Desperately need help ! Unvapable DIY juice... Tried everything I think in the past 6 months

[Philippe]

Desperate here... I'll try to provide as many details as I can! English is not my first language... just saying.

Where to begin. I decided to switch to DIY e-juice for obvious reasons : vaping over 40 ml of juice a day is way too expensive!

So, 6 months ago, I decided to read about DIY juice and ordered my beginner kit : A scale, seringes, bottles, bunch of flavors, nicotine, VG and PG. All ordered from DashVapes.com

Wow.. hit a wall! Not that simple to mix the good stuff... After many experiments, I finally find one or 2 recipes that I like enough to say "that's it, these are good enough!"

To the point now! There comes batches of unvapable e-juice due to its harshness. UNVAPABLE. Take a puff, throat and lungs burn, can't possibly inhale it.

Then, I was using DashVapes nicotine (100mg) (VG) and was calculating recipes so that I'd have 3mg of nicotine in my mixes.

So I read a lot about harshness of e-juice. Three main reasons :

1- Expired or bad nicotine
(it was freshly made, no peppery smell or taste, very clear color, so that's not it. I keep it in the fridge and try to use it within a week)

2- Too high pourcentage of nicotine
(Vaping commercial e-juice at 4.5mg (mixing a 3mg and a 6mg bottle) of nicotine is just fine. I can take a 5 seconds huge puff, no problem. My ejuice was only 3mg)

3- Not steeped long enough
(I tried to steep a few batches "in a cool dark place" like they say, still harsh)

So then, I'm thinking... let's isolate every variables, right ?!

- Trying to vape PG alone : No problem, super smooth
- Trying to vape VG alone : No problem, super smooth
- Trying to vape different flavors I love like :

Peach (Juicy) (TFA)
Strawberry ripe (TFA)
Limonade (Flavorah)
Fuji apple (FA)
Sweetener (Sucralose/Malthol) (TFA)
etc.

Result : No problem, no harshness even if it tastes way too concentrated

- Trying to vape water! We never know... sometimes, there is some water left after I rince my bottles : No problem
- Trying to vape VG with different flavors I just mentioned : No problem, even if it doesn't taste much
- Trying to vape PG "..." : No problem, super smooth

OK! so let's try to add some nicotine now... Super harsh, UNVAPABLE.

I'm not good with mathematics but 1+1=4, and I can say for sure that nicotine is the source of that burning sensation every puff I take.

So now, you will say : "Probably you put too much nicotine in your juice and that your calculation isn't right!" Here's an example of a recipe I made over and over again with different pourcentages :

Fuji apple (FA) : 4%
Peach (Juicy) (TFA) : 4%
Strawberry ripe (TFA) : 3%
Sweetener (Sucralose/Malthol) (TFA) : 1.5%

Asking to e-Liquid Recipes or liquidnicotinewholesalers calculator to get :
- 55 ml (I've tried bigger batches, like 320ml and even 500ml all in the trash now)
- at 3mg of nicotine
- 70% VG
- 30% PG
- using 100mg nicotine 100% VG

Result :
Nicotine 100 mg (100% VG) = 2.08g (tried both volume and mass)
PG dilutant = 10.26g
VG dilutant = 46.47g
Fuji apple = 2.2g
Peach = 2.2g
Strawberry ripe = 1.65g
Sweetener = 0.55g

Do the exact mesurements with my scale of me seringes...

Unvapably harsh 9 times out of 10

Ok! So my problem is most likely the nicotine. So I try different types of nicotine, from different providers :

- VG Nicotine base (100mg) from DashVapes = Super harsh
- VG Nicotine base (65mg) from DashVapes = Super harsh
- PG Nicotine base (65mg) from DashVapes = Super harsh
- PG Salts Nicotine base (65mg) from DashVapes = Harsh and tastes nicotine
- VG Nicotine base (100mg) from a store near my home (the guy that sold it to me is a mixer, he sells his brand online and he told me he was using that exact nicotine for his mixes) = Not harsh but tastes like rubber, like really, really bad. Think he didn't want to share his knowledge
- VG Nicotine base (100mg) from E-cigsupply.ca = Super harsh

I'm probably crazy. It's all in my head. Still, can't vape that stuff. Any of the listed below. So far, 6 different nicotine types.

Now I'm thinking... "May be I'm too sensitive". Well, commercial juice is totally fine for me... I did ask 2 of my fellow vaping friends to try my juice, reaction : "Damn! It's very hard on the throat!"

May be it's my hardware... I'm using a Vapoo Drag mod with a Wotofo RTA Serpent tank with N80 fused clapton wire 26ga*3+36ga from geekvape and Coton Bacon Prime by Wick 'N Vape. Today, just bought a RDA from VandyVape. I'm not trying to show off in any way here, I'm just trying to be as precise as I can so that someone tells me what the problem is! Anyway, that's not my hardware because my 2 fellow vaper friends tried it in their own tank both different than mine and they felt that it was almost unvapable.

