Doubting the "Science" behind steeping

[Agastar]

Ok, so I'm not doubting the results of steeping itself as there are too many people who have had good results with it but my speculation comes from what I've seen on youtube and read here and there about how it works.

The biggest common thing I've seen/heard is that it will change colors, as if that were the tell tell sign that it worked right. From what I understand, the nicotine when exposed to air (ie the bottle cap left open) will darken in color.

So, is it the juice that is changing color from the nic alone or do the flavors behave the same way? The reason I ask is because my wife likes 0 nic e-juice and I've been trying to make her some flavors. Knowing what I know about nic exposed to oxygen makes me wonder if there is going to be any benefit to steeping a 0 nic juice. Do the juices become better because of the oxidation of the nic in the e-juice or is it just time that makes it better?

Thanks

 

[Train2]

I don't think that steeping primarily is related to oxygen interaction with nic.
It's a FLAVOR change - that you probably WILL still get with 0 nice juice.
My personal observations that support this -
- I've had examples of pretty dramatic flavor change over time - in closed bottles. More substantial flavor change than you could expect from any degradation of the nicotine - it's clearly other factors at work (though I DO think some steeping effects I've seen may be evaporation of alcohol in certain flavorings, especially tobacco's and vanilla's that I hated when fresh).
- Even the color shift is weird - some turn yellow, some turn pink...

Bottom line - I'd still experiment. Vape some, steep some - see if there's a difference!

 

[Vash]

Some that I make dont taste any different while others such as my NETs I make do change over time.Yeah just experiment and see what you think

 

[WillyZee]

Only 45 days in, I am still new on the vape ... however I have already noticed steeping does work

 

[Crunktanium]

Don't always need to remove caps for steep it simply helps with evaporating the alcohol in certain flavors. Basically time allows the flavoring to fully saturate the other ingredients. Similarly if you light a candle it usually takes time for the scent to fill the room.

 

[ShariR]

I have found that the flavors will change over time. Some will mellow out some will come forward. Some juices will taste better in the first 30 days and others, especially tobaccos and teas and coffees will taste better as they age. Try the juice when you get it and then every few days until you find when it is at its best for you.

 

[Funk Dracula]

Ditto Agastar. I swear I was about to start a thread similar in subject material!

A few weeks ago after reading through one of the nicotine threads, I got a theory about steeping. And thus far it's worked absolutely flawless.

Here's what I did. I stored some unflavored nicotine mixture in pre-measured bottles for a period of three weeks, shook them once a day and treated them just like I would steeping a juice. They were all good to go, all I had to do was add flavor to a given bottle, shake it real good, and vape it. As expected, it yellowed in color and imparted the flavors of the impurities from the oxygen exposure.

Those impurities are the "salt" of steeping per say. The "mojo." I'm convinced of it now. The oxygenized nicotine dirties up and blends the flavors. The best way to describe it; it is how one would use salt in cooking food, or the fermenting of ingredients like Soy sauce.

E-juice is like a bottle of chocolate milk IMO; nothing a good vigorous shake won't take care of just fine. Heat steeping to thin down the viscosity and all this ultrasonic garbage is pointless. Your steeped juice is just "dirty," or "fermented" per say, plain and simple.

As for 0mg nicotine, those who would claim that steeping changed things; I dunno, man. I'd take the Pepsi challenge on that. Give them a placebo, tell 'em it's steeped and they'll love it. There is no scientific reason that there is anything happening without an actual chemical reaction. Just shake your bottle.. your should be good to go.

One decent simple scientific way to prove my theory is with a vanilla flavor. Ok.. mix a bottle of vanilla with nicotine, and one without. One of them "tastes" better and changes color after steeping. One of them doesn't and was good to go one minute after you mixed it. Guess which is which?

-B

 

[FinallyQuit]

I hate to throw a wrench into the works here, and this is not scientific just purely anecdotal and what I've noticed after a couple years of playing mad scientist.

I mix 0 nic test batches. The pg/vg I use are perfectly clear and colorless/odorless on their own. I put Capellas flavoring in, comes out of the bottle clear and colorless. Sits in a closed container with pg and vg for a week, without me touching it/opening it/shaking it/burping it/etc. etc. etc.

After a week it's either ruby red/pale pink/amber and one even turns orange. Why?

Flavor molecules are suspended in pg for dilution and sold to us; we keep them for months after their creation dates. Why don't they interact in their own bottle and change color before we mix them?

I have no answers either, just thought someone could find that answer for me.

 

[mourningshadow]

That's really odd because I mixed a couple batches of 0 nic for my wife a few months ago for when she is ready to go with no nicotine and they are still clear. The same recipes with even 6mg nic would turn orange or dark yellow/brown within a week or two.

 

[Hoosier]

One issue in this discussion is that some folks believe steeping and breathe are the same thing.

Those who believe that steeping occurs with open bottles are wrong.

Open does one thing. Closed does another thing. Both could very well do nothing to the flavor.

Since there could be nothing happening to change the flavor and the addition or subtraction of a single component can change what may, or may not, happen, extrapolation can be an exercise in frustrated logic.

