E Juice not a tobacco product????

[zoiDman]

Interesting question. I did some quick searching to find out - didn't come up with the answer, but found this:
...

TY ennagizer.

I'm not and Expert on the FDA or Drug Approval by Any Means.

But I thought they way it Basically went was you Submitted a Drug or Drug Delivery System to the FDA as well as a Claim of Effectiveness. Then You have to Submit Studies/Clinical Trials to Support your Claim. And to Show if there are Any Side Effects.

And the Process is Long and Costly.

But Like I said, I'm not and Expert in This Area.

 

[ennagizer]

Yeah, I just thought it was an interesting question and thought I could find an answer rather quickly. No dice. Probably in some news archives somewhere.

 

[BigBen2k]

That reminds me... in my googling for a nicotine extraction procedure from vegetables, I came across several articles about extracting nicotine from patches or gum...

 

[VV_James]

That reminds me... in my googling for a nicotine extraction procedure from vegetables, I came across several articles about extracting nicotine from patches or gum...

Need will win out!
Expensive, but do-able

 

[BigBen2k]

Cheaper than eggplant, for sure!

 

[VV_James]

Cheaper than eggplant, for sure!

Well I suspect so... You know haw many eggplants you'd need to extract an ounce of nicotine?!?
Me either, but I suspect it would be measured by the bushel!

ROFLMAO!

 

[Abbell]

Well I suspect so... You know haw many eggplants you'd need to extract an ounce of nicotine?!?
Me either, but I suspect it would be measured by the bushel!

ROFLMAO!

One ounce of nicotine would dilute out to 1250 ml of 24mg nicotine... hrmm. Just throw some parm and garlic on the leftovers and all is good.

 

[VV_James]

One ounce of nicotine would dilute out to 1250 ml of 24mg nicotine... hrmm. Just throw some parm and garlic on the leftovers and all is good.

I'm with ya, cept this IS the deep south... we'd dip in egg, roll it in a flour/cornmeal/black pepper blend, and drop it in hot lard!

When it gets golden brown blot it off with paper towels, and serve it with a bowl of ranch dressing as a dipping sauce!

DAMN! That be so good, you put a piece on your forehead and your tongue would beat your brains out trying to get to it!!

 

[The Ocelot]

I'm with ya, cept this IS the deep south... we'd dip in egg, roll it in a flour/cornmeal/black pepper blend, and drop it in hot lard!

When it gets golden brown blot it off with paper towels, and serve it with a bowl of ranch dressing as a dipping sauce!

DAMN! That be so good, you put a piece on your forehead and your tongue would beat your brains out trying to get to it!!

That's how my family makes eggplant.

Do you think there is more nicotine in green tomatoes? That would be yummy!

These posts keep reminding me of stills out in the woods, but instead of making 'shine they'd be soaking loose tobacco.

 

[DC2]

Has nicotine really never been used by the medical profession?

It seems to me like it would have a variety of medical applications. Tightening capilaries in the case of excess blood flow, for example, or as a stimulant, which are used quite regularly in the medical profession.

You know what...I just remembered something as I was typing the above.

My brother-in-law had colitis. For a while, his doctor had him on the nic patch. I can't remember exactly what it was intended to do for his colitis. It could have been an off-label prescription. But yes, in that case a doctor did prescribe nicotine...for something, anyway.

Nicotine is being tested (if not already being used) for various treatments...
--Alzheimers disease
--Parkinsons disease
--Ulcerative colitis
--Attention Deficit Disorder
--Schizophrenia
--Depression
--Anxiety

My belief is that Big Pharma wants nicotine under their umbrella in the worst way.
But Big Tobacco currently stands in their way.

And now, so do we.

 

[VV_James]

That's how my family makes eggplant.

Do you think there is more nicotine in green tomatoes? That would be yummy!

These posts keep reminding me of stills out in the woods, but instead of making 'shine they'd be soaking loose tobacco.

Don't even get me started on Fried green Tomatoes!!! My Mom tried her hand at a veggie garden when I was a kid, and not one of her tomatoes ever managed to ripen more than a slight yellow spot or two before they were yanked off the vine!



And I still have my Grandaddy's recipe for making Potato Mash Whiskey! Never had a chance to try it though.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

I wish it was true, because I agree that nicotine alone should not be regulated like cigarettes. But the FDA was backed by the law in that case. Section 201(ff) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act) (21 U.S.C. § 321(ff)) specifically excludes from the dietary supplement definition articles that are approved as new drugs under section 505 of the Act (21 U.S.C. § 355), unless the article in question was marketed as a dietary supplement or food before its approval as a drug. FDA first approved nicotine as prescription products between 1984 and 1992 (gums and patches), so no new nicotine product could claim to be a dietary supplement after 1992.

