Custard flavors bad for your health if vaped?
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Perhaps I can provide a helpful summary. Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl, and Acetoin are in a family of chemicals called diketones that are associated with popcorn lung. There is evidence that repeat, prolonged Diacetyl inhalation destroys airway tissue, but the first problem is that there haven't really been significant tests regarding the other two with inhalation. These diketones give a buttery taste to things and they are quite delicious indeed. From experience I can usually detect if Diacetyl is present at a significant level in a flavoring because it has a unique taste. A creamy custard flavoring is certainly going to have at least one of the three, as there are no real substitutes for it unless you want a sour cream, cream cheese, etc.
Another problem is that since the topic was made popular, lots of companies proclaimed they do not use Diacetyl, with no real testing or sometimes even knowledge of what it is. Even if they don't use Diacetyl, many liquid vendors use the other two substitutes, probably often unknowingly. Some companies that manufacture the flavorings themselves and support vaping, such as FlavourArt and Perfumer's Apprentice, know the content and disclose it to some extent (while attempting to not reveal their recipes or lose customers that are not in the vaping domain).
Another problem is that since the topic was made popular, lots of companies proclaimed they do not use Diacetyl, with no real testing or sometimes even knowledge of what it is. Even if they don't use Diacetyl, many liquid vendors use the other two substitutes, probably often unknowingly. Some companies that manufacture the flavorings themselves and support vaping, such as FlavourArt and Perfumer's Apprentice, know the content and disclose it to some extent (while attempting to not reveal their recipes or lose customers that are not in the vaping domain).
As my4jewels posted, this is worth a read if you are interested in the issues around "custard type" flavours - The Flavorist Workshop
It shouldn't have been, some custard flavors can be dangerous.
From the TPA site.
****** This flavor should only be used in Food and Cosmetic applications.
****** This flavor (no matter what company makes it) has inhalation risks if it contains either Acetoin or Acetyl Propionyl!
Okay, not surprisingly, Linda from PA just called me rather than emailed me. What a sweet lady to spend nearly 20 minutes out of her busy day to talk to me!! She said that nothing has changed. ALL custard flavors have either diacetyl or acetoin or acetyl propionyl. period. She was very appropriate by not naming any competitors, but she did say that since they are selling their flavors primarily for food flavors, they rationalize that the warning does not need to be present. Linda also said that no one, including herself knows how substantial the risk is by inhaling such small amounts of these chemicals, but the potential for risk is there, and she wants her customers to be well informed. She will be getting some more sensitive equipment for further testing and will update her site with new info as it becomes available.
I also want to mention that I also emailed Capella's with the exact same questions at the same time, and have not yet heard back from them. I will post it here when I do.
She also shared some interesting tips on using flavoring to vape. If it tastes perfumy or coughdroppy, there is too much flavor in your mix. Perfume and flavor are the same thing, it's only the carrier that distinguishes them.
Why don't we all shoot her an email and thank her for her honesty and thoughtfulness toward the vaping community!
I also want to mention that I also emailed Capella's with the exact same questions at the same time, and have not yet heard back from them. I will post it here when I do.
She also shared some interesting tips on using flavoring to vape. If it tastes perfumy or coughdroppy, there is too much flavor in your mix. Perfume and flavor are the same thing, it's only the carrier that distinguishes them.
Why don't we all shoot her an email and thank her for her honesty and thoughtfulness toward the vaping community!
I was just talking to some new members about that this morning. There are SEVERAL flavors that *may* have the capacity to (when mixed) react like diacetyl.
I wanted to put together a list for the diy info; listing all the flavors to watch out for.. It's NOT just butter and custard. If you browse through the TPA site, you'll see several that she has noted.
If anyone has the time, it would be a great list to have handy. Even though the flavoring are now marked suspicious- they may already be in our cabinets.
Sent from my pod
I wanted to put together a list for the diy info; listing all the flavors to watch out for.. It's NOT just butter and custard. If you browse through the TPA site, you'll see several that she has noted.
