Desperately need help ! Unvapable DIY juice... Tried everything I think in the past 6 months

[Philippe]

This is one of the reasons(besides being old), that I buy my pg/vg/nic already mixed.

Will do! Just don't know wich provider does that in Canada!

 

[Punk In Drublic]

DashVapes does not sell One Shots. The Broke Vaper and DIY ejuice does.

Coupon ELRECIPES gives you 10% off the Broke Vapor

Couple ELRecipes gives you 5% off DIY

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[Philippe]

Making an Unflavored batch at the Nicotine Level that you Normally vape is the FIRST THING Anyone should do when they receive New Nicotine Base.

You have to know that the Nicotine Base tastes OK before you start to do any Recipes'.

It's like if you bought a Bottle of Rut Gut Tequila. If the Tequila tastes like Gasoline, wouldn't every drink you make with it Taste Bad no matter how you Mixed it? Or what you used to Mix with?

If your Nicotine Base, PG and VG are OK and relatively Tasteless, then you are Good to Go. And if you Do a Recipe' and it tastes Harsh, you can Rule Out that it was coming from the Nicotine.

So then you Look at things like How Much Nicotine is actually in your Mix? Or How Much Flavoring you are using?

Note: It's Much Easier and Less Confusing to work with things when you work in mg/ml for Nicotine than it is to work with Nicotine as a Percentage of 1000.

Note 2: When you get New Nicotine Base, and want to Taste Test it by diluting it down to a Vapable mg/ml level, you Don't need to Mix it and then let it "Steep" or sit for awhile. Just Mix it down to a Vapable Level and Vape it.

"Steeping" is Only needed when Flavorings (or some Sweeteners) is used.

Note 3: Be sure to keep Detail and Accurate Notes on everything you Mix. Or if you Change a Recipe after it has "Steeped" by adding or subtracting something.

The Worst is when you get something that Tastes Great but you Can't remember if you Added more Strawberry and Less Peach? Or was it the Other way around?

You'll get this Straighten Out. And I predict that you will have some Nice Flavored e-Liquids in less than 2 Weeks.

These are definatly good advices, zoiDman!

However, I do test the nicotine right away when I receive it, without flavoring... and most of the time, it's harsh. Can't believe that DashVapes consistently would make bad batches while someone posted earlier that they have good stuff usually.

That tells me, may be I'm not shaking it properly/enough. May be putting the solution in hot water for 5-10 minutes then shake the hell out of it is not enough. May be the mixture has to sit there for a while to prevent hot spots of nicotine... I'll investigate further that way.

And trust me! I'm taking notes... bunch of them!

 

[Philippe]

I can positively say you entered something wrong, the calculator uses what you enter period. TFA juicy peach is known for being harsh, try it at 1-2%.

Thank you for your answer, Letitia!

About Peach (juicy) (TFA), I've been testing it from 4% to 8% without nicotine... no problem! Added Sweetener (sucralose/malthol) (TFA) at 1% to 2%... no problem without nicotine!

Also, in my original post, I did mention the exact ratio calculator would give me. And I've been using volume over weight to calculate the nicotine amount most of the time. So instead of "2.08grams", I'd add "1.65ml", wich I tested...

On my scale, 1.65ml of VG base nicotine (100mg) = 2.34grams

So, mesuring it by weight, like I did, I'd be 0.26 grams under what it would take to make 3mg/ml...

Here's an example of a recipe I made over and over again with different pourcentages :

Fuji apple (FA) : 4%
Peach (Juicy) (TFA) : 4%
Strawberry ripe (TFA) : 3%
Sweetener (Sucralose/Malthol) (TFA) : 1.5%

Asking to e-Liquid Recipes or liquidnicotinewholesalers calculator to get :
- 55 ml (I've tried bigger batches, like 320ml and even 500ml all in the trash now)
- at 3mg of nicotine
- 70% VG
- 30% PG
- using 100mg nicotine 100% VG

Result :
Nicotine 100 mg (100% VG) = 2.08g (tried both volume and mass)
PG dilutant = 10.26g
VG dilutant = 46.47g
Fuji apple = 2.2g
Peach = 2.2g
Strawberry ripe = 1.65g
Sweetener = 0.55g

 

[Letitia]

Thank you for your answer, Letitia!

