Don't let anyone tell you that nicotine is a poison...
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We need water to survive. We need nicotine to function, because we're all addicts. End of story 
If I may, the intent of the OP was to help educate us when the illiterati starts in on us. (and thanks! so much better than yet another pv war)
I had many people start with me saying, "You know, nicotine causes cancer!"
I smile, take a long thoughtful vape, and ask them to prove it, to cite their source. Or just smile and vape, reminding myself that He loves the ignorant as well.
Remember, they thought that new red fruit from the new world was poisonous 200 years ago and tried to ban and banish it.
And good thing they didn't: I like tomato.
I had many people start with me saying, "You know, nicotine causes cancer!"
I smile, take a long thoughtful vape, and ask them to prove it, to cite their source. Or just smile and vape, reminding myself that He loves the ignorant as well.
Remember, they thought that new red fruit from the new world was poisonous 200 years ago and tried to ban and banish it.
And good thing they didn't: I like tomato.
Tell the parents of the kid that died in Israel its not poison. Is it an efficient killer? Probably not. Probably not as efficient as antifreeze or other household liquids and maybe that does not fill your criteria as a poison. But rather than arguing semantics, why not acknowledge it is dangerous if not used properly, and educate people on handling and using it.
Who is "He?"
Oh, and fun fact, the whole world thought tomatoes were poisonous due to people getting lead poisoning from the acidity leaching lead out of the containers they were stored in..
Look,
I understand what the OP is trying to say. It takes a LOT more nicotine than previously cited to be fatal. I get that. But webster's definition of poison is as follows:
a substance that can cause people or animals to die or to become very sick if it gets into their bodies especially by being swallowed
Another definition is as follows:
a substance that, when introduced into or absorbed by a living organism, causes death or injury, esp. one that kills by rapid action even in a small quantity.
Nicotine in it's pure form fits both of those definitions.
To call it one of the MOST poisonous substances known to man is hyperbole. To call it as "safe as water" is equally hyperbole.
No one argues that Nicotine should be treated with care. No one argues that we don't let our kids into our juice. No one argues that we don't put child resistant caps on it.
Also it is safe to say that caffeine and nicotine are not the same. The LD50 numbers for caffeine are about 150 to 200 mg/kg. Even the revised higher LD50 numbers for Nicotine are around 6.5mg to 13mg/kg. This still makes Nicotine about 15 to 30 times more toxic than caffeine.
Granted, in the doses we inhale via e-cigs, Nicotine toxicity is not a big concern. But to dismiss Nicotine as "harmless" or "non-poisonous" is simply misleading and not really factual.
I understand what the OP is trying to say. It takes a LOT more nicotine than previously cited to be fatal. I get that. But webster's definition of poison is as follows:
a substance that can cause people or animals to die or to become very sick if it gets into their bodies especially by being swallowed
Another definition is as follows:
a substance that, when introduced into or absorbed by a living organism, causes death or injury, esp. one that kills by rapid action even in a small quantity.
Nicotine in it's pure form fits both of those definitions.
To call it one of the MOST poisonous substances known to man is hyperbole. To call it as "safe as water" is equally hyperbole.
No one argues that Nicotine should be treated with care. No one argues that we don't let our kids into our juice. No one argues that we don't put child resistant caps on it.
Also it is safe to say that caffeine and nicotine are not the same. The LD50 numbers for caffeine are about 150 to 200 mg/kg. Even the revised higher LD50 numbers for Nicotine are around 6.5mg to 13mg/kg. This still makes Nicotine about 15 to 30 times more toxic than caffeine.
Granted, in the doses we inhale via e-cigs, Nicotine toxicity is not a big concern. But to dismiss Nicotine as "harmless" or "non-poisonous" is simply misleading and not really factual.
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Why argue semantics? Because it's all about semantics with these people.
Why would someone say nicotine is a poison unless they were trying to use a scary word to scare people?
Sounds like we may want to define "poisoning" a little bit more clearly...
Poisoning as in you will die?
Poisoning as in you will get sick and puke?
The former is a reason to ban nicotine, which I don't think it justified by any theorized "imminent danger" based on the numbers.
