Dems propose ban on ecigs????

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Shopan

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I think they are begging the vaping community to have a massive protest right there at the Capitol building.

Practically inviting us to demonstrate.

Peaceably and flavorably.

This is a Great Way to Get involved With how Policies are made into Law. As this issue gets put into Play from the Local to a National Level We as Vapors' should be getting our stories to Those that Represent us. Now is the time to play offense and Get in front of it. Its easy to to tweet(Just change a CTA to your Mayor and such) Email the Heck out your state and Federal Reps and Local papers USE YOUR Voice because the fight is coming to us and the information is available to set the record straight. if all else fails Follow the Money and find someone to Run against the person that ignores Science.
I am all for Peaceful respectful Demonstration, But would rather nip the issue in the Bud, making sure I have done whatever I can...
 

MacTechVpr

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P.s. I love elipses and parenthesis...

Ditto!

Good luck.

:D

p.s. Of course FXNWS is sensationalist. They broadcast what the establishment does not wish us to hear or see… sometimes (maybe), eventually.

I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat. —Will Rogers
 
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Jan 19, 2014
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One other interesting observation on alignment - even though blue-state legislatures have proven to be much more activist in terms of banning interstate sales and imposing confiscatory taxes (or at least trying to), two of the four states with vaping=smoking statewide regulations are quite red indeed: ND and UT.

(I.e. they define vaping as smoking for purposes of their clean air acts, which may have huge current and future implications for outdoor vaping in places like public or state parks, as well as near public buildings, etc. Not to mention on public employees.)

It's also interesting to observe that a number of red-state A/Gs are urging their legislatures to do the same. If my memory serves me correctly, this list currently includes TN, KY, OK, and NE - typically on the grounds of protecting minors. This may be because st. A/G is often seen as a stepping stone towards Gov. or nat'l office. FL might be another interesting ex., although it's not exactly "red" (but Bondi is R).

Red-state gov.s also look towards higher office (US Sen, VP) and there are some interesting early adopters like OK's Fallin. Speaking of female red-state govs, keep your eye on Martinez (NM) & Brewer (AZ). Not that this is gender-based - watch Brownback (KS), Daugaard (SD), and maybe even Haslam (ID).
 

LDS714

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One other interesting observation on alignment - even though blue-state legislatures have proven to be much more activist in terms of banning interstate sales and imposing confiscatory taxes (or at least trying to), two of the four states with vaping=smoking statewide regulations are quite red indeed: ND and UT.

(I.e. they define vaping as smoking for purposes of their clean air acts, which may have huge current and future implications for outdoor vaping in places like public or state parks, as well as near public buildings, etc. Not to mention on public employees.)

It's also interesting to observe that a number of red-state A/Gs are urging their legislatures to do the same. If my memory serves me correctly, this list currently includes TN, KY, OK, and NE - typically on the grounds of protecting minors. This may be because st. A/G is often seen as a stepping stone towards Gov. or nat'l office. FL might be another interesting ex., although it's not exactly "red" (but Bondi is R).

Red-state gov.s also look towards higher office (US Sen, VP) and there are some interesting early adopters like OK's Fallin. Speaking of female red-state govs, keep your eye on Martinez (NM) & Brewer (AZ). Not that this is gender-based - watch Brownback (KS), Daugaard (SD), and maybe even Haslam (ID).
OK. So like I've been saying - look beyond the letter on the jersey. Look at the people and what their actions are saying, because we all know that their words aren't worth the bandwidth it takes to deliver them. If people start doing this on one particular issue, maybe it'll will open their eyes and they'll start voting as an informed populace rather than a drunken soccer hooligan.
 

JoanJ

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I would say look past the letter on their jersey but look a little farther. It is all about $$$. Follow the money interests and see who is donating to which politicians and I have a feeling that will pretty much tell you how they are likely to vote on any given issue. You can look up these things on opensecrets.org or opencongress.org and also check to see who the pharmaceutical and tobacco PACs are courting.

All that said, I do believe that a small bit of regulation needs to be done as far as underage consumption/possession but then again that opens the door enough for them to gain a foothold.
 