 

[FinallyQuit]

One issue in this discussion is that some folks believe steeping and breathe are the same thing.

Those who believe that steeping occurs with open bottles are wrong.

Open does one thing. Closed does another thing. Both could very well do nothing to the flavor.

Since there could be nothing happening to change the flavor and the addition or subtraction of a single component can change what may, or may not, happen, extrapolation can be an exercise in frustrated logic.

The only kind of exercise I get these days!

 

[Ryedan]

A while back I did some research into steeping. I found this thread on ECF which taught me a lot about it. The title includes an ultrasonic cleaner, but really they get into all aspects of steeping and they know what they are talking about. Lots of reading and it is part 3, but if you really want info on this I can't think of any better way to get it

 

[Agastar]

I don't think that steeping primarily is related to oxygen interaction with nic.
It's a FLAVOR change - that you probably WILL still get with 0 nice juice.
My personal observations that support this -
- I've had examples of pretty dramatic flavor change over time - in closed bottles. More substantial flavor change than you could expect from any degradation of the nicotine - it's clearly other factors at work (though I DO think some steeping effects I've seen may be evaporation of alcohol in certain flavorings, especially tobacco's and vanilla's that I hated when fresh).
- Even the color shift is weird - some turn yellow, some turn pink...

Bottom line - I'd still experiment. Vape some, steep some - see if there's a difference!

Wow, some very good points here. Thanks!

 

[Agastar]

Ditto Agastar. I swear I was about to start a thread similar in subject material!

A few weeks ago after reading through one of the nicotine threads, I got a theory about steeping. And thus far it's worked absolutely flawless.

Here's what I did. I stored some unflavored nicotine mixture in pre-measured bottles for a period of three weeks, shook them once a day and treated them just like I would steeping a juice. They were all good to go, all I had to do was add flavor to a given bottle, shake it real good, and vape it. As expected, it yellowed in color and imparted the flavors of the impurities from the oxygen exposure.

Those impurities are the "salt" of steeping per say. The "mojo." I'm convinced of it now. The oxygenized nicotine dirties up and blends the flavors. The best way to describe it; it is how one would use salt in cooking food, or the fermenting of ingredients like Soy sauce.

E-juice is like a bottle of chocolate milk IMO; nothing a good vigorous shake won't take care of just fine. Heat steeping to thin down the viscosity and all this ultrasonic garbage is pointless. Your steeped juice is just "dirty," or "fermented" per say, plain and simple.

As for 0mg nicotine, those who would claim that steeping changed things; I dunno, man. I'd take the Pepsi challenge on that. Give them a placebo, tell 'em it's steeped and they'll love it. There is no scientific reason that there is anything happening without an actual chemical reaction. Just shake your bottle.. your should be good to go.

One decent simple scientific way to prove my theory is with a vanilla flavor. Ok.. mix a bottle of vanilla with nicotine, and one without. One of them "tastes" better and changes color after steeping. One of them doesn't and was good to go one minute after you mixed it. Guess which is which?

-B

Thanks for the comments, I definitely feel ya there

 

[Agastar]

I hate to throw a wrench into the works here, and this is not scientific just purely anecdotal and what I've noticed after a couple years of playing mad scientist.

I mix 0 nic test batches. The pg/vg I use are perfectly clear and colorless/odorless on their own. I put Capellas flavoring in, comes out of the bottle clear and colorless. Sits in a closed container with pg and vg for a week, without me touching it/opening it/shaking it/burping it/etc. etc. etc.

After a week it's either ruby red/pale pink/amber and one even turns orange. Why?

Flavor molecules are suspended in pg for dilution and sold to us; we keep them for months after their creation dates. Why don't they interact in their own bottle and change color before we mix them?

I have no answers either, just thought someone could find that answer for me.

See, things like this just goes to show that we might not really know what is going on lol. It is a very interesting phenomenon

 

[Chas_L]

Not all Nic comes in the same PG or VG base and not all Nic ,PG or VG are the same . I mix 180 ml batches of 70 PG / 30VG -12 mg Nic and also 60PG / 40VG -12 mg nic which I use to make small batches of new flavors. These base baches are clear when Imix them and they are still clear several weeks or more later even if I have used a good part of them meaning they have had an excess amount of exposure to air. The bottles I use for these batches do not even seal perfectly air tight and they stay in a room temperture closet.

Any ejuie with any vanilla which I have tried turns color fairly fast to a light pink to a fairly dark red depending on the brand and percentage used. I have some multi belnded vanillas which turn almost black in a few months.

 

[Agastar]

Thanks guys for all the replies, much appreciated.

 

[Rin13]

I only vape O nicotine juice and steeping DOES make a huge difference in most flavors. The only ones that don't seem to have a drastic change or any at all are some fruit flavors. Tobaccos always require steep time for me. Usually at least a week for them to be any good. The Vaping Zone flavors are the only bac's even vapable immediately... and sometimes not even those.

 

[Rin13]

Oh... and I do like Royal by FlavourArt immediately at 2%

 

[dannyv45]

I haven't read through this whole thread but it seems some very interesting points are being made here. I will come back and read a bit more carefully but in the mean time why not take a look at my steeping blog. It has some really good information about this process.