Closest vaping experience to analogs

[Mike P]

salt juices allow for a higher concentration of nicotine without harsh flavor/throat hit. most of them contain benzoic acid which is a natural preservative and basically makes the nicotine hit you immediately. same kind of juice the juul uses, it makes the quitting process much easier. i've been using them for 9 months with no negative side effects, not a single cig and no desire at all for one. i save the sub ohming rda stuff for at home, its a nice treat.

the breeze 2 is awesome, i switched from the breeze 1 a few months ago and would never go back.

p.s. i forgot my breeze one day when leaving for work and ended up grabbing a juul cause i was curious and wanted a vape. totally not worth it, two of the pods leaked from the bottom and were unusable. its garbage, stay away.

 

[Izan]

Reading you it seems it might be worth it to jump straight into DIY if I can really get started with about 30 bucks and ... what should I buy to start making my own tobacco ejuices?

Thank you for your help.



I don't really understand these percentages, I know there is PG, VG, nicotine, flavours and sometimes molecules.

I also have heard that there is an eliquid from the brand El Toro called Guevara and it seems it tastes a lot like tobacco, any experience with it?

I might buy from that shop, since there are physical shops in Madrid too.

Any recommendations about what should I buy to get into DIY? I have bought pure VG in the past but that's about all the experience I have regarding DIY haha.

Gracias.

I hear el Toro has a good reputation, but I hate paying retail prices for juice.
What level of nicotine did/do you use/plan to use?
Do you have a digital gram scale? The chino should have one for about 10€. Makes mixing much easier.

The % I gave was the amount of flavour used in proportion to the other ingredients. PG/VG/Nic
1.7% is very low and means 10ml of concentrate can make 588ml of finished juice versus a 5% flavour that would only make 200ml.
FYI: many other flavours require 5%-10% flavour.

Are you close to Madrid?

Cheers
I

 

[ogvapes]

Reading you it seems it might be worth it to jump straight into DIY.....

I think that is way overkill. There's a learning curve to it and even once you do perfect it you have to let them steep for a couple of weeks and won't get to vape them right away. It's also dangerous to mess around with if you don't know what you're doing. To each his own though... Hope you find a setup that works for you.

 

[Caesar77]

salt juices allow for a higher concentration of nicotine without harsh flavor/throat hit. most of them contain benzoic acid which is a natural preservative and basically makes the nicotine hit you immediately. same kind of juice the juul uses, it makes the quitting process much easier. i've been using them for 9 months with no negative side effects, not a single cig and no desire at all for one. i save the sub ohming rda stuff for at home, its a nice treat.

the breeze 2 is awesome, i switched from the breeze 1 a few months ago and would never go back.

p.s. i forgot my breeze one day when leaving for work and ended up grabbing a juul cause i was curious and wanted a vape. totally not worth it, two of the pods leaked from the bottom and were unusable. its garbage, stay away.

Sounds pretty good to me, might get a Breeze 2 because it's also pretty cheap.

The only negative thing would be the coils, how much do they last and how much do they cost?

Thanks

I hear el Toro has a good reputation, but I hate paying retail prices for juice.
What level of nicotine did/do you use/plan to use?
Do you have a digital gram scale? The chino should have one for about 10€. Makes mixing much easier.

The % I gave was the amount of flavour used in proportion to the other ingredients. PG/VG/Nic
1.7% is very low and means 10ml of concentrate can make 588ml of finished juice versus a 5% flavour that would only make 200ml.
FYI: many other flavours require 5%-10% flavour.

Are you close to Madrid?

Cheers
I

I always thought eliquid prices are really high, specially when I found how cheap DIY is compared to buying regular ejuice bottles.

The first time I got into vaping I started at 6mg/ml since that's what they recommended me in the shop I bought my first mod when I told them I smoked a pack and half a day, I lowered it to 3mg, and I plan on starting with 6mg again, maybe a little higher would be better?

Yes I have a digital scale (from 5gr to 5kg), and yes, I live in Madrid.