Jan 19, 2014
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I would say look past the letter on their jersey but look a little farther. It is all about $$$. Follow the money interests and see who is donating to which politicians and I have a feeling that will pretty much tell you how they are likely to vote on any given issue. You can look up these things on opensecrets.org or opencongress.org and also check to see who the pharmaceutical and tobacco PACs are courting.

I wouldn't discount the fact that some of these pols are just looking for votes (as opposed to campaign contributions from well-heeled interests. (Of those, some may be well-meaning ignoramuses.)

If they all were merely venal robots who were for sale to the highest bidder,, every jurisdiction in the country would have banned vaping by now. BP's wallet is comparable only to Big Finance (banks, etc.) and Big Defense (including national security, etc.).

By comparison BT's purse contains only chump change, let alone that of the rest of the PV industry.

***

All that said, I do believe that a small bit of regulation needs to be done as far as underage consumption/possession but then again that opens the door enough for them to gain a foothold.

Your point seems to be that minor sales bans - once passed into law - will be extended into more.

Actually I think vapers are safer once the "ink is dry" on a minor sales ban:

1) There will always be the risk that a proposed minor sales ban will "morph" into vaping = smoking (this is hardly theoretical, it's happened before). And then, as Clean Air Acts are extended to public parks, parking lots, roadways (even for vehicle occupants), sidewalks, and multi-unit buildings ... vapers will get sucked into the vortex. That's exactly what the ANTZ want: their short-term tactical objective is to maximize tobacco burning at the expense of vaping. The bigger your demon's horns are, the more torches and pitchforks you can mobilize.

2) Without minor sales bans, there's always a risk that the public will get terrified and demand either an outright ban or vaping = smoking legislation. This is why some ANTZ orgs may try to stop minor sales bans, even if they get nothing else in a legislative session. They know that the issue will always come back, and they'll get another shot at more than a minor sales ban.
 
Jan 19, 2014
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...

The fact that fox is advocating ecigs, is great, I welcome any support to our cause. That said, the fact that it is fox, makes me feel a bit dirty.

I feel that way about Steve Forbes and Jeff Stier (Sr. Fellow & Dir., Risk Analysis Division Nat'l Center For Public Policy Research).

I don't like most of what they say, or stand for.

Ditto BT.
 

wv2win

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This is one of those times that I find myself sliding towards the red again. Overall each party has good points.. and horrible points.

The fact that fox is advocating ecigs, is great, I welcome any support to our cause. That said, the fact that it is fox, makes me feel a bit dirty.

I would rather feel a little dirty (which I wouldn't) than feel incredibly ignorant by consuming the highly biased dredge spewed forth by MSNBC, one of the ANTZ's favorite media outlets.
 

Racehorse

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how the other major media outlets provide only negative reports on vaping

You must have selective ears and eyes.
Fox has run too many negative stories to count.

Another FOX horror show:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/447491-another-fox-horror-show.html

Fox News: Erika discusses the dangers of kids getting addicted to nicotine with e-cigs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JNga5EpmBE

Fox News: Hidden bacteria living in electronic cigarettes, Fox 23 Investigates:
Hidden bacteria living in electronic cigarettes, FOX23 investigates - FOX23 News

Fox 42 News: E-Cigarette Nicotine Poisoning Cases Going Up
E-Cigarette Nicotine Poisoning Cases Going Up - FOX 42: Omaha News, Sports and Weather; kptm.com |

Fox News: Dr. Seigal: let's make them available by perscription only
E-cigarettes -- let's make them available by prescription only | Fox News

Fox News: Dangerous new trend in electronic cigarettes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qEZYeObMlY

Fox News: New concerns over long-term risks of e-cigarettes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyVfTybSVdw

CDC: E-cigarettes could become gateway to nicotine for kids
Interviews doctor who says its addictive, delivery of a drug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y526gI37tz8

Fox News: Electronic Cigarettes May Pose Health Risk - would not recomend to any patients
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYLx5czl4Iw

Fox News: Are e-cigarettes any healthier for you?
Dr Seigal says "a doctor should be involved."
Not as bad as cigarettes but nicotine is very addictive, and kids are using them, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNt55dgxCT4
 

wv2win

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You must have selective ears and eyes.
Fox has run too many negative stories to count. ...............................