If anyone has the time, it would be a great list to have handy. Even though the flavoring are now marked suspicious- they may already be in our cabinets.
Sent from my pod
I am working at a turtle pace but will try to gather what i can.....
PS would be nice to get some kind of list as a sticky that could be added to not 500 pages to sift through????? Just a thought.....
PS would be nice to get some kind of list as a sticky that could be added to not 500 pages to sift through????? Just a thought.....
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Its been crazy here, sorry for such a late response!
For a consumer to spend $100.00 on testing a product to see if its safe is alot I know, thats why we had it tested as the idea of getting "that" flavor without diactyl seemed difficult at best.
If Capellas announces a change to their flavoring for Vanilla Custard, we would be happy to re-test. Until then, I have no reason to believe that there would be any different findings. As for their other flavor offerings, I have not tested anything else as the "custard" component was the suspicious item.
For a consumer to spend $100.00 on testing a product to see if its safe is alot I know, thats why we had it tested as the idea of getting "that" flavor without diactyl seemed difficult at best.
If Capellas announces a change to their flavoring for Vanilla Custard, we would be happy to re-test. Until then, I have no reason to believe that there would be any different findings. As for their other flavor offerings, I have not tested anything else as the "custard" component was the suspicious item.
Another thing here to note. PA has warnings on certain flavors. This is impossible to interpret just by the names that other vendors are using.
For example, on PA site waffle has a warning, but Belgian waffle is okay. Vanilla bean ice cream and French vanilla deluxe have warnings, but French vanilla is okay.
Because other names could be applied to flavors by other vendors, this list has to made specific to PA flavors, including a "buyer beware" about what vapers are using from other vendors. PA should not be villainized in any way, rather should be praised for their integrity about what is used in her flavors. It seems obvious to me that diacetyl or acetoin or acetyl propionyl ARE being used by other flavor vendors, and they have not been forthcoming about it.
IMHO, vapers are being misled by omission. And, even though diacetyl may not be used, acetoin or acetyl propionyl are being ignored. The fact that they are marketed as food flavors, there is a big loophole. I also don't want to point out Capella's as a "bad guy" here, there are plenty of others, including Lorann, who lots of folks here dismiss as "kids' stuff". I really don't want to create a panic about this, there is not enough info to go on yet to be sure how dangerous these chemicals are in small amounts, but why put ourselves in harm's way?
hankbizzo5, thanks for your willingness to make a list from PA, no rush, a turtle's pace is fine. I will work on a statement to present this whole matter concerning flavor ingredients, along with a link to PA's disclosure. When we are finished, we can combine them and work out any kinks. We can try to get a sticky.
BTW, I am not affiliated in any way with PA, but they will certainly be my "go to" vendor for flavors from this point on. I'm just a zealous noobie, perhaps with fresh eye on this matter, who doesn't want to trade one deadly habit for possibly a different one.
For example, on PA site waffle has a warning, but Belgian waffle is okay. Vanilla bean ice cream and French vanilla deluxe have warnings, but French vanilla is okay.
Because other names could be applied to flavors by other vendors, this list has to made specific to PA flavors, including a "buyer beware" about what vapers are using from other vendors. PA should not be villainized in any way, rather should be praised for their integrity about what is used in her flavors. It seems obvious to me that diacetyl or acetoin or acetyl propionyl ARE being used by other flavor vendors, and they have not been forthcoming about it.
IMHO, vapers are being misled by omission. And, even though diacetyl may not be used, acetoin or acetyl propionyl are being ignored. The fact that they are marketed as food flavors, there is a big loophole. I also don't want to point out Capella's as a "bad guy" here, there are plenty of others, including Lorann, who lots of folks here dismiss as "kids' stuff". I really don't want to create a panic about this, there is not enough info to go on yet to be sure how dangerous these chemicals are in small amounts, but why put ourselves in harm's way?
hankbizzo5, thanks for your willingness to make a list from PA, no rush, a turtle's pace is fine. I will work on a statement to present this whole matter concerning flavor ingredients, along with a link to PA's disclosure. When we are finished, we can combine them and work out any kinks. We can try to get a sticky.