About Peach (juicy) (TFA), I've been testing it from 4% to 8% without nicotine... no problem! Added Sweetener (sucralose/malthol) (TFA) at 1% to 2%... no problem without nicotine!

Also, in my original post, I did mention the exact ratio calculator would give me. And I've been using volume over weight to calculate the nicotine amount most of the time. So instead of "2.08grams", I'd add "1.65ml", wich I tested...

On my scale, 1.65ml of VG base nicotine (100mg) = 2.34grams

So, mesuring it by weight, like I did, I'd be 0.26 grams under what it would take to make 3mg/ml...

Have you checked the calibration on your scale?

 

[Philippe]

The hot spot actually makes sense. Shake that nic and when done, shake it again!!

As for purchasing new nic base – again our laws make this a challenge if purchasing outside the country. We do have many DIY vendors, however the majority require a sizable minimum purchase before you qualify for free shipping. Not a problem if bundled with other purchases, but just buying nic base on its own could be an expensive option.

I’ve only used Dashvapes nic base – I know it does not help with the OP’s case, but never had a problem with them.

Thank you Punk In Drublic for that very useful information.

You confirm me that you never had issue of harsh nicotine with DashVapes...

I definately think the hot spots could be the problem. Now, I feel like I shake my mixes but it might not be enough. Also tried to put the bottle in hot water for a while to facilitate the fusion of the components.

I'll definately try to shake until both my arms can't lift anything anymore and come back to you!

 

[zoiDman]

These are definatly good advices, zoiDman!

However, I do test the nicotine right away when I receive it, without flavoring... and most of the time, it's harsh. Can't believe that DashVapes consistently would make bad batches while someone posted earlier that they have good stuff usually.

That tells me, may be I'm not shaking it properly/enough. May be putting the solution in hot water for 5-10 minutes then shake the hell out of it is not enough. May be the mixture has to sit there for a while to prevent hot spots of nicotine... I'll investigate further that way.

And trust me! I'm taking notes... bunch of them!

If you are Starting off with Harsh Nicotine Base, it can be Really Hard to end up with a Smooth mix. Especially a Smooth Fruit Mix.

Sometimes harshness can be counteracted using a Sucralose based Sweetener like from the Flavor Apprentice (TFA).

I'd shy away from using Hot Water IIWY. Just give your bottle(s) a Good Shake for 10 Seconds or so. If 10 Seconds of shaking Doesn't do it, probably nothing will.

 

[Philippe]

Um I'm going to go with like the easiest, most likely approach and I'm afraid OP, gien that you are the common variable.... It's you.

I do not mean that in any MEAN way at all, but I feel you may have bitten off a bit more than you can chew. From what I'm seeing it's still not clear how much nic you actually HAVE (at least some of the time) and you are going WAY too fast.

First, get some one shots. There are some very nice ones out there. Start by mixing them at 10%, they will be less likely to be harsh, If you need to, bump up the flavoring if it's not enough (it may Totally be enough.) If you are sensitive to harshness most One shots are shake and vape but in my opinion many benefit from a few days steeping.

At this point you have two options: follow someone else's recipe (has its pros and cons) and START SMALL.

Or, you can test your flavors as single flavors and some HAVE to steep, to see which ones are giving you grief at too high a percentage. I did that to start out an it paid in dividends . If I have a new "weird" flavor, I still TOTALLY test it out on its own to figure out tis secrets (usually.)

I too have the propensity to over mix, but my fails tend to be less these days. DIY kind of builds on itself.

But the approach you are using now is not working, not even a little bit.

Good luck, I am confident you can get this sorted out but slow down! You really have to you are WASTING ingredients at this point.
Anan

Thank you stols001 for your good advices!

I gladly take the criticism about the fact I'm trying to go too fast. It's true that at some point, I got impatient and tried to make stuff without taking notes, making mistakes in mesurements, etc.

However, I decided to get organised 3 weeks ago : since then, I took notes on the 27 flavors I have, tested all of them seperately in 10ml batches without nicotine dry burning my coil and changing coton between every flavor test.

I've rated all of them with stars and added notes like "very strong flavor, could overpower others" ; "tastes like sun cream" ; "not sweet enough by it's own" ; "could go well with bakery flavor" ; etc.

