Do e-cigs help you quit smoking?
- Thread starter Bill Godshall
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Any vaper that is aware of what is going on, and is aware of CASAA, and is not supporting them within their means is negligent.
And that is me, trying my best to be kind.
If you are not aware of what is going on, then take your head out of the sand and read these Electronic Cigarette News subforums...
Electronic Cigarette News
If you are not aware of CASAA, then go to their website: CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association
And if you don't have the means to support them, then at least join them, because it costs nothing but means a lot...
Become a CASAA Member
I really don't know what else to say.
I really don't.
And that is me, trying my best to be kind.
If you are not aware of what is going on, then take your head out of the sand and read these Electronic Cigarette News subforums...
Electronic Cigarette News
If you are not aware of CASAA, then go to their website: CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association
And if you don't have the means to support them, then at least join them, because it costs nothing but means a lot...
Become a CASAA Member
I really don't know what else to say.
I really don't.
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I would say that anything that is BS should not be linked to directly.Maybe someone can jump in and expand on the subject
so I have a clue as to what not to post
But if unsure, the moderators will help with that determination.
The post with the link to Dr. Ellen Hahn's article was edited by a moderator
and the link was broken so not to give her Google Juice.
I understand not giving Google Juice thing ...
Just don't understand which authors are on the
Do-Not post list.
Maybe someone can jump in and expand on the subject
so I have a clue as to what not to post
Google Juice refers to how Google indexes webpages. If an anti e-cigarette article is linked on popular websites like ECF, it increases the article's 'Google Juice,' i.e., the article will show up earlier in Google search results. If you break the link, the article does not benefit from being on ECF.
All I have to go on is my own story. I started vaping February 2012. My smoking immediately decreased by 90%. I conintued to smoke and vape side by side. My assumption was I was still way ahead of the curve if I continued to smoke and vape the rest of my life vs smoking alone. On 3/25/12 I decided to try to vape only for one day because I wanted the flavor of vaping over the flavor of analogs. I haven't smoked any burnable tobacco since. IMHO it was vaping that definitely helped me quit analogs. Science may be hazy but my own experience is clear to me. Oh yes: I live with someone who smokes so analogs are readily available, even the same brand I used to use, at all times.
Good question!
Well stated, DC. Although you were "kinder" than I would be on this topic. In another thread a couple of weeks ago, someone stated that suggesting that all vapers should join and support CASAA was "communistic". I really don't understand what goes through some people's minds. I really don't understand why at least everyone on ECF are not supporting CASAA both by joining and financially, even if it's only a $5.00 donation.
Forget the part about spending other people's money, that's too easy and not your place no matter how affordable you think you are making it.
It costs nothing to sign on with CASAA. I forget but I thought the membership was something like 2500. There are 96,400 members here, 12,247 members active. There should be at least that many members of CASAA. They don't have money as an excuse.
Well, I don't agree with you about financially supporting CASAA. No one who spends the money required to vape can argue that a one time $5.00 donation to CASAA is too much to ask. And those who don't support CASAA really have no "legitimate" reason to complain about any negative actions taken against vaping. I do agree with you that every member of ECF or at least every US member of ECF should take the few minutes to join CASAA. And why any current ECF & CASAA member doesn't have the CASAA banner on their posts to try and spread the word, especially to new members, is beyond me, if one is truely concerned about efforts to protect vaping.
Take a look at this:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-links-junk-science-other-rubbish-posts.html
Basically, if you think it's a balanced article, or good for us - or even not so good for us but based on a reasonable point of view - then by all means link to it. It's it's obvious propaganda or junk science masquerading as fact - then break the link.
Link juice is what puts articles at the top of a google search for resources. If you want some pharma sockpuppet's junk science to be Google #1, then link to it. That doesn't make any sense to me. You can still provide the link, just break it up so the forum software doesn't create a link from it.
It it makes it any easier, here is another way of looking at it:
Articles by researchers that show there is some value to e-cigarettes: preserve link.
