Cold maceration of tobacco

[billherbst]

Maurice,

Since I like to use some VG in my macerations, there's a real-world limit to how far down I can go in filtering pore size without the application of force. That's part of what I like about my French Press filtering. The plunger forces the liquid through the filter.

I think one micron may be too small for a PG/VG mix by gravity alone. I fear the maceration solvent would just sit in the filter and not come through, and I have no idea how to apply pressure with that filter, which is designed to work with water pressure forcing the liquid through the pleats.

But who knows? Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[MikeNice81]

Didn't see this comment before I posted as I have you set to "Ignore". This matter of fact statement is patently wrong Mr. "Chemical Engineer". Not trying to start a fight but you aren't adding anything to the conversation.

I hate to defend the guy, but he was talking about the water filter in the link. That is meant to be used with water being sent through at pressure. If you took the time to pull it apart and flatten it, it might work. In the factory configuration, not so much. I use a very similar filter on the well at home. It wouldn't do much of anything for n.e.t filtering unless you set up some kind of industrial pump system.

 

[billherbst]

I filter through circular (15 cm) lab filter paper pleated to a cone shape and dropped inside a funnel. Pint beer glasses are the vessel as they hold the funnel up out of the filtered liquid so you can see the extract dripping. The funnels are cheapies that come in a set of 2 from Walmart with one being 4 inches across the top, the other 5 1/4 inches.

The 2.5 micron lab paper I bought here: Ahlstrom 6010-1500 Qualitative Filter Paper, 2.5 Micron, Medium Flow, Grade 601, 15cm Diameter (Pack of 100): Science Lab Qualitative Filter Paper: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific. 6 micron paper: LabExact Grade CFP3 Qualitative Cellulose Filter Paper, Circle, 6µm Pore Size, 15cm Filter Diameter (Pack of 100): Science Lab Qualitative Filter Paper: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific. With the cost being less than 20 cents apiece, I don't mind pitching them when I'm done. Properly pleated, the filters hold about 30 ml of extract so I have to pour into them about three times per batch but that is it, gravity does the rest.

Thanks, John. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

For some reason, I didn't find the Ahlstrom filters when searching months ago. All I came up with were the Whatmans, which are pricey, and some other generic brand that didn't even specify pore size. I can't say whether I'll get a pack of the Ahlstrom 2.5 micron 12cm---as I say, I'm very happy with my current filtering set-up, but you never know. I might be seized by the whim of an irresistible momentary urge...

 

[MikeNice81]

 

[PaulBHC]

origami for geeks

 

[johni]

origami for geeks

Yep. I actually flute the paper to keep it from just pressing against the funnel and slowing flow. Like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caXpfoVqqXo

 

[Str8vision]

Just filtered the 144 hour PGA/PG Gurkha Master Select cigar maceration. It is a translucent light olive green color whereas my first two macerations using this cigar (a 115 hour cold PGA and a 96 hour PG heat assisted), both turned out shades of tan. Certainly looks like the additional soak time extracted something that the shorter duration runs missed. Room temperature might also be a major factor as I place soaking maceration in my "Florida room" and although not exposed to direct sunlight the daytime temperatures have reached 100F this past week. I never worried about ambient temperatures when processing cold PG macerations but I wonder if I should be when using a PGA dominant solvent. I'm new to using PGA and just not sure. Once the PGA has evaporated off I'll mix up sample a give it a whirl.

 

[PaulBHC]

I'll have to try that with my cone coffee filter.

 

[johni]

I'll have to try that with my cone coffee filter.

Some genius actually made a you tube video doing just that!

 

[MikeNice81]

Johni, do you filter through the 6 micron into a beer mug and then filter through the 2.5 micron into another mug. I was thinking of just putting one filter above the other with a bit of space between them. In theory the 10 micron (my setup) would filter directly into a 3 micron and then into the container. It would mean using one less bottle and save a step. I'm just not sure if the difference in flow rates would cause a problem.

 

[Nomoreash]

I finished my first ever extraction last week using Maple Street Pipe Tobacco and PG in a 4 week soak. This was mainly a test to see how the method worked as I already had an unopened tin from my smoking days and the results turned out far better than I thought possible.