 

[Caesar77]

My advice... Pick up some “Sweet Tobacco” from Dollarejuiceclub. It tastes just like cigarettes (which is why I don’t like it). You can add a custom nicotine request in the comments section at checkout. Stick with MTL devices for the meantime since they more closely resemble inhaling a cigarette. Get yourself either an iSub V tank with high resistance coils which you can later swap out for coils which allow for DL vaping, or the newer Triton tank. PM me if you want a bottle - I barely touched it - only 3mg’s in strength but you can at least taste it...

Thank you for your offer but I don't live in america, same deal with the dollar ejuice club, and it's a shame because their sweet tobacco eliquid looked interesting. And again I dont really want nor have the money to spend on factory coils, appreciate your recommendation but I want to stick with rebuildables

 

[Caesar77]

I think that is way overkill. There's a learning curve to it and even once you do perfect it you have to let them steep for a couple of weeks and won't get to vape them right away. It's also dangerous to mess around with if you don't know what you're doing. To each his own though... Hope you find a setup that works for you.

Yeah that's what I thought too but they seem to swear on DIY and I think it might be worth it to give it a shot because even if I miserably fail at it, the failure will be pretty cheap for me haha. About the stepping I could always buy a regular ejuice or those nicotine salts to vape while I wait for it to be ready.

 

[tara81]

I jumped into diy and found the flavor from premium ejuice just doesn't compare.

You can YouTube a diy ejuice tutorial easily like I did when I first got started. A scale will make it much easier. Some pipettes, a couple of syringes and/or scale, empty bottles, pg, vg, nicotine, gloves, safety glasses? ( I don't use nicotine ) then a good diy ejuice company you can order from.


Here is a website that gives you the amounts of flavouring, nicotine per batch amount you want to make , that you can use your scale or syringes to use :

http://..................../ sorry not sure if links work here.. google e-liquid-recipes

If you live in the U.K. I think chefs ejuice . uk is a decent site for buying ejuice flavor concentrations. I don't use tobacco flavoured ejuice but Brewmaster(?) mentioned stixx mix with just one flavor concentration, American virginia? , so buy 10-20 ml bottle for $3-5 and try it out that website will allow you to input 7% flavouring then will tell u how much u need in ml or grams so u can either use syringe or scale effectively, and u can input your nicotine base , and it will calculate how much to put in based on what nicotine percentage you want, regardless of the percentage you bought. It's very easy you can figure it out in ten minutes by clicking " create your own recipe"

Brewmaster also mentioned the doggystyle coil build he uses, and even though every YouTube tutorial said to use 2.5mm diameter, 2.0 mm diameter is better and easier to do! I wish I knew about that a little sooner myself, lol. You can check out steam engine.org for coil wrap amounts. Always check your coil resistance before firing! Watch a good tutorial to explain the cautions also, like legs touching base/chamber, coil touching base/chamber . The beauty of rebuilding is you can try any resistance u want to see what u enjoy best. 0.6- 1.8 ohms for mtl is the norm. Most do from 0.8 - 1.3 ohms I think.

Brewmaster gave u some great advise. I think when you order from fastech you can get your purchase 1-3 weeks quicker if you pay for shipping option. Here in Canada it was only $2 extra.

 

[Caesar77]

I jumped into diy and found the flavor from premium ejuice just doesn't compare.

You can YouTube a diy ejuice tutorial easily like I did when I first got started. A scale will make it much easier. Some pipettes, a couple of syringes and/or scale, empty bottles, pg, vg, nicotine, gloves, safety glasses? ( I don't use nicotine ) then a good diy ejuice company you can order from.


Here is a website that gives you the amounts of flavouring, nicotine per batch amount you want to make , that you can use your scale or syringes to use :

http://..................../ sorry not sure if links work here.. google e-liquid-recipes

If you live in the U.K. I think chefs ejuice . uk is a decent site for buying ejuice flavor concentrations. I don't use tobacco flavoured ejuice but Brewmaster(?) mentioned stixx mix with just one flavor concentration, American virginia? , so buy 10-20 ml bottle for $3-5 and try it out that website will allow you to input 7% flavouring then will tell u how much u need in ml or grams so u can either use syringe or scale effectively, and u can input your nicotine base , and it will calculate how much to put in based on what nicotine percentage you want, regardless of the percentage you bought. It's very easy you can figure it out in ten minutes by clicking " create your own recipe"

