In a word YES...if a product is "intended" to be used in consumption of a finished tobacco product, they can regulate it. This is what the deeming is all about, their defining what a finished tobacco product is, and what components and accessories are covered. The present iteration is written very, very broadly.
FDA Common misconceptions about FDA regulations ( I hope CASAA will address at some point in the next few weeks)
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In a word YES...if a product is "intended" to be used in consumption of a finished tobacco product, they can regulate it. This is what the deeming is all about, their defining what a finished tobacco product is, and what components and accessories are covered. The present iteration is written very, very broadly.
well said.i agree with roger to the extent that his analysis is what the FDA will try to do.
now whether its legal or not is the $64 question.
they will try to grab as much control as possible with the regs they come up with.
with the election cycles being what they are congress would be hard pressed into
doing anything that will be perceived as harming the chillen'.
regards
mike
Not all of them should be staying out of the vaping business.
Gov. Dayton (D) single-handedly stopped MN's clean indoor (and outdoor) air act from being extended to cover vaping. We wouldn't want him to be neutral, would we?
It also appears as if Gov. Shumlin (D-VT) is going to single-handedly stop VT's proposed vaping tax.
There are also some very helpful NJ legislators (Ds too) who have given Christie's proposed tax a very hard time such as Assembly budget chair Schaer (a vaper, it is said).
We should eschew our enemies
But also be grateful for our friendsWe need all of those we can get.
in minnesota its back on the floor and at least one committee today.5-5-14
i haven't heard about the outcome yet.
regards
mike
Bwaaahaaahaaa at the bolded part!
So, any person using their brains instead of relying on sound bites, propaganda, misinformation and outright lies is engaging in "false conspiracy theories"? Because anybody not swallowing lies "could be harmful to the government"?
I wonder whether the Washington Times engages in "false conspiracy theories":
America is an oligarchy, not a democracy or republic, university study finds - Washington Times
(And thank you very much, Kent C., for catching what you did)
thanks for the link, was a nice read. showing there is too many people that are doldrums willing to go along w/ their day and just complain about how that's not fair and forget about it or not even look into whats happening around them. We need more people to start standing up, but as more and more impractical, unfair, and controlling regulations are passed, more eyes are opening at least I hope, but it appears so, it seems that way to me. I would hope it doesn't have to go as far as a revolution in the further future and that more good people can get into positions where they are actually working for the people not the other way around. If one or the other does not happen this country will crumble into something worse or similar to the communism/fascism we were so afraid of before where we have those on top with complete power. I want to see a great America with good people making decisions that are in the best interest of the people, getting everybody better educated as our education system seems to have some big issues. Even i dropped out and got my GED and now i am in a much higher position already than most of my graduate, college going friends because i strived and worked hard and when i was out of school i was learning/seeking out knowledge by my own means, seemingly more than these high school kids getting treated like 10 year olds (if i get the chance to expand my knowledge, and i may, i will grab it up. but it must be a valid place of learning that will increase my knowledge/ability). Not saying Im brilliant or anything along those lines as im just a regular person, we all have the ability to think and look at whats happening around us, some just blatantly choose to ignore it sadly. Many could be getting effected and they don't even know or care until they get the big slap in the face.. like iv said we have to stand up for EACHOTHER as so many people have no care for their fellow man/countrymen.
yes but what they meant was anything you are consuming with the tobacco product,
not what you are using to assist you using the finished tobacco product.
ie,cruella deville type cigarette holders as opposed to the little pouch you put into your mouth
containing the snus.
i think this interpretation of which means which is causing all the confusion.
i still agree with roger 100% as i believe the FDA will try to do it the way he says.
regards
mike
Usually when I make a post, I try to make it clear that it is just my opinion, not fact...
Having said that, hoping for more good people to get into positions of power is really a fairy tale at this point.
We have long since passed that point, maybe decades ago.
If you want to join the forces of government these days, with a will to do what is right and good...
You will probably find that no such world exists.
If you want to advance in the political world, to advance your pure and clean agenda of goodness, you will need help.
And that help always comes at the cost of your integrity.
You will have to make deals, or become an unsupported black sheep.
And when you make deals, you have cast aside your principals and your morals.
