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Does anybody know where to find tobacco flavored flavoring?

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by Randall Fox, Feb 26, 2009.

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  1. Randall Fox

    Randall Fox Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 9, 2009
    Sparks, NV, USA
    I've tried about 15 different types of tobacco-flavored carts, and really don't care for any of them. What I'm hoping to do is find a variety of tobacco flavorings so I can experiment and maybe find a good mix.

    I've googled the heck out of the internet and couldn't come up with anything other than flavorings you add to tobacco.

    Anybody know where you can get a flavoring that tastes like tobacco?
     
  2. ZambucaLu

    ZambucaLu ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 23, 2008
    Central NY, USA
  3. Randall Fox

    Randall Fox Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 9, 2009
    Sparks, NV, USA
    Thanks SambucaLu,

    I saw that thread on my earlier search, but it seemed like they were adding the Seedman flavoring to other flavors.

    I checked out the Seedman page, and the description of their flavorings was ambiguous so I e-mailed them and asked if any of there flavors actually tasted like tobacco or were just enhancers.

    Jim replied "All of our flavorings are flavor enhancers, they do not contain
    tobacco flavoring themselves."

    I guess as a last resort I can always try to use their "enhancers" in conjunction with an existing liquid, but I sort of like the whole mad scientist mix-my-own approach.
     
  4. qreply

    qreply New Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    I'm a total newb...

    But here's what I did since getting my new e-cig.
    I got "tobacco" flavored carts with my first order. They tasted like ..., I'm afraid someone in China decided to use a base formula of tobacco extracted from camel dung for their recipe. I have been waiting for some of the more popular flavors to hit some of the sites I have seen here, in the meantime I decided to play with my own.

    I do not know how safe this is so try at your own risk.

    I heated some distilled water just below boiling (used approx 50 ML) and poured it over approx 1 1/2 heaping tablespoons of bulk Zig Zag tobacco, making in essence a tobacco tea. I let it sit for a few hours , filtered it through a coffee filter and ended up with about 30 ML of liquid.

    I mixed it 20 (tea) / (80 Glycerine) and it was OK, still a little light on the tobacco flavor. I'm going to try to play with it some more in small batches to see what I can come up with. I'm sure there is some nicotine in it but I have no way of telling how much, though it doesn't seem to be as much as the medium carts I started with. The next attempt I will use less water to try to concentrate the flavor more and hopefully get more flavor without overdoing the nicotine. Also the 80/20 mix still seems a little thick, it works good for dripping but seems to not wick very well in the cart.

    I'm kind of worried with reading some on the forums about vaporizer life using a tea like this for flavor, I'm not sure how clogged it might get even with filtering.

    One other small success was going through some of my wife's tea. She had some Republic of Tea - Wild Blueberry, that makes an awesome flavor but no nic so it's not very satisfying at this point but may be great for later.
     
  5. Jaaxx

    Jaaxx Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 24, 2008
    Atlanta, GA
    Careful here! The method you use is a valid one, but as of yet, no one really knows how much nicotine (if any) is extracted (or survives the process.)

    You might get none, which is ideal because you can control the nic with the commercial liquid you add it to. You might get something ridiculously high and end up in the hospital (or worse.)
     
  6. Randall Fox

    Randall Fox Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 9, 2009
    Sparks, NV, USA
    qreply, thanks for the idea. If I can't find any flavorings I might just try making "teas" from various bulk tobaccos.

    jaaxx, I agree we should be careful. I think if the "tea" was boiled for a little while it would probably remove all/most of the nicotine. Just need to be careful and keep an eye out for the nicbuzz with each batch I think.
     
  7. qreply

    qreply New Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    There would have to be some nicotine extracted, you could compare it to snuff or chewing tobacco. Though it is a transdermal (or for non-spitters- digestive) transfer of nicotine to the system. I would definately be very careful of adding a tobacco tea to a commercial liquid already containing nicotine.

    Hmm maybe I should get a few crickets or other critters from a pet supply store. Put a tiny drop of the tea on it's back - if it lives, use it - if it keels over within seconds - try another, more diluted batch.

    Wait forget I said that, I don't know how the peta folks feel about crickets... I wouldn't want them hunting me down.
     