The filtered extract was DARK which I thought instantly would be an atty killer so I went with what I believed would be a little weak in the final mix at 5% and to my surprise it's seeming pretty much spot on aside from the first day or so which is was a little harsh but has since leveled off, I usually wait before trying but I had no patience with this one. The final mix, 12mg, 50/50 PG/VG is a medium amber/gold color and over the course of 8 days using it in a bottom feeder with an A7 I'm getting right at 10ml before the wick needs to be changed.

I've researched the cold and heated process and I'm going to stick with cold for now. I'm very happy with the results of this first go but before I start another I'm wondering if anyone has compared wait times using this process, more or less? Is there a point where the extraction doesn't seem to work any longer?. Just wondering if I should do 4 weeks again or perhaps longer if i can get anything more out of it.

Also I see some using PGA. Would PGA be worth trying and help the extraction process and if so what percentage should I try with the PG?

 

[billherbst]

I finished my first ever extraction last week using Maple Street Pipe Tobacco and PG in a 4 week soak. This was mainly a test to see how the method worked as I already had an unopened tin from my smoking days and the results turned out far better than I thought possible.

The filtered extract was DARK which I thought instantly would be an atty killer so I went with what I believed would be a little weak in the final mix at 5% and to my surprise it's seeming pretty much spot on aside from the first day or so which is was a little harsh but has since leveled off, I usually wait before trying but I had no patience with this one. The final mix, 12mg, 50/50 PG/VG is a medium amber/gold color and over the course of 8 days using it in a bottom feeder with an A7 I'm getting right at 10ml before the wick needs to be changed.

I've researched the cold and heated process and I'm going to stick with cold for now. I'm very happy with the results of this first go but before I start another I'm wondering if anyone has compared wait times using this process, more or less? Is there a point where the extraction doesn't seem to work any longer?. Just wondering if I should do 4 weeks again or perhaps longer if i can get anything more out of it.

Also I see some using PGA. Would PGA be worth trying and help the extraction process and if so what percentage should I try with the PG?

nomo,

5%. Wow. I've never heard of anyone mixing a natural tobacco extract at that lean a percentage. Not saying that you can't or shouldn't---your palate is the final judge.

The typical range of mix percentages I use with my extracts varies from 15-30%, depending on type (pipe tobacco blends seem inherently to make stronger extract, so they get mixed closer to 15%, while cigars don't extract with as much flavor, so I mix them richer, closer to the high end percentage) and the particular tobacco used to make the extract. I've never mixed an NET juice from any homemade or retail extract (my own, my home extractor buddies, or MyVapeJuice retail extracts) at less than 13%. So, 5% is a big difference.

Simple-soak PG/VG macerations tend to be very dark in color---sometimes almost opaque---although the liquids made from them are often/usually lighter.

Maybe it's a difference in sensitivity to flavors, or just a personal preference thing. Whatever it is, I'm surprised and impressed that you mixed your extract at 5%. Seems like you're very happy with the results, so I'll just say Cool! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. LOL.

Your last two questions about using PGA, and if so, how much, have no pat answers. It's up to you.

 

[Nomoreash]

nomo,

5%. Wow. I've never heard of anyone mixing a natural tobacco extract at that lean a percentage. Not saying that you can't or shouldn't---your palate is the final judge.

The typical range of mix percentages I use with my extracts varies from 15-30%, depending on type (pipe tobacco blends seem inherently to make stronger extract, so they get mixed closer to 15%, while cigars don't extract with as much flavor, so I mix them richer, closer to the high end percentage) and the particular tobacco used to make the extract. I've never mixed an NET juice from any homemade or retail extract (my own, my home extractor buddies, or MyVapeJuice retail extracts) at less than 13%. So, 5% is a big difference.

Simple-soak PG/VG macerations tend to be very dark in color---sometimes almost opaque---although the liquids made from them are often/usually lighter.

Maybe it's a difference in sensitivity to flavors, or just a personal preference thing. Whatever it is, I'm surprised and impressed that you mixed your extract at 5%. Seems like you're very happy with the results, so I'll just say Cool! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. LOL.

Your last two questions about using PGA, and if so, how much, have no pat answers. It's up to you.

Thanks bill, 5% surprised me also. I went low initially due to the darkness of the extract and knew I could add more if needed. I've found over the years of doing DIY that my percentages in flavorings are low in comparison to what I see most people posting so it's likely personal preference but unless this mellows to much with further steeping I think I've hit the mark on this one for me.