You would fit right in at MSNBC with this one-sided post. The CLEAR bottom-line: in comparison to all the other NATIONAL news organizations combined, Fox has aired significantly more positive reports/opinions on vaping than negative ones. Striving to earn their moniker, they also present opposing opinions, something many of their competitors are loath to do.
 

Sundodger

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You must have selective ears and eyes.
Fox has run too many negative stories to count.

Another FOX horror show:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/447491-another-fox-horror-show.html

Fox News: Erika discusses the dangers of kids getting addicted to nicotine with e-cigs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JNga5EpmBE

Fox News: Hidden bacteria living in electronic cigarettes, Fox 23 Investigates:
Hidden bacteria living in electronic cigarettes, FOX23 investigates - FOX23 News

Fox 42 News: E-Cigarette Nicotine Poisoning Cases Going Up
E-Cigarette Nicotine Poisoning Cases Going Up - FOX 42: Omaha News, Sports and Weather; kptm.com |

Fox News: Dr. Seigal: let's make them available by perscription only
E-cigarettes -- let's make them available by prescription only | Fox News

Fox News: Dangerous new trend in electronic cigarettes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qEZYeObMlY

Fox News: New concerns over long-term risks of e-cigarettes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyVfTybSVdw

CDC: E-cigarettes could become gateway to nicotine for kids
Interviews doctor who says its addictive, delivery of a drug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y526gI37tz8

Fox News: Electronic Cigarettes May Pose Health Risk - would not recomend to any patients
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYLx5czl4Iw

Fox News: Are e-cigarettes any healthier for you?
Dr Seigal says "a doctor should be involved."
Not as bad as cigarettes but nicotine is very addictive, and kids are using them, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNt55dgxCT4

Just to point out not all of these links are "FOX News". Some are Fox Network affiliates, you know the guys locally that have the weatherman that only gets it right when predicting "continued daylight until sundown".

And not all the links were just negative, at least some had both sides. To me if a story at least tries to tell both sides it's better than everything being negative in a story. Having said that, I don't like the negatives that are outright lies. But that is just something that we have to fight all around and we know that.
 

Nataani

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I would rather feel a little dirty (which I wouldn't) than feel incredibly ignorant by consuming the highly biased dredge spewed forth by MSNBC, one of the ANTZ's favorite media outlets.

Actually I dont get my news from any of the highly biased major media outlets. There is a wonderful thing called the internet, where you can find out what happened from multiple sources and decide for yourself what the truth is. I can make up my own mind about things, I dont nee media outlets telling me what to think.
 

Jman8

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Actually I dont get my news from any of the highly biased major media outlets. There is a wonderful thing called the internet, where you can find out what happened from multiple sources and decide for yourself what the truth is. I can make up my own mind about things, I dont nee media outlets telling me what to think.

I like to do the same thing. Of the multiple sources I've consulted, all of them show that only Democrat Senators are favoring a ban of eCigs on Capitol grounds. Based on the idea that we know nothing about what's in them, but we do know that FDA studied one on 2009 and found toxic chemicals including diethylene glycol, an ingredient commonly found in antifreeze. So, on the one hand, we know nothing about eCigs, but on the other hand, this analysis raises concerns regarding the safety of e-cigarettes, both for current users and for bystanders exposed to their vapor. And because we know nothing about them, while also knowing they absolutely are harmful, it is in best interest to make the political statement of banning them on Capitol grounds.

Because again, we Democrat Senators know nothing.
Except how to perpetuate the myth of harm for political gain.
 

JoanJ

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I would prefer to keep political affiliations out of this but am not sure that is possible for some. To me, a good horse is a good horse and doesn't matter the breed. I am still trying to totally understand the vaping bans. Is it the aroma produced by soe of the juices or what exactly? Fear of the unknown? Some just needing something to complain about? All of the above? None of the above? Personally, I find vapor fumes less bothersome than women wearing perfume, candle stores and the like.