  8. lordmage

    lordmage Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 15, 2008
    Dundalk,Maryland, USA
    the longer you boil tobacco the more nction you get the less water in the soulation the higher the nic in to you want to have a thin tobacco "tea" from a small amount and you dont want to boil it more
     
  9. qreply

    qreply New Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    I thought of another option I may give a try that might just reduce the chance of extracting too much nicotine but still getting the flavor. A long time ago I tried a pipe tobacco that had a very stong tobacco flavor and a pretty harsh bite. I want to say it was a burley rough cut but I'd have to see and smell it to be sure. A good strong pipe tobacco may be the trick, it shouldn't take much raw product to get the flavor wanted thereby reducing the amount of nicotine extracted in the process, especially if it has a strong bite, which seems to be the one thing alot of people miss when transitioning to eCigs.

    Also one of the reasons commercial tobacco flavors may be of a lesser quality is that higher quality aromatic tobacco is used for smokes, while lesser quality tobacco is used for nicotine extraction and possibly in the process flavoring extraction. This may not be in all cases but it makes sense and alot of research has gone into nicotine free tobacco and extraction of flavors as enhancers. Interesting site: tobaccodocuments.org
     
  10. jbbishop

    jbbishop Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2009
    SLC, UT U.S.A.
    Well this might be a start, I tried searching for tobacco essential oil.

    I know other sources have been posted on here already but I can't find them at the moment and these might be some new ones:

    Pure Absolute Oils, Pure Rose Ottos & Precious Essential Oils : Pure Absolute Essential Oils: The Collection of Rare and Precious Pure Essential Oils, Pure Absolute Essential Oils, Pure Lotus Absolute Oils, Pure Rare, Essential Oils & Pure Rose Ottos

    100% pure Tobacco Absolute Oil, imported from France (net 7.5 ml = ¼ Oz.)

    Also see:

    Essential Oils S-Z: Samara Botane Online

    15322115 TOBACCO ABSOLUTE 15 ml
    15322102 TOBACCO ABSOLUTE 2 ml
    15322105 TOBACCO ABSOLUTE 5 ml
    08321 TOBACCO CONCRETE
    11104105 TOBACCO LEAF 5 ml
    15104105 TOBACCO LEAF ABS 5 ml (nicotine free)

    AND

    http://www.gritman.com/DataSheets/Essential_Oils_Shop/Tobacco%20Absolute.html

    Tobacco Absolute Blond (Nicotiana tabacum)
    GCC: LC-GP Premium Bulgaria
    Retail: $37.04 1/6 oz.
    GENERAL INFORMATION: There is an absolute without nicotine which is called blond. There is an essential oil from CO2 extraction and steam distilled, but they have nicotine unless rectified. The nicotine seems to be the offending constituent, therefore the absolute seems safer here. There are nearly 100 species of Nicotiana.

    Tobacco absolute (Nicotiana tabacum)
    Tobacco absolute is a dense liquid with dark-brown to black-brown color with thin layer pale brown with sometimes greenish nuance and intensive aroma of tobacco. It is obtained from tobacco concrete. Aroma: Of tobacco, with flowery and spicy note.

    Nicotiana tabacum (Solanaceae) Virginia Tobacco
    The tobacco genus, Nicotiana, belongs to the nightshade family and consists of nearly 100 species, mainly from tropical and subtropical America. The most important species, N. tabacum, or Virginia tobacco, has leaves of 30-50 cm, and large pink flowers. It is not known as a wild plant. Another closely related species, N. rustica, or Rustica tobacco, is also extensively grown.

    I think that unless one were a commercial manufacturer importing from someplace like India this stuff is hard to get in quantities useful to us as individuals with all the delightful varieties advertised, e.g. Burley, Oriental, Virginia... anyone?
     
  11. jbbishop

    jbbishop Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2009
    SLC, UT U.S.A.
  12. Nazdrowie009

    Nazdrowie009 Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 19, 2009
    most of those surpliers are sold out. Everything seems to be for aromatherapy and making candles, scents ect.

    Will these just have tobacco scent or will they also have tobbaco flavor

    Are these even good for us to vape(healthy wise) and they are all called oils wont the oils mess up our atomizers?
     
