Cold maceration of tobacco

[Ian444]

Glad I could help Ian.

I have serious doubts about freezer maceration providing a flavorful extract but look forward to the results of your experiment. The guys in that other thread were after WTA more than flavor but we know you are a flavor man.

I have serious doubts too, but curiousity got the better of me, I'm thinking whatever gets extracted has to taste like something, and I want to know what it tastes like. If its bad, then what's left in the tobacco could then be macerated at room temp to get the flavor...I dunno...just seems like an experiment that needs to be done. The way they are talking in that thread, it sounds like the PGA is selective of what it extracts at different temps, which is something that never occurred to me before. I guess I see it as a possible tool to manipulate what we get from the tobacco. The worst that can happen is it turns out to be a total waste of time for extracting flavor So 3 or 4 gm of FVF tobacco and maybe 14ml of PGA went into the freezer this afternoon, then an hour later, when cold, I combined them.

 

[regal55]

I'm getting a lot of coke build up on my coils/wicks and an ashy flavor. The only thing I did different this tim was put a 1/2 inch strip of vanilla bean in the maceration. It dissolved and the entire maceration passed thru 2 micron filter paper. Is vanilla really that harmful?

Also could someone recommend a vendor or two for a good deal on PG, I'm going thru it fast and thought I remember reading there was a place that sells a gallon for the same price as a quart on amazon.

 

[Str8vision]

I'm getting a lot of coke build up on my coils/wicks and an ashy flavor. The only thing I did different this tim was put a 1/2 inch strip of vanilla bean in the maceration. It dissolved and the entire maceration passed thru 2 micron filter paper. Is vanilla really that harmful?

Also could someone recommend a vendor or two for a good deal on PG, I'm going thru it fast and thought I remember reading there was a place that sells a gallon for the same price as a quart on amazon.

The trick to pricing bulk PG/VG is to determine the "shipped" price not the product price. I can find $23 a gallon PG at several vendors but when you add $15-$23 for shipping the "bargain" quickly vanishes. Several vendors offer free shipping on orders over a certain $$ amount but exclude bulk PG/VG from the deal. The last time I bought a gallon of PG best deal I found was; Propylene Glycol - Food Grade USP - 1 Gallon - 99.9% Pure - Perfect Sweetness and Highest Purity: Lab Chemical Standards: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific with free shipping because my "total" order was over $35. Essential Depot will beat Amazon's deal by $2 a gallon but only if you buy 2 gallons; http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-211/Propylene-Glycol-2-Gallons/Detail Hopefully, someone else will chime in and guide us to better deals.

I've extracted vanilla beans using PG as the solvent (six month soak), but experienced no problems when using the extract. My tobacco macerations are still a bit gunky even when filtered at 2 microns which is why I want to experiment with sub-micron filtration.

 

[regal55]

The trick to pricing bulk PG/VG is to determine the "shipped" price not the product price. I can find $23 a gallon PG at several vendors but when you add $15-$23 for shipping the "bargain" quickly vanishes. Several vendors offer free shipping on orders over a certain $$ amount but exclude bulk PG/VG from the deal. The last time I bought a gallon of PG best deal I found was; Propylene Glycol - Food Grade USP - 1 Gallon - 99.9% Pure - Perfect Sweetness and Highest Purity: Lab Chemical Standards: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific with free shipping because my "total" order was over $35. Essential Depot will beat Amazon's deal by $2 a gallon but only if you buy 2 gallons; http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-211/Propylene-Glycol-2-Gallons/Detail Hopefully, someone else will chime in and guide us to better deals.

I've extracted vanilla beans using PG as the solvent (six month soak), but experienced no problems when using the extract. My tobacco macerations are still a bit gunky even when filtered at 2 microns which is why I want to experiment with sub-micron filtration.

Thanks for the info, my experience is you will need a little positive displacement pump to go sub-micron. Look at RO booster pumps, its going to turn into a large scale operation probablly.

 

[johni]

Wrong thread. DOH!

 

[Ian444]

Just a quick update on the freezer cold maceration with PGA as solvent. After 3 days I drained it, filtered, it is a golden color. Added 6 ml PG, and kept it warm around 50 C to evaporate the alcohol, ended up with 6.4ml of extract. It smelt nice at first but got a bit sickly when I was exposed to it for a while, not bad sickly, just a bit of "thats enough" sort of aroma. The roast chicken cooking in the oven smelt a lot better. Vaping it fresh tastes much the same, not flavorful so far, but there is something there, its sort of heavy but non-descript. Will try it again tomorrow briefly then let it steep. I put some PG back in the little jar with the drained tobacco, it is already getting color at room temp, will do a slow cooker maceration on it tomorrow. Quite interesting, the experiment so far supports the idea that PGA is selective with temp. I wonder if I've already pulled out the not so desirables (if that is even the case) and then what remains in the wet tobacco is the desirable flavors which the PG will now extract. Will post tomorrow on the outcome.