Articles of interest that appear to be reasonable even if they are not supportive of us: preserve link.
Articles by paid liars working for pharma research grants: break links.
Articles by brain donors without the least ability to consider factual evidence: break links.
Articles by people who think the world's biggest criminal corrupters are saints and have our best interests at heart: break links.
Articles by Elaine K or Bill G: create multiple links.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-links-junk-science-other-rubbish-posts.html
Basically, if you think it's a balanced article, or good for us - or even not so good for us but based on a reasonable point of view - then by all means link to it. It's it's obvious propaganda or junk science masquerading as fact - then break the link.
Link juice is what puts articles at the top of a google search for resources. If you want some pharma sockpuppet's junk science to be Google #1, then link to it. That doesn't make any sense to me. You can still provide the link, just break it up so the forum software doesn't create a link from it.
It it makes it any easier, here is another way of looking at it:
Articles by researchers that show there is some value to e-cigarettes: preserve link.
Articles of interest that appear to be reasonable even if they are not supportive of us: preserve link.
Articles by paid liars working for pharma research grants: break links.
Articles by brain donors without the least ability to consider factual evidence: break links.
Articles by people who think the world's biggest criminal corrupters are saints and have our best interests at heart: break links.
Articles by Elaine K or Bill G: create multiple links.
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I thought the article was a fair assessment of the current condition of the ecig industry and vapers in general. Lab testing is sparse and we really don't have long term usage information to assess. It's obvious that excessive use as a "pacifier" instead of periodically, as we smoked, causes lung irritation in some people. We see threads started here asking people if they get a heavy feeling in their lungs or irritation from vaping. The average smoker burned a cigarette once an hour, twice an hour, or constantly. Vapers fall into similar rates of use with some admitting that they never put theirs down.
Many people who vape like smokestacks feel the effect of PG and VG in their lungs and throat just like we felt the raw feeling from smoking too many cigarettes while partying the previous night when we smoked. The key is finding the vaping level at which the nicotine level is maintained and remaining there. Some people who find themselves vaping constantly might find it better to vape less frequently and use a higher nic level juice.
I think the quit rate of 30% quoted in the article is a little low, although we have lots of members who still smoke and vape. I was one of those until I finally decided to quit and just vape. My fear of withdrawal was mental. From day one, I had no cravings and within a few days, could stand around smokers and not even feel the urge to bum one.
Open press that includes comments from vapers and experiences with the transition from tobacco to ecigs are needed to educate the public. We need to help them understand the value of vaping and the success rate of actually quitting tobacco by using a satisfying alternative. Ecigs sooth the hand to mouth and inhale/exhale part of the habit. The other methods from big pharma don't. Non-smokers especially don't understand why smokers just don't quit. After all, to a non-smoker who doesn't comprehend the addiction, quitting should be easy.
Many people who vape like smokestacks feel the effect of PG and VG in their lungs and throat just like we felt the raw feeling from smoking too many cigarettes while partying the previous night when we smoked. The key is finding the vaping level at which the nicotine level is maintained and remaining there. Some people who find themselves vaping constantly might find it better to vape less frequently and use a higher nic level juice.
I think the quit rate of 30% quoted in the article is a little low, although we have lots of members who still smoke and vape. I was one of those until I finally decided to quit and just vape. My fear of withdrawal was mental. From day one, I had no cravings and within a few days, could stand around smokers and not even feel the urge to bum one.
Open press that includes comments from vapers and experiences with the transition from tobacco to ecigs are needed to educate the public. We need to help them understand the value of vaping and the success rate of actually quitting tobacco by using a satisfying alternative. Ecigs sooth the hand to mouth and inhale/exhale part of the habit. The other methods from big pharma don't. Non-smokers especially don't understand why smokers just don't quit. After all, to a non-smoker who doesn't comprehend the addiction, quitting should be easy.
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I think 30% is extremely low, at least for people who find this forum.
I would say for people who find this forum it is more like around 80% success rate.
I think a lot of people just keep on vaping because they love it, not so much because they are trying to get more nicotine.
