DNA 40, NR, Nickel Builds
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Ya he blows clouds at 10w lollll but i say him bc in his standard nickel rda build video he fires it without the top cap on and at 410degrees and it was burning the way mine will at 470-480... At 410 its barely hot lol...
Im 100percent convinced theres a hardware issue when i figure it out i will def post it up here
Im 100percent convinced theres a hardware issue when i figure it out i will def post it up here
I'm willing to buy a spool of some other brand of wire if there is a possibility that the Lightning Vapes wire I'm using is the problem. Can anyone vouch for Atomizer Wick or Master of Clouds wire? Temco is out of stock.
Twiddle thumbs. Just gonna add a little perspective.
I've found that I've had to crank my wattage up considerably when compared to my kanthal builds to get the same heat and density. My preferred wattage is 22ish on kanthal, and 25 to 30watts on ni200
From a purely scientific POV, it makes sense if you consider the sheer mass of wires used for our nickel builds.
On my kanthal builds, im typically at 6 to 8 wraps 26ga on a 3/32 bit, single coil and it's vapor production and density galore.
On my nickel builds, im consistently at around 10 - 14 wraps 28ga around a 7/32 or 3mm bit.
That's a hell lot more wire, and consequently more power (I have a little blog entry written on heat capacities that might provide some background) required to heat up your cool.
In any case my point is, switching from kanthal to ni200 requires a whole range of change in mindsets, and wattage preference imo is certainly one of them.
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I've found that I've had to crank my wattage up considerably when compared to my kanthal builds to get the same heat and density. My preferred wattage is 22ish on kanthal, and 25 to 30watts on ni200
From a purely scientific POV, it makes sense if you consider the sheer mass of wires used for our nickel builds.
On my kanthal builds, im typically at 6 to 8 wraps 26ga on a 3/32 bit, single coil and it's vapor production and density galore.
On my nickel builds, im consistently at around 10 - 14 wraps 28ga around a 7/32 or 3mm bit.
That's a hell lot more wire, and consequently more power (I have a little blog entry written on heat capacities that might provide some background) required to heat up your cool.
In any case my point is, switching from kanthal to ni200 requires a whole range of change in mindsets, and wattage preference imo is certainly one of them.
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I mean im getting a nice vape out of this thing its just my temp protection on everyy build i do has to be set over 460... Usually from 460-510... Im still gettin used to the difference and im mot guna lie i went back to kanthal on my aeolus and went rite back to ni200!!!
Can machine oil on the ni200 maybe trip up the chip???
Can machine oil on the ni200 maybe trip up the chip???
Kiwi,
I agree with you about needing more power on Ni200 to accomplish the same thing and have noticed it for some time now. However until today I never mentioned it until I read a couple of post about being disappointed with the warmth, flavor and cloud the folks in the two post were missing.
I told them what to do and that is to jack up the TP by whatever is required to allow them to run at the power level they found provided a pleasing vape. Now I know that in general this will violate the higher temp safety limits but it is a catch 22. You can vape like you used to with Ni200 but the trade off is sacrificing some safety that the lower power and temperature provides.
I am currently running my Lamo at 20 watts and the TP @ 450 which gives me good taste and clouds but no warmth. To add the warmth I have to go to 25 watts and 500 to 550 TP depending on how efficient my current coil, wick and juice flow is. Also you you/me have to make sure you are moving a good amount of air or you will still run into TP.
Ultra safe = a mild cool vape and modest clouds
If one is trying to duplicate their 0.5 to 1 ohm Kanthal dripper vape you need more power and a higher TP (probably pushing the safe temperature range).
I believe you can go for one or the other but not both at the same time. i.e. Catch-22
Machine oil - I wouldn't think so but you can always clean it first with Alcohol or Dish soap and water.
I have 28g Lightning Vapes wire and master of clouds in 28 and 30g. I've had no problems with either and don't notice any difference between the two.
Just wantsd post my positive experience with nickel/the dna 40. I mainly use my tilemahos with 10 spaced wraps of 28ni on a 7/64 drill bit. Worka great at about 22watts with tp @400. My tilemahos has a metal tank so when the TP starts kicking in, or the wattage can't stay up at 22 watts, flavod drops off, I know I either need to fill up or open the juice control to allow more liquid to gst to the coil. It works perfectly.
In fact this setup is my standard, my go to setup. I have other devices with kanthal builds and this flask/tilemahos is the most reliable becuase I never burn my wick and routinely run 30+ mls of juice(jimmy the juice man's creme brulee) before rewicking.
If you are having trouble with ni, try a simple spaced single coil the thicker the gauge the better. Also twisted ni and kanthal is what I used to use, and it worked great, just got tired if having to use a drill and twist the wires
In fact this setup is my standard, my go to setup. I have other devices with kanthal builds and this flask/tilemahos is the most reliable becuase I never burn my wick and routinely run 30+ mls of juice(jimmy the juice man's creme brulee) before rewicking.