So then, what we need to do is find evidence of nicotine being marketed and/or used as a dietary supplement prior to its approval as a drug.

FWIW, the formulation of nicotine that was approved for gums, patches and lozenges is Nicotine Bitartrate Dihydrate, which is the pure crystalline nicotine salt. The form of nicotine that we are using is free base nicotine liquid.

The whole tobacco alkaloid extraction produces an entirely different suite of chemicals not previously available.

I don't know if these are differences without distinction, but minutiae can grow into big things.

 

[VV_James]

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Soap. Socks.

Let's get him!

 

[VV_James]

Soap. Socks.

Let's get him!

Sorry, I must have dozed off... Is this .....fest still going on???

Anyone to make a run for some fruit, cheese, and crackers to go with all this whine???

 

[Uncle Willie]

Sorry, I must have dozed off... Is this .....fest still going on???

Anyone to make a run for some fruit, cheese, and crackers to go with all this whine???

and you're a supplier .. ?? No thanks ..

 

[kristin]

What bothers me about this is that it doesn't seem like nicotine is a real "drug" in that it is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.
It is being used in the pharmaceutical industry to help people quit smoking, and if I am not mistaken smoking is not considered a disease.

My gut still tells me that the idea that nicotine is a drug can be challenged in court.
At least until Kristin straightens me out again.

A drug is defined as:
A substance recognized by an official pharmacopoeia or formulary.
A substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease.
A substance (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body.
A substance intended for use as a component of a medicine but not a device or a component, part or accessory of a device.
Biological products are included within this definition and are generally covered by the same laws and regulations, but differences exist regarding their manufacturing processes (chemical process versus biological process.)
Drugs@FDA Glossary of Terms

So, to be considered a drug, it doesn't have to necessarily "diagnose, treat, cure or prevent a disease." Being overweight, erectile dysfunction and thin eyelashes aren't a disease, yet there are FDA-approved products classified as drugs and available by prescription-only for those things. "Tobacco dependency" also isn't a disease, but it may be something people seek out a drug/medication to help them with and because nicotine is "intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man," it meets the statutory definition of "drug" under Section 201(g) of the FD&C Act (21 USC 321(g)). Classification of Products as Drugs and Devices and Additional Product Classification Issues

 

[zoiDman]

A drug is defined as:
A substance recognized by an official pharmacopoeia or formulary.
A substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease.
A substance (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body.
A substance intended for use as a component of a medicine but not a device or a component, part or accessory of a device.
Biological products are included within this definition and are generally covered by the same laws and regulations, but differences exist regarding their manufacturing processes (chemical process versus biological process.)
Drugs@FDA Glossary of Terms

So, to be considered a drug, it doesn't have to necessarily "diagnose, treat, cure or prevent a disease." Being overweight, erectile dysfunction and thin eyelashes aren't a disease, yet there are FDA-approved products classified as drugs and available by prescription-only for those things. "Tobacco dependency" also isn't a disease, but it may be something people seek out a drug/medication to help them with and because nicotine is "intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man," it meets the statutory definition of "drug" under Section 201(g) of the FD&C Act (21 USC 321(g)). Classification of Products as Drugs and Devices and Additional Product Classification Issues

I think the Entire Nicotine as a "Drug" is a Dead End.

But if a Person was to Pursue it, wouldn't they be going after Nicotine as an Over-the-Counter (OTC) Drug?

 

[kristin]

So then, what we need to do is find evidence of nicotine being marketed and/or used as a dietary supplement prior to its approval as a drug.

FWIW, the formulation of nicotine that was approved for gums, patches and lozenges is Nicotine Bitartrate Dihydrate, which is the pure crystalline nicotine salt. The form of nicotine that we are using is free base nicotine liquid.

The whole tobacco alkaloid extraction produces an entirely different suite of chemicals not previously available.

I don't know if these are differences without distinction, but minutiae can grow into big things.

It's possible you are onto something there.

But who is going to sue the FDA and make these arguments? It seems the people with the money to do it - big e-cigarette and tobacco companies - are happy with the status quo as a tobacco product. If the FDA issues unreasonable regulations by which those big companies' earnings are negatively impacted, I believe they are far more likely to argue for reasonable regulations as tobacco products (or try to get approved as MRTP) than fight for a whole new, unknown category. (And I still think nicotine is nicotine for regulations, regardless of the source or chemical makeup. But I could be wrong.)

What makes you say that the nicotine in e-cigarettes is something different? From my understanding, the nicotine in e-cigarettes is the same USP grade nicotine the pharmaceutical companies use for their NRT products. At least, that is what many e-cigarette companies claim.

 

[VV_James]

and you're a supplier .. ?? No thanks ..

We don't sell any of the stuff the last 20 pages or so have been arguing about...

Not even any Eggplant Juice!