Brewmaster also mentioned the doggystyle coil build he uses, and even though every YouTube tutorial said to use 2.5mm diameter, 2.0 mm diameter is better and easier to do! I wish I knew about that a little sooner myself, lol. You can check out steam engine.org for coil wrap amounts. Always check your coil resistance before firing! Watch a good tutorial to explain the cautions also, like legs touching base/chamber, coil touching base/chamber . The beauty of rebuilding is you can try any resistance u want to see what u enjoy best. 0.6- 1.8 ohms for mtl is the norm. Most do from 0.8 - 1.3 ohms I think.

Brewmaster gave u some great advise. I think when you order from fastech you can get your purchase 1-3 weeks quicker if you pay for shipping option. Here in Canada it was only $2 extra.

Ok, DIY is more simple than I thought thanks for the advice and tips it seems there is a calculator for everything haha, I already knew about rebuilding tho, I also checked how much I would have to pay for fasttech to deliver the tank sooner and it's only 0,43$ lol, so I guess I'm buying the doggystyle clone.

Thank you.

 

[tara81]

I had to look at the chicken.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Reading you it seems it might be worth it to jump straight into DIY if I can really get started with about 30 bucks and if the flavor difference is so big compared to commercial tobacco eliquids. About the doggystyle tank you are recommending it seems only fasttech sells it and it's indeed very cheap but I have read customers saying that sometimes it takes months for them to deliver the product wich kinda sucks. What other MTL tank would you recommend besides this one? And what should I buy to start making my own tobacco ejuices?
Gracias.

I'll get back to you tonight on diy. But if you're going to do single flavor tobaccos like I do, you won't need much. I do straight VG, and that makes it even easier.

All you really need is flavoring, nic, VG (and/or PG) one 1ml syringe, one 5ml syringe, and bottles - some 10ml for small test batches, and 30 ml (I prefer chubby gorilla style). that's it. No scales, beakers, graduated cylinders, pipettes, gloves none of that stuff needed. I bought them, and they all sit in a drawer. Now that I know what I want, I don't even use the syringes any more. Just use a sharpie to mark how much nic to pour in there. This other stuff might come in handy if you're doing more complicated recipes with multiple flavors. But pretty much everything I make is 5-7% flavor, 12-14mg nic, and that's it. I recommend starting with single flavors and tank-mixing anyway, so you have a better idea of what each flavor is like on its own.

As far as tanks, it's hard for me to recommend anything else. I used Kayfuns, and liked them all (except Prime & 5)- especially the Mini V3. But they don't vape any better than the doggy, and have too many parts & orings, and have seepage & gurgling issues at times. The Ares is a very nice, easy to use tank, but just doesn't give me the smoker's throat hit I need. Berserker is too tight for me & has issues. Siren is kind of like the Ares. The Dwarv came closest to the flavor & TH of doggy, but again - more parts & orings to fiddle with, and wicking has to be done just right to prevent flooding & leaking because juice is above the deck. It's the only atty I ever had that leaked completely out on my mod overnight. My fault, didn't have wick pressed perfectly against the wicking hole, but I don't want to be required to be that precise. The doggy not only gives me the best vape, but is by far the simplest and most reliable I've used. Never a leak, never a gurgle, never a dry hit, never had to clear the airflow hole, even once. Never had to replace an oring or other part. It just works.

I don't know how FT shipping to Spain is, but my last order took 2 weeks to Atlanta area. Most often, it's about 3. Never waited 4 weeks. But that's on items they have in stock or "Ships Next Day"- if you order from them, and the item says something like "Ships in 7 Days," it can take longer.

 

[stara03]

Hi,
Sounds like you might have already made a decision as to which way you want to go, but I just had to mention what a fan I’ve become of the aspire breeze 2. In all honestly, I am brand new to vaping (a couple weeks) and have been searching for a device to replicate smoking. I started with the kangertech top Evod pen style kit. No good for me. Way too airy and light, doesn’t replicate a cigarette enough for me. So I decided I wanted a mini box mod but had to do my research, place an order, wait, etc. So in the meantime I picked up the breeze 2 from my local Vape shop. It has been amazing-exactly what I was hoping to find in my first Vape pen. I’m currently using salt nic at 25 mg and I can actually Vape to replace my cigarette and feel totally satisfied! This is what I was hoping vaping to quit smoking would be like. I’m still researching a box mod for me but I have to tell you, the breeze 2 has been just what I needed. I wanted to share my experience in the event that it might be helpful for you. Good luck!