If you are having trouble with ni, try a simple spaced single coil the thicker the gauge the better. Also twisted ni and kanthal is what I used to use, and it worked great, just got tired if having to use a drill and twist the wires
You would end up with a hyper baby screaming for pizza.
"Taste your t**s". Hmmm, not sure that's a good idea.
What I'm taking away from all this is that perhaps we are all used to vastly varying temperatures with kanthal builds, and that TC with NI200 is bringing that to the fore. I can get very similar vapes at 420F (if all the connections and stars align etc etc.) but I never liked hot vapor anyway; a Kayfun was 13-14 watts for me, and the Origen V2 dual coil at 24 watts. I don't find it very different with the DNA40.
"Taste your t**s". Hmmm, not sure that's a good idea.
What I'm taking away from all this is that perhaps we are all used to vastly varying temperatures with kanthal builds, and that TC with NI200 is bringing that to the fore. I can get very similar vapes at 420F (if all the connections and stars align etc etc.) but I never liked hot vapor anyway; a Kayfun was 13-14 watts for me, and the Origen V2 dual coil at 24 watts. I don't find it very different with the DNA40.
I am not sure about the first comment either WideO.
As far as your takeaway on this I agree the Ni200 the way I vape is pretty much the same good cloud and taste. The temperature is IMO the same as the way I used Kanthal in a KayFun and actually pretty much the same as it was with a Kanthal dual coil Fogger (just more cloud). So for me there is no real disappointment with Ni200.
There are a lot of posts though by folks expecting the billowing warm clouds from their Ni200 builds. When you are using a 0.5 Kantal dripper and putting 25 -30 watts for sure you are going to get "Chucking Clouds" that vary between warm and modestly hot. The trouble with that is the temperature of your coil. I have no idea how hot those coils get but I would venture a guess that is well beyond 500 F. The safety advantage of capping the temp at, lets say 450, goes right out the window.
To those that say you can't get that with Ni200 I only say if you want to go 550 to 600 TP and crank up the wattage you can get the billowing clouds and warm vape you got with your non-TP builds at the cost of safely vaping e-juice by keeping the coil temp at 450 F and below.
I did make a suggestion to one person that if they are just plain disappointed in there DNA40 start out with the higher temperatures and if "Safety" is your ultimate goal then work your way down in temperature over time allowing yourself to become accustom to the lower temperatures.
WideO, it is difficult to quantify all of this stuff because a lot of what people expect out of the vaping experience also depends on the juice type, wicking efficiency and coil build. I believe you could have a thread just on this subject and it would soon be as big as Jeremy's Rayon thread and a gazillion opinions which is OK but sometimes I just want to vape and not turn everything into a scientific debate. I am quite happy with KayFun type vapes and using a 450 TP keeps me happy. Once in awhile when I use my dripper (for tasting purposes) and crank up the wattage those warm to hot vapes just buzz me out. Between the Nic Buzz and the tremendous cloud actually leaves me a little breathless and dizzy.
I mean im far from an expert and totally just learning on this device... My impression was that using steam engine you can create a coil with a specific heat flux for a given wattage.... Example a 14wrap 2.4mm 28gauge will run warm not hot at 25 and maybe somewhat hot at 30w... This gives a nice vape and going back to kanthal after it made me come rite back... I actually got it operating at 460degrees at 27.5 watts and its not hitting a brick wall on temp Control... Def an Awesome vape and vapor is comparable to a slightly sub ohm build... The only thing ive done different is soak the wire in soap... I dont kno if thatsss what made the difference but where i was jacking it up to 490 500 it seems 460 is more then enough to not have TP tank my wattage to 10 loll... So its either something small that was throwing TP offf or soaking it made a difference... Or maybe im just in too deep and im goin bananas...
One thing i ammmm sure of this thing is not NOob proof! Lol been building all sorts of coils for over a year and this learnin curve is no joke lol
Using steam engine to get a warm heat flux at say 35watts should run at 410-460degrees at 35watts withouttt jacking TP up to 500plus... I mean is that statement correct? I dnt kno how else to say it this was the impression i was under but i maybe completly wrong... The 25-30w is good for me but just curious other peoples experience with coils meant for higher wattages on rdas... Are people jacking up TP or succesfully making larger coils at higher watts and the same temp as smaller builds?