I'm not giving up just yet! I will definately try some One shot bases like some other suggested!

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Thank you Punk In Drublic for that very useful information.

You confirm me that you never had issue of harsh nicotine with DashVapes...

I definately think the hot spots could be the problem. Now, I feel like I shake my mixes but it might not be enough. Also tried to put the bottle in hot water for a while to facilitate the fusion of the components.

I'll definately try to shake until both my arms can't lift anything anymore and come back to you!

It’s not just shaking your finished juice, but shaking your nicotine base prior to use is very important. I’ll let the experts comment on the hot water bath prior to use – not something I do.

Your above measurements do not seem right – but then again it is Saturday and my math skills are on a day of rest. But agree with @Letitia in you may need to calibrate your scale. And there is nothing wrong with using 2 different means of measuring to come up with your final product. But for troubleshooting it might be a wise choice to stick with one method. If you error in that method it will be easier to detect.

 

[Philippe]

Have you checked the calibration on your scale?

Well, I tried both mass and volume. My scale is brand new and a cigarette weight exactly 1g on it, so I guess it's calibrated properly!

 

[Letitia]

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Well, I tried both mass and volume. My scale is brand new and a cigarette weight exactly 1g on it, so I guess it's calibrated properly!

LOL….not necessarily. You need proper calibration weights. Did the scale come with one?

 

[zoiDman]

If you are Starting off with Harsh Nicotine Base, it can be Really Hard to end up with a Smooth mix. Especially a Smooth Fruit Mix.

Sometimes harshness can be counteracted using a Sucralose based Sweetener like from the Flavor Apprentice (TFA).

I'd shy away from using Hot Water IIWY. Just give your bottle(s) a Good Shake for 10 Seconds or so. If 10 Seconds of shaking Doesn't do it, probably nothing will.

BTW - When I used the term "Hot Spot" earlier, I should have been more clear.

A Hot Spot Nicotine Base could be something that a DIY-er is holding in their hand because the Retailer put a Very Highly Concentrated amount of Nicotine in your Bottle and then Didn't shake it after filling it up with the VG or PG or VG/PG.

It would be like getting a Can of Custom Colour Paint from a paint store where they Didn't shake it after adding the Tint.

So in that case, giving your Bottle a 10 Seconds what would bring Every Thing inside up to the Labeled mg/ml Nicotine level.

But it can Also be that the Retailer makes up 5 Gallons or so of say 100mg/ml (or whatever mg/ml) ahead of time (more likely). And then just Draws off whatever amount is needed to fill the Bottle size that you Ordered.

If the 5 Gallons wasn't adequately stirred/mixed, then your bottle may get a Higher Nicotine level because it was drawn from a Hot Spot.

In this case, Shaking the Bottle you have might Not do much. If any.

Anyway you slice it, Shaking the Nicotine Base Bottle, as with your Other Ingredients, Never Hurts. But it Isn't always a Cure.

Because "Hot Spots" may have Nothing to do with any of this. It just might be some Harsh Nicotine Base.

 

[Philippe]

Ok! so.. I replied most of your answers... Thanks very much for those!

Just forgot to explain the 100mg nicotine from DashVapes --> Bought it in december 2018... they still had some back then and it's long gone now!

Here are the things I'm going to try after all the suggestions :

1- Shake my nicotine before adding it in my mixes cause I wasn't (kind of hard since it's VG and it's in the fridge! Very thick...)
2- One Shot Solution
3- Calibrate my scale (the scale didn't come with a calibration weight, but I must say that I was calculating everything with seringes (volume) until 2 weeks ago when I bought a scale and I had the same problem)
4- Shake the final mix harder and longer

After that, I'll come back to you and share the results!

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Philippe]

LOL….not necessarily. You need proper calibration weights. Did the scale come with one?

Here are the things I'm going to try after all the suggestions :

1- Shake my nicotine before adding it in my mixes cause I wasn't (kind of hard since it's VG and it's in the fridge! Very thick...)
2- One Shot Solution
3- Calibrate my scale (the scale didn't come with a calibration weight, but I must say that I was calculating everything with seringes (volume) until 2 weeks ago when I bought a scale and I had the same problem)
4- Shake the final mix harder and longer

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Let your nic come to room temperature before the shake. Then shake it, and shake it some more. I strap mine to my cat, blow up a paper bag a pop it. Although sometimes I have trouble prying her off the ceiling to retrieve the bottle. If you adopt this method, make sure you wear a full thick leather suit for there is no way to tell which way the cat will go.