 

[BrotherBob]

Ok, DIY is more simple than I thought thanks for the advice and tips it seems there is a calculator for everything haha, I already knew about rebuilding tho, I also checked how much I would have to pay for fasttech to deliver the tank sooner and it's only 0,43$ lol, so I guess I'm buying the doggystyle clone.

Might like to read:
Drip Vaping: Your Guide to Dripping e-Juice | Vape-Resource.com
http://spinfuel.com/art-drip-guide-vaping/
(7) Information Resources for Your First RBA | E-Cigarette Forum
Atomizer vs. Cartomizer vs. Clearomizer. The Ultimate Guide
If you have any reservations on above, feel free to reply.
As to DIY, not a good time to start while you are defining your equipment.
You may profit by reading the following:
Favorite tobacco flavoring discussion - Tobacco flavoring discussion only

 

[tara81]

I just want to point out that most mtl vaping recommends 50pg and 50 vg for more flavor and a throats hit to mimic smoking .

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Here's how I DIY, @Caesar77. I'm not sure what suppliers are available to you in Spain.

Flavoring: currently using Stixx Mixx NET, which you can buy from Nicotine River or direct from SM. Originally, I bought Hangsen and Inawera from Bull City Flavors and Nicotine River. Starting out, I wouldn't buy a larger size than 10ml, until you're sure it's a keeper, then I reordered 30m. Most cost around $3 per 10ml.

Nic, VG: I've bought these from Wizard Labs & Nicotine River. I use 48mg strength nic. You can save money by getting 60 or 100mg, but I thought it'd be safer in the event I made a mistake to use a weaker one. You can get PG or VG based nic, depending on the final mix you want. I buy 250ml bottle of Nic ($12) for every 500 ml bottle of VG ($4).

Syringes: You can get them anywhere. I think I got mine on my first diy order from Wizard Labs, but you can get at FastTech, or maybe even your local drugstore. I'd recommend a 3 ml, and a 5 ml. They're super cheap, so you can get extras if you want, but I never used more than one of each. You can get 3 of each size for about $1-$2.

Bottles: I'd get 10ml plastic bottles - maybe 10-12. You'll want to try new flavors in these, and don't want to make more than 10ml in case you don't like it. 30ml chubby gorilla style plastic bottles. You can use any type of bottle you want, of course, but these are easy to fill, shake, and use. And you can write on them with a sharpie- flavor, date, strength- and wipe off the writing when you empty & refill. A 5-pack of 30 ml on Fasttech costs $2.31, and a 5 pack of 10 ml costs $1.81.

You'll need a calculator to start. I use this one

Plug in what you want- this is a 30ml batch:

And it tells what you need:

So to make it easy, I put water in the syringe, measure to 8.75 ml, and put it in the bottle. Mark the line, and dump the water. Then just pour the nic in the bottle to the line. No need to measure again - just mark your other bottles the same height, if you want same nic strength.

I've tested my flavorings by dripping into the syringe, and found that there's about 50 drops per ml. So after putting nic to the line, I just put in about 100 drops of flavor. Then fill almost to the top with VG.

Shake, and done. Mark the bottle with your date, etc. shake every couple of days. And I've found you don't have to wait for steeping. Some brands are better after a week, some better after a month, but you'll be able to test each one every few days until you learn. Some tobaccos are actually better the first day or week than after a month.

So all in, to get started costs about $25 to get started. And if you figure 250ml + 500ml= 750ml, divide by 30, and you get about 25 bottles of juice for $16. That's $0.64 per bottle. If you figure a 30ml bottle of flavor at $10 makes about 15 bottles of 30ml juice, that'll add $0.67 to each bottle. So every 30ml bottle costs you $1.31 total. It's much better than what you buy, and you know what's in it.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I just want to point out that most mtl vaping recommends 50pg and 50 vg for more flavor and a throats hit to mimic smoking .