BTW, I am not affiliated in any way with PA, but they will certainly be my "go to" vendor for flavors from this point on. I'm just a zealous noobie, perhaps with fresh eye on this matter, who doesn't want to trade one deadly habit for possibly a different one.
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The flavors with custard ingredients should be Butter, Vanilla Custard, French Vanilla Deluxe, Vanilla Bean Icecream and a trace amount is in Waffle.
This is the main reason I want to make my own juices, so that I can control what ingredients I vape. I only order from 1 vendor for my pre-made juices and I worry there is 'butter' flavoring in their "Caramel Cookie" or "Caramel Popcorn" flavors. Supposedly 'Butter" is now diactyl free but it still has Acetyl Propionyl and Acetoin in them! And those can turn into Diactyl
I know I've tried every kind of caramel flavoring and cookie flavoring on the market and my juices still lack the depth the vendor's juice has. I fear it's the 'Butter' flavoring I am missing in my DIY juices that would make them taste as excellent as my favorite bought juice.
I know I've tried every kind of caramel flavoring and cookie flavoring on the market and my juices still lack the depth the vendor's juice has. I fear it's the 'Butter' flavoring I am missing in my DIY juices that would make them taste as excellent as my favorite bought juice.
Crap! Vanilla custard and Waffles are my favorites! I've got some vanilla cupcake flavor.. gonna try that in my diy instead of the vanilla custard.
I'm pretty fond on vanilla custard too and I'm gonna vape it anyway.
Like Vanilla Cupcake even more though, take it to work everyday.
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This is the main reason I want to make my own juices, so that I can control what ingredients I vape. I only order from 1 vendor for my pre-made juices and I worry there is 'butter' flavoring in their "Caramel Cookie" or "Caramel Popcorn" flavors. Supposedly 'Butter" is now diactyl free but it still has Acetyl Propionyl and Acetoin in them! And those can turn into Diactyl
I know I've tried every kind of caramel flavoring and cookie flavoring on the market and my juices still lack the depth the vendor's juice has. I fear it's the 'Butter' flavoring I am missing in my DIY juices that would make them taste as excellent as my favorite bought juice.
If you're looking for buttery flavor, maybe a bit of butterscotch mixed in? PA has butterscotch that's okay.
I ordered Belgian waffle from PA when I saw the warning on regular waffle flavor.
That's good to know that vanilla cupcake is good. What mixture do you use? And, you know, there is no proof that the tiny percentages of these "bad" chemicals are dangerous when inhaled. It's just guesswork that it might be at this time. I just want to make sure that vapers are well informed. You're all grown up, entitled to make your own decisions, and I respect you for it. I'm just staring my diy "career", so I'm kinda glad I never tasted it! It seems to be a favorite flavor for lots of vapers.
I totally love vanilla custard in real life. I make it from scratch and add rice for a magnificent rice pudding which I can't get enough of. Not to mention grapenut pudding, which uses a vanilla custard base. Yummy.
The Vapor Room finally provided me with a good Vanilla Cupcake:
The Vapor Room.net | Vaporize Nicotine | E Cig Atomizers
I bought my flavoring from Capellas:
Vanilla Cupcake - e juice gourmet flavored coffee e liquid tea flavor e cigarette water flavoring Diet & Fitness Baking & Desserts
I haven't made my own yet because I am waiting on the delivery of some large bottles so I can dilute my nicotine.
The Vapor Room.net | Vaporize Nicotine | E Cig Atomizers
I bought my flavoring from Capellas:
Vanilla Cupcake - e juice gourmet flavored coffee e liquid tea flavor e cigarette water flavoring Diet & Fitness Baking & Desserts
I haven't made my own yet because I am waiting on the delivery of some large bottles so I can dilute my nicotine.
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