Disgusting Treatment of Member!!!

[Katmar]

I think it's because you were relentlessly behaving like a total chode. But I can't be sure.

File that under: "not a democracy" or, perhaps more pertinently, "exception which proves the rule"

If you want a serious answer, I'll see if one of the mods wants to PM you about it.

Can you respond to the rest of Surf Monkey's post? I believe he added it in after you read the first part. If if would be better, you could come back to the Damn thread and talk to us when you have the time. Thanks, SJ.

 

[DagMatt]

"Chode" is a horribly underused word. Carry on...

 

[Surf Monkey]

I think it's because you were relentlessly behaving like a total chode. But I can't be sure.

Was I? Because I can pull the post and show it to you. Standard satire. Nothing out of line for the section. Furthermore, as per the rules you set up in there, being a "total chode" is not disallowed. If it were most of the people in there would have been banned already.

File that under: "not a democracy" or, perhaps more pertinently, "exception which proves the rule"

We get that it's not a democracy. Everyone in the OUTSIDE understands that. The problem here is consistency. I get suspended for literally no rule violation while others are allowed to post the most heinous and racist things with no response from staff beyond "gosh, that's just their opinion. Can't mod that!"

If you want a serious answer, I'll see if one of the mods wants to PM you about it.

YES! I want a serious answer. And it isn't just me. It's most of the members of the OUTSIDE asking. We've been trying to get some clarification for MONTHS.

 

[suprtrkr]

This is their year. It's God's will.

Sooooooo, how 'bout them Red Sox.

 

[Katmar]

"Chode" is a horribly underused word. Carry on...

Had to look it up.....

 

[Surf Monkey]

Can you respond to the rest of Surf Monkey's post? I believe he added it in after you read the first part. If if would be better, you could come back to the Damn thread and talk to us when you have the time. Thanks, SJ.

Agree. We'd like someone to discuss it with all of the OUTSIDE.

 

[Vinnybagodoughnuts]

I have no dog in this fight but I can certainly tell you from experience that running and modding a forum is not easy. It can be a thankless job sometimes. I always treat moderators of forums with respect because I know what they are doing is difficult and sometimes very frustrating. I can also say that if you had to do it for a while you would have a better understanding of the challenges involved. In my case I was not being paid to do it. I did it because I like helping people. Being caught between a rock and a hard place is not a great place to be.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Was I? Because I can pull the post and show it to you. Standard satire. Nothing out of line for the section. Furthermore, as per the rules you set up in there, being a "total chode" is not disallowed. If it were most of the people in there would have been banned already.



We get that it's not a democracy. Everyone in the OUTSIDE understands that. The problem here is consistency. I get suspended for literally no rule violation while others are allowed to post the most heinous and racist things with no response from staff beyond "gosh, that's just their opinion. Can't mod that!"



YES! I want a serious answer. And it isn't just me. It's most of the members of the OUTSIDE asking. We've been trying to get some clarification for MONTHS.

Can we let SJ deal with the far more egregious REMOVAL of Roxynoodle from these forums for a completely INOFFENSIVE perceived "infraction" and possibly not dilute this small ray of sunshine of hope, with matters of "timeouts for offensive behavior that everyone else is doing too"?

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I'm going to have to side with fair, too. Too often, the term "Nazi" is thrown out there without realizing the history of the Nazis and what they represented.

Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using Tapatalk

The Nazi's blindly followed a leader. Something we see often in the good ol US of A.
Just that none of our leaders have been quite as bad as Hitler.

 

[DagMatt]

Can we let SJ deal with the far more egregious REMOVAL of Roxynoodle from these forums for a completely INOFFENSIVE infraction and possibly not dilute this small ray of sunshine of hope, with matters of "timeouts for offensive behavior that everyone else is doing too"?

Quit acting like a chode. (I KEED, I KEED!)

 

[Surf Monkey]

I have no dog in this fight but I can certainly tell you from experience that running and modding a forum is not easy. It can be a thankless job sometimes. I always treat moderators of forums with respect because I know what they are doing is difficult and sometimes very frustrating. I can also say that if you had to do it for a while you would have a better understanding of the challenges involved. In my case I was not being paid to do it. I did it because I like helping people. Being caught between a rock and a hard place is not a great place to be.

Completely agree. I too have modded several boards in the past and it is no fun, thankless and typically puts a big target on your back.

But the issue here isn't people blindly attacking mods for no legitimate reason. The issue (at least the issue faced by the OUTSIDE) is moderation that is inconsistent, seems NOT to follow the established rules and is "enforced" without adequate explanation, leading members to be completely mistifyed as to why they were or weren't moderated in the first place.

 

[Katmar]

Can we let SJ deal with the far more egregious REMOVAL of Roxynoodle from these forums for a completely INOFFENSIVE perceived "infraction" and possibly not dilute this small ray of sunshine of hope, with matters of "timeouts for offensive behavior that everyone else is doing too"?

From what I understand, Roxy is NOT coming back, but, perhaps, this will set the stage to make a few changes for everyone.