The latter is a good reason to let "the children" experiment with nicotine, as it may just teach them not to use it.
I know when I once drank too much vodka as a teen I became averse to vodka for many years.
Even the smell made me want to puke, and vodka is damn near odorless.
True story- 60 years ago my father caught my oldest brother smoking a cigarette when he was 14 years old. My Dad went to the store and bought 10 packs of cigarettes, brought them home, and told my brother he had to sit on the front porch steps and smoke every cigarette before he could come in the house. I wasn't born yet, but I've been told my Dad kept a lookout at the window just be sure my brother was ok.
According to my siblings he smoked quite a few before he started looking uncomfortable and soon after started throwing up. My Dad took him a glass of water and a wash cloth and asked if he wished to keep smoking. He begged my Dad to let him stop and promised to never ever smoke again. Throughout the rest of my brother's life he never smoked another cigarette and hated the smell of cigarette smoke. I like your thread DC
Too much of pretty much anything isn't good for us, including nicotine but there is perception by a lot of people that small doses of nicotine are highly dangerous and that simply isn't true.
I like your thread DC
I guess therein lies the rub. "What is a small dose". Naturally occurring nicotine is in many plants we eat. Even Tobacco which has a pretty high percentage of naturally occurring nicotine has levels of nicotine in levels the most of 65 mg/g of dried tobacco which is still very small.
By comparison, we can get Nicotine upwards of 100mg/ml for makng e-juice which is highly concentrated.
By the new numbers, 700mg can kill and DC is right is is VERY difficult to receive that type of dose from naturally occurring nicotine or through normal vaping.
However, only 14ml of 100mg/ml juice would be considered fatal to a 200 lb man (100kg). 100mg/ml juice is 10% by volume nicotine in solution, and if that were mixed in 16 oz (500ml) of water, you would have a solution of approximate 2.8mg/ml or .28% nicotine by volume.
Could I physically drink 16 oz of water mixed with 14ml of 100mg/ml juice in a short period of time? Don't know. Don't care to.
Any way you slice it, it's a potent poison. We just inhale insanely small does of it.....But our small dosage doesn't make it any less of a poison.....
Wait, what? The quote by Vocalek? That isn't about pharmaceutical nicotine exposures.
That would be wise.
I see you edited the Vocalek quote ..
Well lets face it nicotine IS a poison.... a couple of drops of 100% nicotine can kill you, opening 100% nicotine in a non-ventilated room can kill you, spilling it on your skin could kill you... 60mg+ nicotine in one go can kill you (although probably more like 300mg+). It is more potent than cyanide per ML as a poison, so basically it is a poison... The argument of "but water can kill you" is not really relevant. Its alright at low doses and will not give you many problems but at high doses it can be fatal, water we are talking GALLONS in one go whereas a few MILLILITERS of pure nicotine can kill you, therefore it is indeed a poison as poisons are rated by the potency per ML to cause death. If you used pure 100% nicotine to poison someone it would be an extremely effective poison, as good as strychnine, cyanide etc. In its 100% pure form, it is actually one of the most dangerous substances, literally 1ml of that stuff would probably kill you.
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Also nicotine can actually increase the risk of / possibly cause cancer.... However vaping is obviously 100x safer than smoking and really not all that bad for you but it is certainly not harmless. I am a vaper and like nicotine because of the effects it has, but I am just quoting facts. To me the positive effects of vaping are worth the relatively small health risks, but smoking tobacco is not worth it as it has nicotine + 1000's of other nasties in it.
"Historically, nicotine has not been regarded as a carcinogen and the IARC has not evaluated nicotine in its standalone form or assigned it to an official carcinogen group. While no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in the formation of human cancer, research over the last decade has identified nicotine's carcinogenic potential in animal models and cell culture.[64][65] Nicotine has been noted to directly cause cancer through a number of different mechanisms such as the activation of MAP Kinases.[66] Indirectly, nicotine increases cholinergic signalling (and adrenergic signalling in the case of colon cancer[67]), thereby impeding apoptosis (programmed cell death), promoting tumor growth, and activating growth factors and cellular mitogenic factors such as 5-LOX, and EGF. Nicotine also promotes cancer growth by stimulating angiogenesis and neovascularization.[68][69] In one study, nicotine administered to mice with tumors caused increases in tumor size (twofold increase), metastasis (nine-fold increase), and tumor recurrence (threefold increase).[70] N-Nitrosonornicotine (NNN), classified by the IARC as a Group 1 carcinogen, is produced endogenously from nitrite in saliva and nicotine."