 

[johni]

Johni, do you filter through the 6 micron into a beer mug and then filter through the 2.5 micron into another mug. I was thinking of just putting one filter above the other with a bit of space between them. In theory the 10 micron (my setup) would filter directly into a 3 micron and then into the container. It would mean using one less bottle and save a step. I'm just not sure if the difference in flow rates would cause a problem.

Mike, I use a separate pint glass for each filtration. I initially thought it would be cool to stack the filters but figured out that the difference in flow rate could be a problem (and a big mess!) plus you'd have to rig up some kind of tower. That's why I bought two sets of cheap funnels; just pleat a filter, toss it into the funnel and you're ready to go. Even though this method takes some time to complete, you don't have to watch it real closely. I do it with the television on and just check it every half hour or so.

 

[PaulBHC]

Nomoreash re: wait time, johni recommended 4 weeks based on his taste testing a sample every week. I do 3 weeks if it looks dark enough. My room temp this time of year is 80-85 and may speed things up but since I haven't waited 4 weeks before I don't know what I might be missing. My first batch was a RYO cig tobacco and that may be cut differently too, allowing different results.

 

[dhaiken]

I have an online acquaintance/friend I have been Beta Testing NET liquids for. He is mixing them at 2.5% and it is plenty flavorful for me.
I DIY very complex and powerful liquids w/TFA flavorings up to 20%, and his NET rivals mine for flavor.
I have no idea how he does it, but it is powerful.

nomo,

5%. Wow. I've never heard of anyone mixing a natural tobacco extract at that lean a percentage. Not saying that you can't or shouldn't---your palate is the final judge.

The typical range of mix percentages I use with my extracts varies from 15-30%, depending on type (pipe tobacco blends seem inherently to make stronger extract, so they get mixed closer to 15%, while cigars don't extract with as much flavor, so I mix them richer, closer to the high end percentage) and the particular tobacco used to make the extract. I've never mixed an NET juice from any homemade or retail extract (my own, my home extractor buddies, or MyVapeJuice retail extracts) at less than 13%. So, 5% is a big difference.

Simple-soak PG/VG macerations tend to be very dark in color---sometimes almost opaque---although the liquids made from them are often/usually lighter.

Maybe it's a difference in sensitivity to flavors, or just a personal preference thing. Whatever it is, I'm surprised and impressed that you mixed your extract at 5%. Seems like you're very happy with the results, so I'll just say Cool! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. LOL.

Your last two questions about using PGA, and if so, how much, have no pat answers. It's up to you.

 

[johni]

Room temp maceration of one ounce of tobacco in PG usually yields around 90 ml of extract for me. Mixed at 20%, the extract will make 450 ml of juice. If I vaped nothing but that juice, it would take me about 75 days to vape it all but if I smoked that one ounce of tobacco I doubt it would last a week. That is stretching the flavor in an ounce of tobacco a fair distance but still provides a very flavorful juice.

I've been lucky enough to sample home extracts from a number of people including some that have since gone pro. Two were mixing macerated extracts at around 10% initially, both use more in their retail juices now.

Really, whatever works for you is all that matters. For me, I'll take the "in your face" level of tobacco flavor.

 

[MikeNice81]

I mixed Boomer's Orlik at around 17%. I haven't tasted it yet, but the smell is just as strong as the bottle he sent me. It was mixed at 20%. Like everything else in vaping, it all depends on the end user.

Where do you guys get your PG? I was thinking of grabbing some on Amazon to save on shipping.

 

[johni]

I mixed Boomer's Orlik at around 17%. I haven't tasted it yet, but the smell is just as strong as the bottle he sent me. It was mixed at 20%. Like everything else in vaping, it all depends on the end user.

Where do you guys get your PG? I was thinking of grabbing some on Amazon to save on shipping.

I buy it here: http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-Propylene-Glycol/Categories They sell on Amazon also.

 

[Nomoreash]

Thanks all for the responses. I'll stick with 4 weeks on my next one using the same method. A family member is still firing them up rolling her own so I'm going to get some of her tobacco and give it a shot, who knows might be the thing that finally gets her to give vaping a real shot...fingers crossed, nothing I've tried before has.

MikeNice81:
Most times I get it from Wizzard Labs but I've used Amazon depending on what else I needed at the time and get the best price.