The most probable cause of my problem is now the way I mix my stuff and the way I shake and/or steep it. Most of the flavors I use are fruits. Many ppl on youtube say that most of fruit flavors are shake and vape. But here are the techniques I used so far to mix :

Method 1 : Add Flavors --> Add PG --> Shake --> Add Nicotine and VG --> Shake the hell out of it --> from no steeping to 2 weeks of steeping (cool dark place) --> vape

Method 2 : Add Flavors --> Add Nicotine --> Shake --> Add PG --> Shake --> Add VG --> shake the hell out of it --> from no steeping to 2 weeks of steeping (cool dark place) --> vape

Method 3 : Add Flavors --> Add PG --> Add Nicotine --> Strong shake --> Add VG --> Cap on, then bottle in hot water for 5 to 10 minutes --> Shake the hell out of it --> Breathe for 10 hours, cap off --> Cap on, dark place for at least 1 day --> vape

Method 4 : Add flavors --> Add PG --> Add VG --> Hot water 5 to 10 minutes or not --> Add nicotine --> Shake the hell out of it --> Breathe or not for 10 hours --> Steeping --> 1 day+ --> vape

I'm THAT CLOSE to just give up and go back to smoking! I'm not sure anyone will read this entirely but I really hope someone does and try to identify the problem(s) in my procedure. I used to enjoy vaping but DIY can be super frustrating and even more expensive than smoking!

 

[Izan]

May be it's my hardware... I'm using a Vapoo Drag mod with a Wotofo RTA Serpent tank with N80 fused clapton wire 26ga*3+36ga from geekvape and Coton Bacon Prime by Wick 'N Vape. Today, just bought a RDA from VandyVape.

Hi and welcome.
Please mix a small batch for the Drag/Serpent at 3mg/ml or 6mg/ml. (.3%/.6%)
The mixes you are making are 10 times stronger and IMO vastly over flavoured.

I believe you are confusing your units of measure. 100mg/ml nicotine is only a 10% solution. (Pure nicotine is ~999mg/ml. )

Salt based nicotine, PH corrected and buffered with additional additives is often used in low power, Juul type devices in the 50mg/ml range. IMO, 60mg/ml is going to step on your face in a fused clapton built Serpent on a drag at any power level above 10-15 watts.

Freebase nicotine is NOT PH neutral and is NOT cut with additives to make it more palatable. I began my vaping journey with 24mg/ml (2.4%) retail juice in an Ego-C in 2012. I now use 6mg/ml (.6%) in my ADV squonker at about 20 watts.

Just my
Cheers and Welcome.
I

 

[Lordron's_Drag]

I sub ohm 20mg freebase y'all are pansy's

 

[Philippe]

Holy cow! 10 times stronger.. that would mean around 30mg to 60mg juices. Damn.. that's almost dangerous.

About Salts nic, I decided to try it because some ppl say you can use it with a lower %, but I'll definately take your advice.

And just to be clear, because I'm not sure I get everything you said...

Question 1 : You're talking about ".3%"... How much "VG nicotine base (100mg)" would I put in 60ml of e-juice in order to get 3mg/ml ?

Question 2 : Or let's say : .3% of 100ml = 0.3ml of Nicotine base (100mg) in order to get 100ml of 3mg/ml... well I'm confused!

Quote : "100mg/ml nicotine is only a 10% solution" : I'm not sure I understand...

Question 3 : This would mean that all that time, entering these values in the calculator :

Amount to make : 60ml
Desired strength : 3mg
Desired PG : 30%
Desired VG : 70%
Nicotine strength : 100mg (this is wrong if I'm using "VG base nicotine 100mg"?)
VG-content of nicotine : 100%

 

[Lordron's_Drag]

Dude download vapetool assuming your on a Android I'm not sure if it's available on iPhone it has a juice calculator I'm not to sure about your calculations

 

[Lordron's_Drag]

I watch my buddy make my juice I'm pretty sure he's using almost 10mls of nic in my 60mld bottles

 

[Lordron's_Drag]

 

[Izan]

Holy cow! 10 times stronger.. that would mean around 30mg to 60mg juices. Damn.. that's almost dangerous.

And just to be clear, because I'm not sure I get everything you said...

Question 1 : You're talking about ".3%"... How much "VG nicotine base (100mg)" would I put in 60ml of e-juice in order to get 3mg/ml ?

1.8ml or about 36 drops or just under 2.25 grams of 100mg/ml VG base per batch.

Quote : "100mg/ml nicotine is only a 10% solution" : I'm not sure I understand...