"Historically, nicotine has not been regarded as a carcinogen and the IARC has not evaluated nicotine in its standalone form or assigned it to an official carcinogen group. While no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in the formation of human cancer, research over the last decade has identified nicotine's carcinogenic potential in animal models and cell culture.[64][65] Nicotine has been noted to directly cause cancer through a number of different mechanisms such as the activation of MAP Kinases.[66] Indirectly, nicotine increases cholinergic signalling (and adrenergic signalling in the case of colon cancer[67]), thereby impeding apoptosis (programmed cell death), promoting tumor growth, and activating growth factors and cellular mitogenic factors such as 5-LOX, and EGF. Nicotine also promotes cancer growth by stimulating angiogenesis and neovascularization.[68][69] In one study, nicotine administered to mice with tumors caused increases in tumor size (twofold increase), metastasis (nine-fold increase), and tumor recurrence (threefold increase).[70] N-Nitrosonornicotine (NNN), classified by the IARC as a Group 1 carcinogen, is produced endogenously from nitrite in saliva and nicotine."
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No I didn't.
Here is the original quote...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-artcile-utah-deseret-news-2.html#post5142363
It's exactly the same as what I posted.
I never said nicotine is not a poison.
I said everything is a poison.
It is the dose that makes it so.
What I also said was don't let anyone tell you that nicotine is a poison.
What I intended to imply, however, is not to let anyone opposed to vaping tell you that.
Because if they do, they are doing it to stir up fear and doubt.
And none of us should stand for that garbage.
Well no, I do not mean to be rude but it IS a poison, using your logic then strychnine, cyanide etc. are not poisons either.
But yes at the doses used when vaping it is not very toxic.... However if you vaped 5ml of 24mg liquid for example then that is getting into dangerous levels. Nicotine at low doses is not particularly toxic, but it is indeed a poison at quite small doses compared to something like water for example.
It is not good for you at any level, but compared to smoking it is not bad.
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Why would I disagree with you when I said everything is a poison?
Nicotine, strychnine, cyanide, all belong to the subset of everything, so we are in agreement.
You seem to want to draw some arbitrary line as to "how much" of a "given thing" will kill you in order to call it a poison.
I'm not going to fall for that.
If you want to say nicotine is extremely dangerous under conditions X, Y, and/or Z then fine.
I'll agree to that, and agree you should keep it away from children and take the proper care when handling it.
But that is not the point I wanted to make with this thread.
I guess I shouldn't have been so vague though when I started it.
But that's kinda how I roll...
I like to get people thinking for themselves...
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Why would I disagree with you when I said everything is a poison.
Nicotine, strychnine, cyanide, all belong to the subset of everything, so we are in agreement.
You seem to want to draw some arbitrary line as to "how much" of a "given thing" will kill you in order to call it a poison.
I'm not going to fall for that.
Its called science....
Not everything is a poison, nor is water, water is not actually toxic.
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The very title of your thread
Don't let anyone tell you that nicotine is a poison...
Implies in sensationalist terms that it is not toxic .. a neophyte to the PV lifestyle would be easily confused when all other indicators say it is toxic .. dosage disclaimer does not amend the title .. and should this topic not be posted in the DIY section where a lengthy discourse of caution is clearly displayed .. ??
Don't let anyone tell you that nicotine is a poison...
Implies in sensationalist terms that it is not toxic .. a neophyte to the PV lifestyle would be easily confused when all other indicators say it is toxic .. dosage disclaimer does not amend the title .. and should this topic not be posted in the DIY section where a lengthy discourse of caution is clearly displayed .. ??
...Meanwhile,,,back on planet Earth, Vapers are never likely to encounter anything higher than 100mg/mil, 90% of vapers will never encounter anything above 24mg/mil.
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