You can verify the calibration with coin currency. Look up their weight online.

And to add to your list, verify the strength of your nicotine base. Dashvapes has it marked on the bottle (top right)

 

[englishmick]

Here's a quick and dirty suggestion. Take a bottle of your juice that tastes harsh, and dilute it 50/50 with VG. That will halve the nic level. Try that. Dilute it again 50/50 with VG. If it really is the nic that's giving you the harshness you should reach a level of dilution where it isn't harsh any more.

Doesn't really solve your problem but it might give you some insight into the problem.

 

[Bluesdog]

I'm THAT CLOSE to just give up and go back to smoking! I'm not sure anyone will read this entirely but I really hope someone does and try to identify the problem(s) in my procedure.

When you start a vape Drag/Draw/Toke. Try Starting to inhale first before you hit the Fire button. It helps for harshness for me. Because hitting the fire button heats up the vape juice so fast it hits the throat hotter, which could easily be the harshness you may experiencing.

Over all it's a more enjoyable vaping experience starting the inhale before then hitting the fire button IMHO. Since the air coming in before hitting fire keeps the coils from heating up faster

 

[Philippe]

Right,

As promised, I tried the followings :

1, 4 & 5 - Shake the nicotine b4 using it and shake the final mix more / Check the nicotine strenght
RESULT : Somehow, no matter how hard I shake the nicotine and the final mix, even at 2.5% nicotine, the juice will still be harsh ; even without flavoring. I've tried 3 types of nicotine :
a- DashVapes nicotine base (65mg/ml @ 100% VG : diluted between 2mg and 4mg) = super harsh
b- DashVapes Salts nicotine base (65mg/ml @ 100% PG : diluted between 2mg and 4mg) = harsh
c- TBV (The Broke Vaper) nicotine base (6mg/ml @ 30PG/70VG : not diluted and diluted between 3mg and 4mg) = super harsh

2 - Use One shot flavoring
RESULT : Well, even tho it tastes good, juice is still harsh

3 - Calibrate my scale
RESULT : Of course, I did that before doing anything stated above! Don't think it was the problem since I've been using volume in the first 5 months I've DIYed

Here are other observations I made :

- As weird as it sounds, I noticed that the same mix will be "smooth" (smoother I should say) the first time I use it, then, 2 hours later, it will become unvapable, then the day after it'll be fine, then harsh, and so on... inconsistency in the harshness. Please, don't tell me to shake it more! I've been shaking it over and over. There is no way it's not shaked enough. Eventually, my lungs and throat will hurt and I will unsuccessfully try to clear them coughing. Really feels like I'm poisoning myself.

- I tried to dilute the TBV nicotine base (6mg/ml) to 3mg/ml and vaped it without flavoring and it's harsh. Please don't tell me my calculations are incorrect, they are. Far from a mathematician here but :

50% @ 6mg (30PG/70VG) + 50% @ 0mg (30PG/70VG) = 100% @3mg (30PG/70VG)

- If I dilute the juice under 2mg, harshness seems to disappear, but, I have no satisfaction at all and I'm constently in need of nicotine.

- Bought 2 bottles of Naked100 Maui Sun (my favorite e-juice out there)... One at 3mg and one at 6mg. Totally fine, except that the first few puffs of the 6 mg can be bit harsh for me. That's why I would usually mix them 50/50 to get 4.5mg wich is absolutely not harsh and very satisfying.

- Liquid Menthol (TFA) tends to be less harsh. I don't know if it's because that freeze sensation in the throat dissimulate the harshness but even at 4mg, it is, most of the time, vapable for me. It's completely illogical since I think flavoring has nothing to do with the harshness because the juice is unvapable while there is no flavoring in it.

Conclusion, I still don't understand why I'm getting that harshness. It seems like commercial e-juices, for the same nicotine concentration, are way smoother than DIY for me. I'm probably going to enjoy a few more bottles at CAD40$ each then quit vaping. Thanks for your help

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Can you post a screen grab of the calculator you are using that displays the amount of ingredients?