  13. taz3cat

    taz3cat Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 2, 2008
    Port Arthur, Texas
    jjbbiship, that tobacco absolute from

    Essential Oils S-Z: Samara Botane Online

    According to Wikipeda, Nicotiana rustica has up to 9% nicotine

    TOBACCO ABSOLUTE
    Nicotiana rustica
    Plant Part: Leaves
    Extraction: Absolute
    Growing Practice: Ethical
    Country of Origin: Spain
     
  14. jbbishop

    jbbishop Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2009
    SLC, UT U.S.A.
    Well I don't have any facts, but I wouldn't believe that there is likely a high content of nicotine in the absolutes. Even if so, not much is used for flavoring. There's all kinds of information around here with ingredient disclosures and formulations that suggest the amount to use of any one tobacco flavoring is probably around 3%. Most formulations seem to use a combination of two or three of the approximately four varieties I believe I've seen.

    Yes, these tobacco absolutes are versions of the exact same thing that is used in the commercial e-liquid, except for the nicotiana rustica which is not used, and I have no idea whether that variety has any strong appeal for us. Unfortunately, from the published information about them it is not clear what variety is available to us here. I rather believe it is all Virginia, being the most common.

    These absolutes capture the aromatic and flavoring characteristics of tobacco. Much of the flavor is aromatic in nature... I've written elsewhere about a vanilla absolute which is also appealing.

    Do check the other links I posted on the first page of this thread I tried to collect a number of different suppliers they should have it in stock.
     
  15. taz3cat

    taz3cat Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 2, 2008
    Port Arthur, Texas
    Jbbishop, it depends on the tobacco absolute and which tobacco they make the absolute from, the one you found said is Nicotiana rustic and it is the one that has nicotine in it. The blond one made with Nicotiana tabacum dosen,t have but a trace of nicotine in that tobacco.

    Absolutes are made using something like everclear to extract the essense out of the herb. That web site you found explains how they make absolutes and other forms of extration of the main part of the herb

    That was a great find, thanks.
     
  16. LadyRyana

    LadyRyana Full Member

    Mar 20, 2009
    Idaho
    how off is my math?

    If i had a 15ml bottle of the Nicotiana rustica and it has up to 9% nicotine in it, and our 36mg e-juice seems to have about 3% then that 15ml bottle could be cut with a little under 1500ml of PG or VG to get the same as what we are currently getting in our e-juice?

    Or am I totally off base?
     
  17. Nazdrowie009

    Nazdrowie009 Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 19, 2009
    So you guys are saying its safe (for us and our atomizers) to put the tobacco absolute in our ejuice?
     
  18. jbbishop

    jbbishop Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2009
    SLC, UT U.S.A.
    Again, the nicotiana tabacum absolute is a variety of the exact same ingredient being used by commercial manufacturers. Therefore, we can assume it is perfectly acceptable for our uses. Assume for our purposes tobacco absolutes have NO nicotine, it really makes no difference here as we are using it as a flavoring and in low concentrations.

    The reference to 9% nicotine content above was not a description of the absolute, but of the content of the raw plant. We do not know how much nicotine content is in the absolutes other than the blond variety which is more expensive and has none but I think it unlikely to be a high concentration. People are using this without warnings in making soaps and perfumes and for all I know dabbing it directly on their skin and using it in aromatherapy.

    I'm not sure if the Nicotiana Rustica which is wild tobacco (or Indian tobacco) is of significant interest to us. The one we're looking at is the nicotiana tabacum. Indian tobacco is higher in nicotine and also harmala alkaloids than the regular tobacco used in American smoking products. It may offer an interesting flavor alternative. Someone may want to try this and report back.
     
  19. Nazdrowie009

    Nazdrowie009 Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 19, 2009
    ok thanks, I know you all posed some links before, but could you post a quick link of the tobacco absolute that commercial ejuice uses, so I can buy it.

    thanks
     
  20. Nazdrowie009

    Nazdrowie009 Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 19, 2009
    ok 1 more question i forgot to add, what would be better for our atomizers this tobacco absolute( does it contain oil, sugars, etc.) or seedmans commercial flavor enhancer?
     
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