Pure nicotine has a concentration is 1000mg/ml. Each ml of liquid would then contain 1000mg of nicotine.
100mg/ml nicotine base is 1/10 the strength of pure nicotine. It is described as a 10% solution and contains 100mg of nicotine per ml. (90% is VG or PG "filler" and 10% is actual nicotine)

100mg/ml nicotine can also be expressed as 10% nicotine.
Juul in the US contains approx 5% nicotine or 50mg/ml (B-salt based)

If you see juice advertised as 3, 6, 12, 18; they are actually 3mg/ml (.3%), 6mg/ml(.6%), 12mg/ml(1.2%) and 18mg/ml(1.8%) respectively.

HTH
I

 

[Philippe]

Man.. How could e-Liquid recipe's calculator be so wrong?

it was telling me to add 2.08grams in 55ml in order to make 3mg/ml

and you show me that 2.23grams are needed in 100ml in order to make 3mg/ml

 

[Philippe]

Ok.. anyway.. I'll come back tomorrow. I'm going to fall asleep on my keyboard. I will download a proper calculator and see if it helps

 

[Izan]

Man.. How could e-Liquid recipe's calculator be so wrong?

it was telling me to add 2.08grams in 55ml in order to make 3mg/ml

and you show me that 2.23grams are needed in 100ml in order to make 3mg/ml

That error is excusable. I use 1.24 grams as the weight of my 100%Vg 100mg/ml nicotine base.

Cheers
I
ETA: Sweet dreams.
Hasta mañana.

 

[Philippe]

After verification, the amount of nicotine I’ve put in m’y juice was ok.

I usually put 1.65 ml of VG nicotine base (100mg) for 55ml... that should give 3mg/ml more or less.. may be between 2.6 and 3.4 due to the seringe inaccuracy.

So that doesn’t explain the harshness. I’ve juste made an other batch of 55ml at .3% without flavoring, shaked it well and stored it in a cool dark place...

I’ll try it tonight but I know it won’t be different than the gallon I scrapped in the passed few months

 

[rosesense]

Philippe, I would suggest you try mixing a small batch with just flavorings, no nic to test harshness. I apologize if you already tried this and I missed it. Then compare to the batch you just made with nic and no flavorings.

On another note, I am super sensitive to some mixes of premade that I have bought. I also have trouble with certain rebuildable attys/coils. I cough my head off with certain coils even if the same juice doesn't bother me in another setup. Your issue is different, I am just saying some of us have different sensitivities. BUT, smoking made me cough like crazy toward the end so I will never go back to that.

Keep experimenting, you will get it figured out. Maybe just buy the ones that work for you in the meantime, still cheaper and better for you than smoking.

 

[Baditude]

Maybe mix much smaller amounts until you figure out the problem.

 

[Doctorvapes]

I had trouble making decent juice sometimes with DIY and I found the recipes are not always good . I got better results from one shots for flavoring.

 

[charlie1465]

Welcome to the friendly bunch

I'm glad to see that you have taken on board the advice here in terms of percentage calculations. I would bin your unvapeable stuff and proceed from there. In my opinion this is either a miscalculation problem or a specific base source problem. All my nic bases ever have been super smooth...sounds like you may have had several duff ones

Good luck.

 

[DeloresRose]

I agree, try smaller batches. I always make a 10 ml before I make a larger bottle. And 10 ml is easier to calculate than 55 ml, especially with 100mg/ml nic

I mean, punching the numbers into a calculator is easy regardless, but it’s easier to catch a goof up with nice round numbers.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

Hello, fellow Canadian! You have done an impressive amount of sleuthing to rule out possibilities. You've isolated the problem to the nicotine and you've confirmed that you're using it in the correct amount.

To obtain a target of 55mL of 3mg:
with 100mg nic-in-VG: 2.1g
with 100mg nic-in-PG: 1.7g
with 65mg nic-in-VG: 3.2g
with 65mg nic-in-PG: 2.6g

You've tried several different bottles of nic from different suppliers. You've even tried nic salts. Your target concentration of 3mg is normally very mild. All of them seem to taste too far too harsh both to you and your friends. Yet you have no problem with commercial e-juice.

I really don't have much to suggest to you except to make some small batches of unflavored juice to see how the nic performs on its own.

 

[DaveP]

Philippe, download and use the calculator in the link below. Make sure you enter the default weights correctly for all ingredients from BotBoy's link.

Ejuice calculator
eJuice Me Up - Best eJuice Calculator

BotBoy's DIY weights
Botboy141 Guide to Mixing By Weight : DIY_eJuice

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I was using DashVapes nicotine (100mg) (VG)

Not saying this is the root of your problem, but Dashvapes does not sell 100mg nic. There are laws against selling nicotine at that strength within Canada. The do sell 100% VG or PG nic but at 65mg/ml