You then become one of them.
What you point out makes sense in the real world....the world of government regulation may or may not resemble the real world, it gets colored by what they want to accomplish...
I also agree with Roger's analysis, what worries me is the broad language the proposal is written in, if they push it to it's illogical extreme your "cruella deville type cigarette holders" would be covered if the length was changed after 2007....
The way the deeming is written leaves far too much open to their interpretation, which historically has not been in favor of vaping.
well the news is out.
Wider e-cigarette curbs in Minnesota survive key vote - TwinCities.com
i have sent emails to all the particulars involved.
only 2 of about 14 responded.they were just auto thanks for the email responses,not context specific.
no one else even bothered.i think we can safley see where this is going.
regards
mike
@badwolf91:
I like your posting, and it sounds very nice.
That does not happen though. Good people getting into positions where they work for the people and not the other way around. And staying that way. - I tend to agree with what DC2 said, above.
Power corrupts. And absolute power corrupts absolutely.
It happened in my country.
In the early 1980s, a small political party came into being. Young people, sensible people, people in jeans and sneakers, they spoke of peace, they spoke of personal freedom, they spoke of the environment. How we - the young people - cheered when they were voted into parliament. (In Germany, we have more than 2 political parties).
They rode their bicycles to work, they wanted no big government-sponsored car. They wore jeans to work. They asked all the right questions. They were a breath of fresh air.
Now, 30 years later, they ride in big, government-sponsored cars. While demanding higher and higher gasoline taxes for the common man.
They wear designer clothes. While calling for more and more taxation and higher and higher energy cost for those who cannot afford designer clothes as it is.
They even proposed a "Veggie Day" where all government cafeterias should serve only vegetarian food once a week, to all workers employed by the government. With their own cafeteria being exempt, of course. So that they would be able to dine on fine food while the rabble was served grub.
They have become the worst proponents of the Nanny State.
I have seen it happen. Power corrupts.
(You can call me disillusioned. Life does that to a person.)
/edit:
@skoony:
Oh yuck.So much for "working for the people", eh?
I like your posting, and it sounds very nice.
That does not happen though. Good people getting into positions where they work for the people and not the other way around. And staying that way. - I tend to agree with what DC2 said, above.
Power corrupts. And absolute power corrupts absolutely.
It happened in my country.
In the early 1980s, a small political party came into being. Young people, sensible people, people in jeans and sneakers, they spoke of peace, they spoke of personal freedom, they spoke of the environment. How we - the young people - cheered when they were voted into parliament. (In Germany, we have more than 2 political parties).
They rode their bicycles to work, they wanted no big government-sponsored car. They wore jeans to work. They asked all the right questions. They were a breath of fresh air.
Now, 30 years later, they ride in big, government-sponsored cars. While demanding higher and higher gasoline taxes for the common man.
They wear designer clothes. While calling for more and more taxation and higher and higher energy cost for those who cannot afford designer clothes as it is.
They even proposed a "Veggie Day" where all government cafeterias should serve only vegetarian food once a week, to all workers employed by the government. With their own cafeteria being exempt, of course. So that they would be able to dine on fine food while the rabble was served grub.
They have become the worst proponents of the Nanny State.
I have seen it happen. Power corrupts.
(You can call me disillusioned. Life does that to a person.)
/edit:
@skoony:
Oh yuck.So much for "working for the people", eh?
Like I said in another post - some views RELY on there not being any free speech about them, because if their true intentions were known, virtually no one, and esp. the 'low information voter' (their target group) would never follow them. So to stop or attempt to stop the truth about them, Sunstein either proposed and/or instituted 'squads' to infiltrate forums and chat rooms to spin the propaganda their way. For it to work, though, those people have got to appear to be somewhat on 'your side,' otherwise it doesn't work. They 'nudge' (a Sunstein concept) people in the 'right' (actually just the opposite) direction, rather than 'push,' as other similar groups (and a group by that name, btw) have done in the past.
Sunstein's books "Nudge" and "Conspiracy Theories and Other Dangerous Ideas" are worth the read but get them at the library
The 'Conspiracy Theory' book is the reason why any dissent from their views are hit with 'conspiracy' - you see it a lot out there and many places here as well. But again for them a 'conspiracy' is anything that deviates from their views, such as ours vs. the FDA deeming doc, etc.