 

[Ian444]

The PG extracted flavor and color, like any other previous PG extraction I've done, the initial taste test seems normal. I am going to have to wait for these juices to steep to make any conclusions.

 

[johni]

Ian, thanks for being the guinea pig with freezer extraction. Sounds like my freezer will remain tobacco free.

I'm taking a break from extracting since I have a ton of really good stuff on hand. Been doing a lot of reading up on pipe tobacco blends lately and have my future extractions planned but am exercising a little self control to postpone buying anything for a couple of months.

A little quick math reveals that extracting an ounce of tobacco makes around a three month supply of juice given my juice consumption habits. I'm taking some time to help ensure purchased blends are worthy of the commitment. While my stash is very good, I want it to be all "favorites" and have a few on hand that I'm open to trading.

 

[farisjc]

Hey Johni, I'd love to see a list of your favorites

 

[johni]

Hey Johni, I'd love to see a list of your favorites

After trying many vendor NETs and many home extracted NETs, I can honestly say I've had very few that i didn't enjoy! Can't say the same for any other kind of juice.

Tastes change, new tobaccos come along, equipment keeps getting better, so nothing is static but here is a list of my current favorites.

Missouri Meerschaum Country Gentleman and the other three MM blends.
Cornell & Diehl Bayou Night and Billy Budd
Milan Tobacconists Centenary and Sunset Rum
Hearth & Home Louisiana Red, Virginia Spice, and Blending Perique

 

[regal55]

Can someone explain to me PGA. I assume its an acronym for Pure Grain Alcohol? My experience is slow low heat PG pulls out the flavor better than alcohol which has such a high affinity to chlorophyll. (Most of the job of curing tobacco is to break down the chlorophyll.)

 

[Bagazo]

Can someone explain to me PGA. I assume its an acronym for Pure Grain Alcohol?

Yes, Pure Grain Alcohol.

My experience is slow low heat PG pulls out the flavor better than alcohol which has such a high affinity to chlorophyll. (Most of the job of curing tobacco is to break down the chlorophyll.)

If this is true then there shouldn't be much chlorophyll to worry about. Also, a quick google search shows that chlorophyll is practically tasteless.

 

[Nick N]

Tomorrow is the 4 week mark for my Good Stuff Menthol RYO tobacco. I plan to use a Melitta #2 "Cup O Joe" cone filter holder with a standard coffee filter folded into a cone for stage one gravity filtration, followed by a folded Ahlstrom 2.5 micron paper for stage two.

Some of you may recall that this is the same stuff my Wife is currently smoking, I am curious if she will like it or not. She hasn't taken to vaping as I hoped, hopefully this will convince her to try again.

I do have 2 more jars of the same (100ml PG/0.5 oz tobacco) that I plan to filter at 8 weeks and 12 weeks. Wish me luck!

 

[boomerdude]

Not criticizing but I think you should have doubled the amount of tobacco to a full ounce in 100 mls. of PG. Just my

 

[Nick N]

Noted. The PG is fully covering the tobacco, even after it soaked it up. I used 6 ounce glass jars with rubber gaskets and a locking hinge. At the time I thought I had too much tobacco for 100ml.

 

[boomerdude]

When I first started extracting I used the Microwave method. After a few tasteless soups I read-up on things. Initial heat, cold extraction with 1 oz. of tobacco into 80 - 100 mls. of solvent seems to bring out the best extract for me. At least after 75+ extractions, it ain't broke, so I ain't fixin it. YMMV.

 

[Nick N]

100ml of PG resulted in 60ml after the initial folded cone coffee filter run. This stuff is basically cigarette tobacco and it soaked up quite a bit. I think I will get an Aeropress and use the included filters for stage one filtering going forward. That way I can get a good squeeze. I tasted it afterwards on my finger. Not bad. 2.5 micron filtering now...

 

[patioclark]

100ml of PG resulted in 60ml after the initial folded cone coffee filter run. This stuff is basically cigarette tobacco and it soaked up quite a bit. I think I will get an Aeropress and use the included filters for stage one filtering going forward. That way I can get a good squeeze. I tasted it afterwards on my finger. Not bad. 2.5 micron filtering now...

Although I don't have much experience with other filtering, I do like the Aeropress. In case you haven't seen the tips, make sure that you run some PG/VG around the rubber plunger before pressing. I actually use two stacked Aeropress filters in my stage one and then use a 2.5 micron in the Aeropress for the final filtering. Pretty good system and results.

 

[Nick N]

Good to know, thanks for the tip. Can't wait to get home and make some juice!

 

[boomerdude]

Definitely need the good squeeze part. That's the good stuff.

100ml of PG resulted in 60ml after the initial folded cone coffee filter run. This stuff is basically cigarette tobacco and it soaked up quite a bit. I think I will get an Aeropress and use the included filters for stage one filtering going forward. That way I can get a good squeeze. I tasted it afterwards on my finger. Not bad. 2.5 micron filtering now...