Oh, and Tara is right. Unless you're sensitive to PG, like me - it does increase throat hit. But you can use the calculator for that, and adjust as you like.

 

[Caesar77]

Sorry for the late response had a very complete week

I'll get back to you tonight on diy. But if you're going to do single flavor tobaccos like I do, you won't need much. I do straight VG, and that makes it even easier.

All you really need is flavoring, nic, VG (and/or PG) one 1ml syringe, one 5ml syringe, and bottles - some 10ml for small test batches, and 30 ml (I prefer chubby gorilla style). that's it. No scales, beakers, graduated cylinders, pipettes, gloves none of that stuff needed. I bought them, and they all sit in a drawer. Now that I know what I want, I don't even use the syringes any more. Just use a sharpie to mark how much nic to pour in there. This other stuff might come in handy if you're doing more complicated recipes with multiple flavors. But pretty much everything I make is 5-7% flavor, 12-14mg nic, and that's it. I recommend starting with single flavors and tank-mixing anyway, so you have a better idea of what each flavor is like on its own.

As far as tanks, it's hard for me to recommend anything else. I used Kayfuns, and liked them all (except Prime & 5)- especially the Mini V3. But they don't vape any better than the doggy, and have too many parts & orings, and have seepage & gurgling issues at times. The Ares is a very nice, easy to use tank, but just doesn't give me the smoker's throat hit I need. Berserker is too tight for me & has issues. Siren is kind of like the Ares. The Dwarv came closest to the flavor & TH of doggy, but again - more parts & orings to fiddle with, and wicking has to be done just right to prevent flooding & leaking because juice is above the deck. It's the only atty I ever had that leaked completely out on my mod overnight. My fault, didn't have wick pressed perfectly against the wicking hole, but I don't want to be required to be that precise. The doggy not only gives me the best vape, but is by far the simplest and most reliable I've used. Never a leak, never a gurgle, never a dry hit, never had to clear the airflow hole, even once. Never had to replace an oring or other part. It just works.

I don't know how FT shipping to Spain is, but my last order took 2 weeks to Atlanta area. Most often, it's about 3. Never waited 4 weeks. But that's on items they have in stock or "Ships Next Day"- if you order from them, and the item says something like "Ships in 7 Days," it can take longer.

Here's how I DIY, @Caesar77. I'm not sure what suppliers are available to you in Spain.
View attachment 757661
Flavoring: currently using Stixx Mixx NET, which you can buy from Nicotine River or direct from SM. Originally, I bought Hangsen and Inawera from Bull City Flavors and Nicotine River. Starting out, I wouldn't buy a larger size than 10ml, until you're sure it's a keeper, then I reordered 30m. Most cost around $3 per 10ml.

Nic, VG: I've bought these from Wizard Labs & Nicotine River. I use 48mg strength nic. You can save money by getting 60 or 100mg, but I thought it'd be safer in the event I made a mistake to use a weaker one. You can get PG or VG based nic, depending on the final mix you want. I buy 250ml bottle of Nic ($12) for every 500 ml bottle of VG ($4).

Syringes: You can get them anywhere. I think I got mine on my first diy order from Wizard Labs, but you can get at FastTech, or maybe even your local drugstore. I'd recommend a 3 ml, and a 5 ml. They're super cheap, so you can get extras if you want, but I never used more than one of each. You can get 3 of each size for about $1-$2.

Bottles: I'd get 10ml plastic bottles - maybe 10-12. You'll want to try new flavors in these, and don't want to make more than 10ml in case you don't like it. 30ml chubby gorilla style plastic bottles. You can use any type of bottle you want, of course, but these are easy to fill, shake, and use. And you can write on them with a sharpie- flavor, date, strength- and wipe off the writing when you empty & refill. A 5-pack of 30 ml on Fasttech costs $2.31, and a 5 pack of 10 ml costs $1.81.

You'll need a calculator to start. I use this one View attachment 757653
Plug in what you want- this is a 30ml batch:
View attachment 757655

And it tells what you need:
View attachment 757659

So to make it easy, I put water in the syringe, measure to 8.75 ml, and put it in the bottle. Mark the line, and dump the water. Then just pour the nic in the bottle to the line. No need to measure again - just mark your other bottles the same height, if you want same nic strength.