As far as tobacco "flavors" are concerned I would imagine that tobacco absolute as well as Seedman's concentrates would be grandfathered. TA was (or is it still?) in short supply due to BT buying up the supplies....hmmmmmmm....writing on the wall?
Could one argue that since Congress did not include electronic cigarettes in the TCA decision (they were in the USA at the time of the decision)....and Sottera shut the door on treating electronic cigarettes as a drug/device, that the FDA is precluded?
Further, Section 201(rr)(4) of the Tobacco Control Act prohibits the marketing of “tobacco products” in combination with other FDA-regulated products. (nicotine gum / nicotine inhalers?) ~ unsure if this provision has changed since 2009
The gum and patches, etc. use Pharma grade nicotine......as does e-juice....under the FDA reasoning, why aren't those products being controlled by the TCA? Simply because they are not tobacco "products"......no more than Willow trees are aspirin.....
If we can knock out the tobacco "product" the FDA is dead in the water.........
Could one argue that since Congress did not include electronic cigarettes in the TCA decision (they were in the USA at the time of the decision)....and Sottera shut the door on treating electronic cigarettes as a drug/device, that the FDA is precluded?
Further, Section 201(rr)(4) of the Tobacco Control Act prohibits the marketing of “tobacco products” in combination with other FDA-regulated products. (nicotine gum / nicotine inhalers?) ~ unsure if this provision has changed since 2009
The gum and patches, etc. use Pharma grade nicotine......as does e-juice....under the FDA reasoning, why aren't those products being controlled by the TCA? Simply because they are not tobacco "products"......no more than Willow trees are aspirin.....
If we can knock out the tobacco "product" the FDA is dead in the water.........
indeed i have to agree, just optimistic that there could be hope rather than this whole world falling apart that some way good people could get into position to make decisions, but as noted in Germany, im sure that group would EVENTUALLY become the same. that's why we need to look at the person in general, and now that they have to be sponsored by tons of $$ by dems or reps. to even get a name out is sad. but what if every single person stood up and said no more? Not every politician is corrupt as noted above either, some are trying though they may still be a part of the chain. i know its never going to happen but the future will be interesting in the direction we go
It may not answer your question entirely, but you might want to check it out...
Nicotine Replacement Therapy Labels May Change
Not to worry yet. House bill doesn't extend the clean indoor air act, only Sen Sheran's bill does. Are you familiar with the area with Manketo, Sleepy Eye, New Ulm, N. Manketo, St. Peter, Rochester, etc? All of those towns except New Ulm (?) have passed indoor/outdoor vaping bans (including public parks etc.), I'm pretty sure. About 60-80 mi. SW of the Twin Cities.
Sheran is from Manketo and she parrots Clearway MN's talking points like an eager student who stumbles over them (I saw her do just that on the Twin Cities PBS interview, this is no exaggeration). She has another pal (co-sponsor) in the Sen, they wrote a horrid piece in the Star Trib a few weeks ago.
Dayton is standing firm according to this HuffPo article, dateline 2:30p today:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
huff-wires/20140505/apfn-us--e-cigarette-regulations-minnesota/?utm_hp_ref=arts&ir=arts
Thank goodness for Dayton
And Shumlin.
Not to worry yet. House bill doesn't extend the clean indoor air act, only Sen Sheran's bill does. Are you familiar with the area with Manketo, Sleepy Eye, New Ulm, N. Manketo, St. Peter, Rochester, etc? All of those towns except New Ulm (?) have passed indoor/outdoor vaping bans (including public parks etc.), I'm pretty sure. About 60-80 mi. SW of the Twin Cities.
Sheran is from Manketo and she parrots Clearway MN's talking points like an eager student who stumbles over them (I saw her do just that on the Twin Cities PBS interview, this is no exaggeration). She has another pal (co-sponsor) in the Sen, they wrote a horrid piece in the Star Trib a few weeks ago.