I really think people would vape a lot less (like I do) if they switch to dripping.
Having to drip before vaping kind of helps you put it down, and only pick it up when you really want it.
I don't have a banner because I use my counter to keep track of my expenses and ECF limits the amount of sig lines (which is a good thing).
I didn't pay for my cigarettes and because of that I get reimbursed for the cigarettes I don't smoke but spend on electronics but I won't be the one saving the money. When/if I break even I do plan on sending some to CASAA. But that will be coming out of my own well below poverty level pocket. It's easy to think it's just $5 but when that $5 is the difference between eating that day or not it's not your call to make. Since this is a severe drought year my food bill is going to go from mostly free to mostly costing.
And if you're wondering why I have a computer and internet, if I wouldn't have lost my job and started working for myself I would probably still be anti-computer.
So you can't make the claim that everyone should donate money because you don't know everyone's situation, some people here could be looking at extremely expensive medical bills.
But since joining CASAA is free there's no excuse for not adding your name to their numbers so they can take those numbers to the media and lawmakers to say, "Look at how many followers we have."
I think CASAA's unscientific survey is up near 80% but I recall a more scientific study had it around 30% and is going to be expanded.
The 30% ish number is a good claim to avoid making claims that will later be proven false. If you say 30% and a later study says 20% you're still pretty good. If you claim 80% and a later study shows 30% you get accused of inflating numbers.
I think every vendor should have a direct link to join CASAA on their website.
And I think every invoice should include a sheet that briefly explains what CASAA is and why every vaper should join.
It is in the best interest of every vendor to do this, and I can't imagine why they aren't doing it.
If there were two vendors selling the product I want, I would buy from the one that showed their support for CASAA.
And I think every invoice should include a sheet that briefly explains what CASAA is and why every vaper should join.
It is in the best interest of every vendor to do this, and I can't imagine why they aren't doing it.
If there were two vendors selling the product I want, I would buy from the one that showed their support for CASAA.
Well, again, that really seems like rationalizations to me. I also run my own business and lost over 80% of my revenue in the economic downturn. It has been very tough for me and I'm sure for you and many others. But I just can't buy into the food on the table example because again, if someone can afford to buy eliquid, a PV and attys or cartos they can sure spare $5.00 for CASAA. I mean really, almost everyone admits on ECF that they are saving money by vaping within the first 4 - 6 months over the money they spent on analogs. In fact, they could send CASAA a $1.00 a month for 5 months. I'm sure you would even admit that a $1.00 a month is doeable for 90% of vapers.
But, you know what, if someone is really in a bind, like your example of heavy medical bills, I can understand that need to save every penny. But the fact of the matter is, I'm about 100% sure the vast majority of vapers could easily spare a one time donation of $5.00. So less be generours and say 10% of vapers on ECF are in that type of situation and can't contribute. And CASAA members account for about 20% of the active members on ECF currently. That leaves 70% of active ECF members who are doing nothing and could afford $5.00 and probably much more.
And on your example of the banner to keep track of your "savings" as a good reason not to use a CASAA banner, I have a question about that. I know that is a popular little banner that many use on ECF as a "look what I have accomplished" sign. But could you not also keep track of that "savings" the old fashion way with pen and paper? Then, being a good supporter of CASAA, you could be helping to bring attention to a group you seem to want to support.
But, hey, I'm not trying to argue. I'm just glad you believe CASAA is important, want to support it and plan on doing it financially, also, even though it will be a hardship. I just think many vapers take much for granted, especially considering those who run CASAA are all volunteers. I hope you don't mind the "give and take" of this discussion.
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I plan on sending $10 when I get ahead. I may break even and be ahead of supplies by 4 months, or my batteries could be die by then. But it should be around that time even if my batteries do start going.
I agree it's like you said, most people are saving money and can afford to slip a little to the CASAA here and there and still be ahead.
A pen and paper to keep track of my savings? I could do my taxes like that too but that's not very fun (I was going to add in and not even have a computer or internet but then I remembered they now require me to fill my business taxes online for the state).