One thing i ammmm sure of this thing is not NOob proof! Lol been building all sorts of coils for over a year and this learnin curve is no joke lol
Using steam engine to get a warm heat flux at say 35watts should run at 410-460degrees at 35watts withouttt jacking TP up to 500plus... I mean is that statement correct? I dnt kno how else to say it this was the impression i was under but i maybe completly wrong... The 25-30w is good for me but just curious other peoples experience with coils meant for higher wattages on rdas... Are people jacking up TP or succesfully making larger coils at higher watts and the same temp as smaller builds?
let's say that my only interest in temp control is to never get a dry hit
what is the maximum temp I can vape without melting or scorching my rayon wicks?
what is the maximum temp I can vape without melting or scorching my rayon wicks?
Rayon will not melt. It is cellulose and burns just like cotton only at a slightly higher temperature. It is pretty hard to scorch it while it is wet or damp.
There are several Youtube videos of scorch tests. I have seen some with cotton but I expect by now there are several with rayon.
Just in general you are going to notice a reduction in flavor and vapor volume long before the wick is dry enough to start scorching.
I don't vape with Rayon so cannot answer your question directly, Vapenstein. I have tried Rayon a few times but as with so much of TP I strongly believe that actual experience is the key to getting what you want out of TP--especially when comparing Ni 200 to Kanthal.
The wisest comment I have read, in response to your questions, has come from The Kiwi. He mentioned a change in "mindset" being the critical factor. Or, to render as a soundbite: Ni 200 ain't Kanthal (period, full stop). As I read the responses to your question one thing that went unmentioned is just how adjustable DNA 40 TP is.
When the chip was released there was talk about adjusting temperature and wattage according to eliquid. There was even speculation that eliquid vendors would come to a point of listing the ideal temperature/wattage for their specific eliquid.
I vape MaxVG liquids almost exclusively. My temperature is adjusted between 400-450, occasionally down as low as 390. Moments ago I switched to a different (newer) liquid from my preferred vendor. All of that vendor's liquids vape within my preferred temperature range, usually between 430-450. Surprisingly, this particular liquid hit TP at 450. I bumped the temp up to 470...no TP. After vaping for a bit I wondered whether 460 would do the job. Backed the temp down to 460. Sure enough 460 did not hit TP. (The constituents of this eliquid is likely very different from the rest of this vendor's line.)
For me, this is a PROOF that TP/TL/TC can be used on a case-by-case base, i.e., can be used for the purposes it was designed. I should add that when I switch to a different VG/PG ratio I most certainly need to adjust temperature accordingly. The full proof was me switching [30 ml only] to a 70/30 ratio. With the latter I could go down to 390 to get the vape I prefer.
We all patiently await the Farsalinos study...
Anyone finding themself jacking up tp try making bigger better coils.... Got a twisted 30gauge 12 wrap in my aeolus and this thing is bangin at 30w 450degrees... Still don't get that popping i saw on rips video but she blows flavor and a respectable plume for sure... Guna try 26gauge next but for now the twisted 30 is considerably stronger vape then the 14wrap 2.4mm 28 gauge...
Popping in again! I can't remember who it was, but someone was looking for a 510 to 510 adaptor. Smth about making things work better with ni200. I don't think it'll work, and in fact think it'll make it worse (imo minimizing any latent resistance within your set up is probably the best move) but..... There's this really nifty little attachment on fasttech
This would work I think? 22mm, acts as an adaptor, and adds heat sink fins!
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This would work I think? 22mm, acts as an adaptor, and adds heat sink fins!
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Oh also interesting side note. I've been obsessing over the scorch point of my wicks, and have been hesitant to share and observation but here goes.
For rayon that's fresh from the best and dry, I found that I get yellowing only after 470 F. The scorching gets rapidly more serious as i increase the temp.
The interesting thing tho is that it's capacity to resist scorching is much higher when we approach it from a wet wick to dry wick (ie wick was wet. Then you keep firing till it looks damn dry, and then try firing again)
In the second approach, I've gone up to 530 without any marking on the rayon. So there's that. Yup!
ETA: all tests performed firing at 30W, and with 6 seconds firing pulses.
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For rayon that's fresh from the best and dry, I found that I get yellowing only after 470 F. The scorching gets rapidly more serious as i increase the temp.
The interesting thing tho is that it's capacity to resist scorching is much higher when we approach it from a wet wick to dry wick (ie wick was wet. Then you keep firing till it looks damn dry, and then try firing again)
In the second approach, I've gone up to 530 without any marking on the rayon. So there's that. Yup!
ETA: all tests performed firing at 30W, and with 6 seconds firing pulses.
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Erlkonigin TP Once again√
Ah, spaced for the first time
28 AWG Ni200, 3mm OD, Cold read: 0.1Ω
CC-Rayon, Bowtie Wick
420ºF, 23W
Ah, spaced for the first time
28 AWG Ni200, 3mm OD, Cold read: 0.1Ω
CC-Rayon, Bowtie Wick
420ºF, 23W
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