Dayton is standing firm according to this HuffPo article, dateline 2:30p today:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
huff-wires/20140505/apfn-us--e-cigarette-regulations-minnesota/?utm_hp_ref=arts&ir=arts
Thank goodness for Dayton
thanks roger,
dont forget duluth,mn has passed a ban too.duluth(pronounced Da-lute in a scandinavian accent)
regards
mike
I was thinking more like mixing a medical device with a "tobacco" product [nicotine] = (inhaler)
I was thinking more like mixing a medical device with a "tobacco" product [nicotine] = (inhaler)
Ms.jazz
Don't know if this will help but it was a good answer to my similar question....
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-if-nicotine-so-addictive-3.html#post13056609
well the news is out.
Wider e-cigarette curbs in Minnesota survive key vote - TwinCities.com
i have sent emails to all the particulars involved.
only 2 of about 14 responded.they were just auto thanks for the email responses,not context specific.
no one else even bothered.i think we can safley see where this is going.
regards
mike
"The vote to preserve wider use restrictions split more along geographic lines than party lines."
I'll report, you decide....
Affirmative (to amend to not include the inside ban to ecigs)
Anderson (R)
Fischbach (R)
Ingebrigtsen (R)
Limmer (R)
Pederson (R)
Saxhaug (DFL - DemFarmLabor progressive)
Stumpf (DFL)
Tomassoni (DFL)
Negative (to keep the indoor ban)
Chair Cohen (DFL)
Bonoff (DFL)
Champion (DFL)
Dibble (DFL)
Latz (DFL)
Lourey (DFL)
Miller (R)
Newman (R)
Pappas (DFL)
Sieben (DFL)
Wiger (DFL)
Other news from this committee today:
KAALtv.com - Medical ......... Passes MN Senate Finance Committee
MN legis. adjorns 5/19 which is a Mon: 2014 Legislative Session Calendar
So basically they have 9 business days to get this thing through.
I'm not quite sure what the next stop is for SF 2027, but HF 1931 (the simple minor sales/possession ban) is slow-poking its way thorough the house: MN HF1931 | 2013-2014 | 88th Legislature | LegiScan
I talked to Cap O'Rourke one day on the phone - he's the lobbyist hired by MN vapers. What a sharp guy, he knows his politics up and down. (And you wouldn't like his political views, Kent ;-) ... I'm sure he's on this one.
They'd have to ammend HF 1931 and get both bills passed in those 9 days or I guess they could pass HF 1931 as it is, and then ammend it in conf. and bring it back to the house? That's a lot of work to do in 9 days. Not impossible by any means.
I'm sure those people at ClearWay MN are having another "Open House" for the legislators and filling them full of wine and cheese. Or whatever it was they did last time. Your tax dollars at work (and I mean for ClearWay and their wine and cheese - as well as the legislature).
So basically they have 9 business days to get this thing through.
I'm not quite sure what the next stop is for SF 2027, but HF 1931 (the simple minor sales/possession ban) is slow-poking its way thorough the house: MN HF1931 | 2013-2014 | 88th Legislature | LegiScan
I talked to Cap O'Rourke one day on the phone - he's the lobbyist hired by MN vapers. What a sharp guy, he knows his politics up and down. (And you wouldn't like his political views, Kent ;-) ... I'm sure he's on this one.
They'd have to ammend HF 1931 and get both bills passed in those 9 days or I guess they could pass HF 1931 as it is, and then ammend it in conf. and bring it back to the house? That's a lot of work to do in 9 days. Not impossible by any means.
I'm sure those people at ClearWay MN are having another "Open House" for the legislators and filling them full of wine and cheese. Or whatever it was they did last time. Your tax dollars at work (and I mean for ClearWay and their wine and cheese - as well as the legislature).
I saw that a few days ago.. What I found interesting...
"The changes that FDA is allowing to these labels reflect the fact that although any nicotine-containing product is potentially addictive, decades of research and use have shown that NRT products sold OTC do not appear to have significant potential for abuse or dependence."
Warning label that's being proposed for e-cigs..
"This product contains nicotine derived from tobacco. Nicotine is an addictive chemical."
Haven't you heard..?
Some nicotine is more addictive than others...
Just one more example of where the FDA obviously already stands on all this...
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