My banner is not about accomplishment, it's all about money in and money out. It's not accurate for my quit date, just the amount of cigarettes not smoked. I wish there was a non-accomplishment type so I could figure in our new tax as part of my savings.
I could work up a spreadsheet to do the figuring but that wouldn't be a daily reminder of not to even think about spending.
Maybe someone should make one of these figures banners for CASAA.
I agree it's like you said, most people are saving money and can afford to slip a little to the CASAA here and there and still be ahead.
A pen and paper to keep track of my savings? I could do my taxes like that too but that's not very fun
(I was going to add in and not even have a computer or internet but then I remembered they now require me to fill my business taxes online for the state).My banner is not about accomplishment, it's all about money in and money out. It's not accurate for my quit date, just the amount of cigarettes not smoked. I wish there was a non-accomplishment type so I could figure in our new tax as part of my savings.
I could work up a spreadsheet to do the figuring but that wouldn't be a daily reminder of not to even think about spending.
Maybe someone should make one of these figures banners for CASAA.
The 30% figure comes from one of the very few clinical studies on e-cigarette success rates. I won't call it 'quitting smoking' because that is a whole different debate - it is preferable, to many of us, to refer to the process as switching to an alternative.
Be that as it may, there isn't much evidence for any statements about the success rate. A telephone / web survey (by Polosa?) established that 31% of consumers who bought one particular brand were still using it (or another brand) after a given time. This being a mini, and no support having been available, you could justifiably say that there is some evidence for a minimum 31% success rate at [X] months, since this would apply to the worst possible set of circumstances.
With full access to any/all hardware needed by the individual, full access to any/all types/strengths of e-liquid, and full mentoring, it could be expected that the success percentage would at least double.
It would be necessary to carry out several trials, over some of the longer timescales certainly including the standard 20-month mark for final determination of smoking status, run by different researchers; then we would be able to say, "This is the evidence for e-cigarette success" - in terms of switching. Of course, none of that is necessary for the ordinary person, as they can simply look at the facts: millions of people using them, usage growing every year, very large and enthusiastic communities growing around their use, and vaping prevalence growing by about 50% a year. If it didn't work, none of that would exist.
However, medics are different from ordinary people and need to be able to demonstrate in research what can be seen to exist.
Be that as it may, there isn't much evidence for any statements about the success rate. A telephone / web survey (by Polosa?) established that 31% of consumers who bought one particular brand were still using it (or another brand) after a given time. This being a mini, and no support having been available, you could justifiably say that there is some evidence for a minimum 31% success rate at [X] months, since this would apply to the worst possible set of circumstances.
With full access to any/all hardware needed by the individual, full access to any/all types/strengths of e-liquid, and full mentoring, it could be expected that the success percentage would at least double.
It would be necessary to carry out several trials, over some of the longer timescales certainly including the standard 20-month mark for final determination of smoking status, run by different researchers; then we would be able to say, "This is the evidence for e-cigarette success" - in terms of switching. Of course, none of that is necessary for the ordinary person, as they can simply look at the facts: millions of people using them, usage growing every year, very large and enthusiastic communities growing around their use, and vaping prevalence growing by about 50% a year. If it didn't work, none of that would exist.
However, medics are different from ordinary people and need to be able to demonstrate in research what can be seen to exist.
I would guess there is a sizable percentage of vapers who have reduced
their smoking from a pack-a-day to 1-3 cigarettes ... Their comfort zone.
Many in this category will never 100% quit. But should be recognized in
studies.
There are a number of variables which should be considered in studies.
E-cigarettes are indeed an alternative which have helped many quit smoking entirely.
their smoking from a pack-a-day to 1-3 cigarettes ... Their comfort zone.
Many in this category will never 100% quit. But should be recognized in
studies.
There are a number of variables which should be considered in studies.
E-cigarettes are indeed an alternative which have helped many quit smoking entirely.
Now you've done it...May as well call out Voldem...er HWSNBN...while your'e at it. Hehe
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