And, indeed, losing Roxynoodle is HUGE.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Can we let SJ deal with the far more egregious REMOVAL of Roxynoodle from these forums for a completely INOFFENSIVE perceived "infraction" and possibly not dilute this small ray of sunshine of hope, with matters of "timeouts for offensive behavior that everyone else is doing too"?

It's the same issue. The exact same one.

 

[Douggro]

That is great and all, but the damage is already done with this one. Roxy is not going to come back and a lot of folks now have some pretty negative feelings towards ECF.
Maybe a lesson for the future is to moderate any offending threads or posts until you have talked with the member and sorted things out, instead of banning.

Yes, closing the gate after the horses got out of the corral is all that's going on with this. Roxy has avowed never to return, and the net result of the actions of the admins is a very ticked-off community.

Any thoughts I may have entertained about becoming a paying, Supporting Member have gone out the window. I see that other members are cancelling their support, and maybe this should be a call to action to others to do the same. Perhaps getting hit financially is the only way to motivate some re-thinking of not only the policies here, but more importantly, how those policies are enforced.

It's an easy target to throw the Moderators under the bus when something like this happens. But the reality is, it was their judgement of the application of policy that has led to this storm. I hope they are doing a thorough postmortem of their actions and can figure out where they went wrong, learn from it and figure out better means of handling issues in the future.

 

[Vaslovik]

He just said that our mods are Nazis. I think that's enough to warrant a ban. Like, if you think our moderators are Nazis you either a. have a very poor grasp of history, or b. just hate ECF. So I think I made the right choice.

Since the days of usenet the rule has been that the first in any dispute to invoke Hitler or the Nazis is automatically the loser. I support your choice.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I find a lot of joy in following large judicial issues. Reading about them and hearing/reading/listening to the arguments. I suppose it is just the social philosopher in me. I think that portion is past.

And, in the end, doors are closed and decisions are determined. The people live with it or move. I personally don't have the experience to run a forum with so many things to consider. So, in the end, by joining this or any other forum, I have given the right to others. But, we all get to evaluate our own position to stay or go. I for one, avoid letting my emotions or others opinions get in my way. Roxynoodle decides for Roxynoodle, I just have me.

Hope, faith and a good vape.

 

[EverPresentNoob]

ha ha. he called you a "Chode"....

 

[Gfdeputy2]

I have no dog in this fight but I can certainly tell you from experience that running and modding a forum is not easy. It can be a thankless job sometimes. I always treat moderators of forums with respect because I know what they are doing is difficult and sometimes very frustrating. I can also say that if you had to do it for a while you would have a better understanding of the challenges involved. In my case I was not being paid to do it. I did it because I like helping people. Being caught between a rock and a hard place is not a great place to be.

It is a thankless Job if anyone is going into that position to be praised is delusional. I mod in a hunting forum & you are correct it is not easy at all. but you must be consistent & fair. The Problem is some Mod's (not saying here on ECF) some get the notion that they are playing GOD & if they don't like you look out! I respect the fact that SmokeyJoe is taking the Brunt of the hits & protecting his staff. I hope the folks in the engine room thank you for that!

 

[Oliver]

I don't think that money was the motivating factor at all. It is merely an appropriate consequence of using the resources here IF one wants to be a supplier on, and to, this forum. For Roxy, it is an unscalable wall. But even THAT is not the worst part of supplier status for minor innovators here. It is the deletion of past contributions, and the lockdown to a particular supplier thread, with full isolation from all other aspects of the forum. THIS is the aspect of supplier status that really needs to be addressed, for the small time innovator/participants here.

Now, THAT said, I think we should all, in that same light, consider the limitations placed on our moderators, to be entirely fair about it. Not only it is an unpaid, mostly thankless job. Can you imagine the burden of that status, having to be OH so mindful of EVERYthing that you say in any post? They pretty much surrender THEIR ability to contribute in many threads, and take part in the frequent love-fests and friendships that occur here. By far one of THE most precious aspects of ECF. Having "special relationships" with other members would definitely lead to charges of favoritism, which honestly, I only perceive as being very rare, and even then I might be mistaken.

They also lose the ability to compete in, and receive the benefits of, the often contentious Prize Giveaways that occur here, while at the SAME time having to play referee and babysitter within those threads.

So, not to toss the baby out with the bath water. Let's keep respect for the mods, what they do here, and the obvious commitment that they absolutely MUST have to vaping and we vapers, to do what they do.

Not to be a suckup, but if we're going to complain about BAD service, then we ought to recognize GOOD service as well. I wouldn't want the job, and I am very thankful that SOME body does, as it does need doing. I appreciate SJ's vision in the idea of creating an opportunity for allowing suggestions and questions that might allow for positive change, or at least help us to understand why things are as they are.

Fear not, we're discussing much of what you're talking about in this post.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

From what I understand, Roxy is NOT coming back, but, perhaps, this will set the stage to make a few changes for everyone.

And, indeed, losing Roxynoodle is HUGE.

Ah well, I'm an unrelenting optimist. She has a LOT of friends here, and I think under the right circumstances, anything is possible. Never say never. Mistakes happen, and if they're acknowledge as such, a lot of feelings can change.