, the Chinese controller modules around 1.5%. This doesn't sound like a lot, but consider the fact American made component post production failure rate is measured in parts per billion.
For example, in the foundry our cylinder heads had an internal scrap rate of around 15%, post production failure rate was 400 parts per billion. The same cylinder head out of Mexico was 11% post production failure rate.
Basically it comes down to the manufacturer being willing to foot the bill to replace these components, wether American made or otherwise. Cappy has proven this with a warranty bump and by being an all around swell guy. He simply won't let us be dissatisfied
My thoughts on autos was in regards to performance, etc. not parts.....anyway. I didn't mean to stir up a debate on that! lol. I've got enough to think about!
Well, I don't have any bottom feed DNA mods, so I won't know the difference, since I have nothing to compare it to except my other regulated mods. I figure it should work as well as my Provari...that shouldn't be asking a lot, given that Provari only goes to 15 watts. I figure people who had other DNA mods would have more to say about the functionality after they get theirs.
My price comparison for the DNA30 board was judging by the Coop price here for Evolv's DNA30 ($35 last I looked - check the SpreadSheet for the DNA30 coop on the first page to verify) vs Alibaba's posted Chinese DNA30 board here ($52-$60 each): 2014 Best Ezdna Mod Dna 30 Chip Evolv Dna Chip Dna 30w - Buy Dna 30w,Dna 30 Chip,Evolv Dna Chip Product on Alibaba.com (this obviously may not be the lowest price, but it gives you an idea)
Since Cappy would only buy what he can use, he'd be in the $60 per unit category. PLUS shipping from China, which runs a minimum of $35 per shipment... for 10 units, assuming they'd sell that few, that's $3.50 per unit additional for shipping, plus paypal fees, plus potential broken units that can't be returned.
Evolv's DNA30 would be 1/2 that price IF he were charged at the Coop price, so seems to me it would be cheaper to buy them from Evolv, who wouldn't charge $35 shipping either.
For the record, we had a big discussion a while ago on the Provari forum about boards, and even Provari, who are Made in the USA from mostly USA components that they make themselves said they had to buy some components from China because no one in the USA manufactured a certain part for their USA made boards (can't recall which part). It doesn't exist. That means that Evolv has to do the same thing.
Point here is, it's NOT cheaper to buy the Chinese DNA30, it's 2x more money if you check the link above.
But Cappy... if you buy Evolv, you'd have a way to return the defective units too... something you can't do with Chinese DNA30s, just in case someone had a problem with theirs.
**adding since no one has commented yet- I don't care about the DNA30 since that can be replaced. I look at that like the battery, it's a replaceable part. I'm buying your woodworking/design craftsmanship. It's like buying a flashlight, the regulator part is like the bulb, I don't buy flashlights by bulb brand.
However, the Evolv DNA30 may be cheaper in the long run (warranty repair/RMA, price, people like the idea better) if you can get them.
My price comparison for the DNA30 board was judging by the Coop price here for Evolv's DNA30 ($35 last I looked - check the SpreadSheet for the DNA30 coop on the first page to verify) vs Alibaba's posted Chinese DNA30 board here ($52-$60 each): 2014 Best Ezdna Mod Dna 30 Chip Evolv Dna Chip Dna 30w - Buy Dna 30w,Dna 30 Chip,Evolv Dna Chip Product on Alibaba.com (this obviously may not be the lowest price, but it gives you an idea)
Since Cappy would only buy what he can use, he'd be in the $60 per unit category. PLUS shipping from China, which runs a minimum of $35 per shipment... for 10 units, assuming they'd sell that few, that's $3.50 per unit additional for shipping, plus paypal fees, plus potential broken units that can't be returned.
Evolv's DNA30 would be 1/2 that price IF he were charged at the Coop price, so seems to me it would be cheaper to buy them from Evolv, who wouldn't charge $35 shipping either.
For the record, we had a big discussion a while ago on the Provari forum about boards, and even Provari, who are Made in the USA from mostly USA components that they make themselves said they had to buy some components from China because no one in the USA manufactured a certain part for their USA made boards (can't recall which part). It doesn't exist. That means that Evolv has to do the same thing.
Point here is, it's NOT cheaper to buy the Chinese DNA30, it's 2x more money if you check the link above.
But Cappy... if you buy Evolv, you'd have a way to return the defective units too... something you can't do with Chinese DNA30s, just in case someone had a problem with theirs.
**adding since no one has commented yet- I don't care about the DNA30 since that can be replaced. I look at that like the battery, it's a replaceable part. I'm buying your woodworking/design craftsmanship. It's like buying a flashlight, the regulator part is like the bulb, I don't buy flashlights by bulb brand.
However, the Evolv DNA30 may be cheaper in the long run (warranty repair/RMA, price, people like the idea better) if you can get them
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