I've tested my flavorings by dripping into the syringe, and found that there's about 50 drops per ml. So after putting nic to the line, I just put in about 100 drops of flavor. Then fill almost to the top with VG.

Shake, and done. Mark the bottle with your date, etc. shake every couple of days. And I've found you don't have to wait for steeping. Some brands are better after a week, some better after a month, but you'll be able to test each one every few days until you learn. Some tobaccos are actually better the first day or week than after a month.

So all in, to get started costs about $25 to get started. And if you figure 250ml + 500ml= 750ml, divide by 30, and you get about 25 bottles of juice for $16. That's $0.64 per bottle. If you figure a 30ml bottle of flavor at $10 makes about 15 bottles of 30ml juice, that'll add $0.67 to each bottle. So every 30ml bottle costs you $1.31 total. It's much better than what you buy, and you know what's in it.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

Wow thanks a lot for the effort and information, I will probably reread your posts once I buy everything I need and see how it goes.

I just want to point out that most mtl vaping recommends 50pg and 50 vg for more flavor and a throats hit to mimic smoking .

I knew about PG giving more of a throat hit so I will take that in account even tho I think it kinda annoys my throat in a bad way.

Oh, and Tara is right. Unless you're sensitive to PG, like me - it does increase throat hit. But you can use the calculator for that, and adjust as you like.

Yes I think I'm sensitive to it too, one final question that I have is what kind of coils do you make for the doggystyle tank? Spaced or separate coils? What ohms shoulf I be aiming for?

Thanks again

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I do 316L ss, 2mm I'd, 7 wraps, about 0.68 ohm, slightly spaced. About 80 percent of coil above top of screw head. And you'll get plenty of practice if you're using net.
Feel free to PM if you need anything. Good luck!

 

[stols001]

If you are sensitive to PG, a judicious up to 10% distilled water can be used to thin your vape. I can't tolerate PG more than about 10% which usually makes up my flavorings, I was using VG for the rest but man it was gloopy, my vapes got hot. I was pleasantly surprised that DW not only made my temps go down, it improved flavor (I was not expecting that part at all).

You also have the option of switching to a PG variant, I use PEG400 and nicotine river sells it for super cheap. I WILL say do your research on it first ON YOUR OWN, I did mine and was satisfied it was safe enough for me, but anyone using not standard ingredients should look it up for themselves, I humbly opine.

It improved my flavor by a LOT I think it is somewhat a flavor carrier like PG, and I use about 40% now in my mixes etc., and it kind of brightened and crisped things up, honestly, also reduced temps and viscosity and etc., so I'm pleased to use it and etc. It's always an option to try at some point IF you want and I was happy and still seem to be alive and all. But if you like the idea start small (there's always the possibility to be sensitive to both) and research any safety issues. Etc.

Good luck,

Anna

 

[vapdivrr]

Brewdog has some good suggestions, I agree on the doggy as well . It's very inexpensive, nice and small, holds a good amount of juice, easy to build, produces good flavor, and provides a great TH. It has a perfect mtl replication of a cig , and for the price is hard to beat...another great tank is the kayfun, especially the prime and I also agree with NET juices. I haven't tried the styxx mixx yet, but heard they were good. I vape tobacco nets from heathers heavenly vapes which are very good , just not sure if they deliver over seas. So if you were to use either tanks, a good net juice, high nic (I use 24mg but only vape 2 to 3mls per day) which gives you that incredible throat hit (I personally like a juice that is 60 to 70vg.) A kanthal or SS coil 26 to 28g wire between 2.0 to 2.5 coil ID and wattages between 10 to 25 (that will have to be dialed in by you),you will obtain the closest vape to a cig imo.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Don't wanna hijack here...but Diver- I heard great things about HIV nets, but also heard most/all are sweetened. Which did you find the most straight ahead tobacco? I think that's what Caeser is looking for as well. I know you prefer somewhat sweetened, but thought you might have tried one from them that might fit? I'm dyi'ing, of course but have thought about trying a ready made net.