Banning sales to minors... ban just the e devices or juice too? The devices are fairly haarmless if they are using zero nic but then again, how can that be easily proved on the spot?
 

Sundodger

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I like to do the same thing. Of the multiple sources I've consulted, all of them show that only Democrat Senators are favoring a ban of eCigs on Capitol grounds. Based on the idea that we know nothing about what's in them, but we do know that FDA studied one on 2009 and found toxic chemicals including diethylene glycol, an ingredient commonly found in antifreeze. So, on the one hand, we know nothing about eCigs, but on the other hand, this analysis raises concerns regarding the safety of e-cigarettes, both for current users and for bystanders exposed to their vapor. And because we know nothing about them, while also knowing they absolutely are harmful, it is in best interest to make the political statement of banning them on Capitol grounds.

Because again, we Democrat Senators know nothing.
Except how to perpetuate the myth of harm for political gain.

Except at our state level. Gary Bies (R) Door County is the one that introduced the "backpack tobacco" legislation. I tend to lean conservative, but I don't care if it's a D or R, if they suck, they suck. Gary Bies sucks and doesn't belong in any party to me.
 

sdennislee

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I am so conservative I make Pat Buchanan look like a liberal.

I vote neither R, D or I. I vote the Constitution. Meaning I vote for the politician that stands to support and defend the Constitution.

I fear many do not. I believe there are many who will scream from the highest mountain when a right they enjoy is in jeopardy but will not lift a finger to stop politicians from taking away the rights others enjoy, if they do not share the enjoyment of those rights.

I believe we must all fight for every right granted us. Once you allow politicians to take away one right the loss of other rights will surely follow.

Do you fight equally hard to protect the 1st amendment? What about the 2nd? I would be willing to bet there are some in here protesting the banning of ecigs or the shipping of nic juice to CA that fully support the abolishment of our 2nd amendment rights. You can't have it both ways.

I may not agree with what everyone has to say but I support your right to have your say.

How many times have we seen the feds trample the 10th amendment (my personal favorite)?

How many individuals only involvement in politics is to follow local legislation related to ecigs in their home town?

Thanks for letting me vent
 

Nataani

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To be perfectly honest there are some bans that I support.

1) Banning ecigs to minors. This imo is a no-brainer. It wont stop them, but anything to make it harder gets my approval. I started smoking cigarettes as an idiot thirteen year-old in Chile, where nobody even thought twice about selling me cigarettes or even cartons.

2) Banning ecig use in places marked as no smoking areas. This one I am on the fence with. If it is the only way that law makers can get their heads out of their rears for long enough to give venue owners a way to ban ecigs from their venue, fine. Is it perfect? No.

I would most like to see smoking and vaping clearly defined in two separate categories. Owners could then easily show that while smoking is prohibited, vaping is allowed. Or that both are prohibited, or none at all.

Nothing at all leaves ignorant ...... to believe they can vape anywhere they want. I am less concerned about the stealth vapers than the self entitled punks I have seen blowing clouds wherever they feel like it.

The reason I think this is so important is because whether you may not think the smell is bothering, or think for whatever misguided reason that second hand vapor is completely 100% harmless and nicotine-free, is completely immaterial. The fact of the matter is that by vaping around others, where they have no say in the matter, you are imposing your habit on them, without their say so. If I was a non vaper would I want, in any public area I visited, to face the possibility of sitting in someone elses clouds? Hell no.

At least if ecigs were given their own catagory of prohibition, people visiting public venues would clearly know what they are getting themselves into. Clear signs saying that while smoking is prohibited, vaping is allowed, has given that non vaper the choice to enter the establishment knowing full well that they are going to have to sit in vapor.

I would fully support the ban of ecigs in areas such as government buildings. And would fully support legislation forcing public venue owners to advertise the fact that vaping is allowed, with the assumption that if not advertised, it is prohibited.
 
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