Disgusting Treatment of Member!!!

[Oliver]

THANK you, SJ. What you say is certainly true. A well known reviewer created and sold a total POS genesis using the resources here to promote it, and I was a victim of the manipulation. So I DO understand WHY ECF feels the need to be diligent.

As a frequent member of the welcoming committee in the New Members forum, I DO see how often the breaching of the walls are attempted, and so concede that there does need to be some kind of control, some mechanism to prevent unabated shilling.

I think a lot of the angst however, even aside from the great loss that is Roxy's banning, is the result of a feeling that bad moderation is so above reproach here, that even the slightest disagreement with a major decision like this, puts one on a secret list of heads to be rolled. I think we can all agree that we like order, and want to be protected, but not at the cost of a police state environment.

I hope you can trust me when I say that no such list exists, and that every decision that is made is done with detailed discussions in the private moderators forum. There's honestly nothing arbitrary, or based on personal grudges.

Thanks for your kind words regarding why we feel the need to be dilligent. We are, obviously, not capable of getting it right all the time, but we do try very hard. I doubt any other forum in any sector actually does this with as much tirelessness and commitment as ECF does.

It mainly goes unnoticed and unthanked - but when sensitive issues like this happen our admins get it in the neck. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!

 

[Oliver]

That is great and all, but the damage is already done with this one. Roxy is not going to come back and a lot of folks now have some pretty negative feelings towards ECF.
Maybe a lesson for the future is to moderate any offending threads or posts until you have talked with the member and sorted things out, instead of banning.
I appreciate that you are trying to protect ECF in all this, but I think the reaction to this was bit hasty.

And with respect, you know nothing of the background.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

I hope you can trust me when I say that no such list exists, and that every decision that is made is done with detailed discussions in the private moderators forum. There's honestly nothing arbitrary, or based on personal grudges.

Thanks for your kind words regarding why we feel the need to be dilligent. We are, obviously, not capable of getting it right all the time, but we do try very hard. I doubt any other forum in any sector actually does this with as much tirelessness and commitment as ECF does.

It mainly goes unnoticed and unthanked - but when sensitive issues like this happen our admins get it in the neck. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!

I certainly understand. And ECF has been a GREAT success. But, I've had some successes in life, and one thing has been abundantly clear. If it was EASY, everyone would be doing it.

 

[Tol]

And with respect, you know nothing of the background.

Fair enough. I would just hope that some of that background could be shared with folks here to better understand what went on and why the decision was made. It may help to alleviate some feelings for some.

 

[minimalsaint]

Now that the thread has been acknowledged and commented on by SJ rather than locked up, let's please be civil and allow it to remain that way. This could be a benchmark for future interactions and I much prefer the open nature of the discussion that SJ is offering us in return for lighting the torches to burn this place down.
If, in fact, Roxy is never to return to the forum, full disclosure may be a good thing on the part of ecf so the idea of the "heavy handed mods wielding ban hammers" can be shed from your public image, at least in this case.

 

[always9988]

Ecf may be successful, but it all comes down to the money. Pay up or ship out. Without our suppliers making innovations we would be stuffing cartos with blue fish mesh. I've watched a lot of extremely helpful people get banned here for various reasons, usually completely useless reasons. There are rarely warnings for those people. Actually I'm surprised this thread is even still active, usually they get deleted right away.

Either way I'll stick with the forums full of ecf outcasts, where being helpful is celebrated instead of banned, and you can talk about other forums without getting kicked for it. Vapers guild for one, and the other one is a banned word on here

 

[Jonner]

While I am still disappointed that RoxyNoodle has left, I do find it very "refreshing" that, at a minimum, @SmokeyJoe has taken notice, responded to this thread, and is looking into the matter.

 

[EverPresentNoob]

Id kinda like to know why there was a new rule made AFTER the fact and then used to ban Roxy... Yes she helped design a new device. yes she was talking about it. then the day of release that thread dissapears and all the knowledge goes with it. yet her aromamizer thread is still around...

 

[Oliver]

I just banned a member for calling our mods "Nazi brownshirts". Fair or not?

I'm going for fair.

 

[EverPresentNoob]

Ok, yea, that can be deemed as fair. that was a personal attack. But that rule was in place BEFORE he made that post.

 

[Oliver]

Id kinda like to know why there was a new rule made AFTER the fact and then used to ban Roxy... Yes she helped design a new device. yes she was talking about it. then the day of release that thread dissapears and all the knowledge goes with it. yet her aromamizer thread is still around...

I appreciate you'd like to know. And I'd like to tell you what happened, but out of respect for our admin team I'm not going to. Suffice to say that no new rules were made after the fact, and that this case is a unique one which is a little blurred around the edges. No malfeasance, no money grubbing (seriously @always9988 - did you read my post?), just a difficult issue - and I'm trying to resolve it all fairly.

 

[always9988]

I appreciate you'd like to know. And I'd like to tell you what happened, but out of respect for our admin team I'm not going to. Suffice to say that no new rules were made after the fact, and that this case is a unique one which is a little blurred around the edges. No malfeasance, no money grubbing (seriously @always9988 - did you read my post?), just a difficult issue - and I'm trying to resolve it all fairly.

I did. I'm just mentioning what I've seen in the years I've been here no harm no foul. I call it like I see it

 

[Oliver]

OK, well, you see only what you see. Which was kinda the point of my first post in this thread - would be nice if you'd give us a little benefit of the doubt.

 

[always9988]

I'm still allowed to have an opinion.

 

[Oliver]

I'm still allowed to have an opinion.

Sure. I'm just asking you to consider that there might be another side of the story which you didn't know about before forming your opinion

 

[Jonner]

There are two sides to every story, the truth lies somewhere in between.

 

[Oliver]

Why is this thread active still?

Simple - I have time right now to sit on it and respond. The buck stops with me - I'm the one who makes decisions ultimately.

In other cases, it's not fair for the mods/admins to be respond to challenges when it's me that decides whether those challenges are fair or not.

Maybe I should schedule in an hour or so per week to let members vent at me for perceived problems with the way we run things!

 

[Jonner]

Why is this thread active still?

Simple - I have time right now to sit on it and respond. The buck stops with me - I'm the one who makes decisions ultimately.

In other cases, it's not fair for the mods/admins to be respond to challenges when it's me that decides whether those challenges are fair or not.

Maybe I should schedule in an hour or so per week to let members vent at me for perceived problems with the way we run things!

Agreed, and I think most of us are glad that you have responded and appreciate that you are looking into the matter. As someone once had to explain to me, a forum is not a democracy, and I'm not arguing that it should be. Being an owner/moderator has to be difficult, you are never going to make everyone happy, especially where judgment calls need to be made.

 

[KY_Rob]

Sure. I'm just asking you to consider that there might be another side of the story which you didn't know about before forming your opinion

It's very difficult to consider another side of the story, when only one side is public knowledge. Opinions are made based upon data available. When that other side of the leaf is asked for and rejected out of some form of respect, then the perception is that something is being hidden, which just reinforces the one-sided opinion. Plain and simple, this whole situation looks daft based on the information available to the public.

 

[Capt.shay]

I'm not going to weigh in with my opinion on the issue, not even sure I have enough info to even make an informed one but I would like to thank Smokey J for responding and looking in to the matter.