E-liquid ingredient (PG) question

[Flametrix]

So I've been trying to do research on what to buy. Let's face it, I need to kick the nasty habit. Anyway, in my research I came across an ingredient used in the majority of e-liquids - Propylene Glycol. I had no idea what it was so I looked it up on the MSDS. Here's what it says:

Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of ingestion. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant, permeator), of eye contact (irritant), of
inhalation.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (sensitizer). CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS:
Not available. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be
toxic to central nervous system (CNS). Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.

And there's my dilemma. I know for sure cigs are a nasty health hazzard. If e-cig's liquid is an inhalation and ingestion irratant, even if mild, and prolonged/repeated exposure is going to cause damage to my lungs (if it contains Propylene Glycol) what are my options? I've been unable to locate ingredients on some of the juices and those that I have found contain PG. Are there juices out there that do not contain PG? Any direction to such manufacturers would be greatly appreciated. This is the only issue that has put a stop to my forward progress. HELP!

 

[Tersur]

Yes you can get juice that is VG (vegetable glycerine) based. Most flavoring even in vg liquids contain some PG but there are vendors who do VG flavoring if you are willing to pay a bit more.

 

[bjannr]

I started with 100% VG. I noticed the film it was leaving on my. windshield. I switched to a mix of PG/VG. The more info I found I decided that PG was safer, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Beans]

Well I'm not a doctor nor am I going into the technical aspect of PG usage but I will say take a look at the ingredient list of the standard cigarette. Then start googling the MSDS list of those ingredients. Yikes much more frightening and among the 4000 nasty ingredients you will find PG

I have been vaping PG heavily the last 300 plus days and I can say my health has improved 100% I feel fantastic not smoking. IMHO what ever the risk may be it's not nearly as bad as smoking.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

The American Association of Physicians and Surgeons views PG and VG A's safe and recommend Ecigs. They have a petition on thier website for physicians to sign. Also understand that PG is anti bacterial and is an ingredient in inhalers.

 

[eyenstein]

PG is like the 1st or second ingredient in that Mio water flavoring and many other food colorings etc. They feed PG into air ventilation systems in hospitals to clean the air. FDA approved that stuff. Analogs are loaded with toxins, not meant for consumption by any living thing yet most of us smoked a pack a day. You probably have been ingesting more PG in your food and drinks than you ever realized. Start reading ingredients for things around your home. You'll be surprised.

 

[seniorGecko]

I've been using my e-cig for a bit over a month and have tried 3 types of e-liquid.
70/30 PG-VG from ovale.
100% PG from dekang
100% VG from dekang
My body seems to be allergic to the PG. I get headaches and after a while I feel ill (like the onset of the Flu). It may be pure coincidence but I have been sick for the past week or so. Not blaming the ecig because I also consumed large quantities of alcohol the prior week as well
However the juices with PG have more flavor. And the one I enjoy the taste of the most is the 70/30 from ovale. But like you, I am also worried about the short and long term effects of these chemicals. Individual physiology is different. Maybe I'm just allergic to it or perhaps it IS harmful. I wish that we could get some real and unbiased testing and also some regulation.

 

[Tersur]

Some people have reported reactions to high pg that Vg cleared up. My vendor viking vapor you can order double flavouring to offset the vg lower flavor transfer. Im pretty pleased with there selection. Try the Bavarian cream.

 

[DaveP]

If you've recently quit smoking, then the headaches, along with cough and congestion, are common side effects of quitting smoking. Your lungs are recovering and the cilia that have been deadened by cigarette smoke, are recovering and making their normal wave like motions that move phlegm from the lungs to the throat, where it can be cleared by a cough.

Some people report dizziness after quitting smoking. This is from the increased oxygen levels in your body. You aren't used to having high oxygen levels!

 

[Fernand]

The warnings pertain to ingesting large doses. When you vape it's in an aerosol, small amount for large amount of air, and you exhale most of it. Also they are CYA formulated: if ever anyone got symptom X, it's on the list of hazards. If they applied literally, all vapers would be dead on day one. Personally I find PG makes me slightly sleepy and gives me an acid stomach, minor side effects compared e.g. to living in LA. I prefer all VG liquids and mix my own. Of course it leaves a film, you're vaporizing it, and it has to settle somewhere, I'd be very worried if it didn't!

 

[dormouse]

Hospitals use PG vapor to deliver medications, even to lung transplant patients, according to a thoracic surgeon.

PG is thin, lets through the most flavor, most nicotine TH. most nicotine irritation, makes thin vapor

VG is thick, dulls everything PG lets through, but makes thicker looking vapor. VG is too thick to work alone for many methods of vaping like simple stuffing cartomizers, reservoir cartomizers, tanks

Most people use blends. I use 80PG/20Vg and 90PG/10VG in cartomizers.

Read about inhaled PG studies here
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-studies-inhalation-effects-vaporized-pg.html

 

[seniorGecko]

I've quit smoking several times over the past 12 years, with the longest being 1 entire year. When I quit, I've never experienced this level of headache or flu-like symptoms.

 

[Hoosier]

Besides the obvious that MSDS's are written for industrial exposure, like 55 gallon drums instead of the few ml you'd carry for a PV, the fact that PG is already in cigs and all around you already.

My favorite use of PG is in fog machines like at any concert or haunted house or even stage plays. Think of all the musicians, rubber mask wearers, and actors that would have keeled over long ago from PG exposure instead of what they usually keel over from.

If you want real MSDS fun look at the ingredients of Coke or Pepsi for an acid that begins with "pho.." then check out the MSDS. Then take a swig, if you're brave enough....

 

[Mindfield]

I've been using my e-cig for a bit over a month and have tried 3 types of e-liquid.
70/30 PG-VG from ovale.
100% PG from dekang
100% VG from dekang
My body seems to be allergic to the PG. I get headaches and after a while I feel ill (like the onset of the Flu). It may be pure coincidence but I have been sick for the past week or so. Not blaming the ecig because I also consumed large quantities of alcohol the prior week as well

Keep in mind however that headaches and nausea are also potential signs of A) nicotine overdose, and B) dehydration. Both VG, PG and alcohol can dehydrate you so make sure you are well hydrated, and if you are certain you are and are still getting headaches and nausea, try reducing the amount you vape or reduce the nicotine content and see if that helps.

 

[dotma]

SeniorGecko, I am right there with you! I was fine the first month of vaping high PG and then for the next several weeks felt flu-like, tired, cruddy, achy, fuzzy headed, terrible. I have been trying to go mostly VG lately and a lot of those symptoms have resolved. I have things coming that I have ordered to help me go 100% VG and hopefully that gets rid of my symptoms. I had people tell me also that it was from quitting smoking, but I have not felt this cruddy for this long as a smoker or nonsmoker. REally the only things i experienced from quitting were cravings, crankiness and coughing.

OP -- i think you have legitimate concerns. PG is supposedly safe, VG is supposedly safe but do we really know? No, we really dont know long term because these things have not been around that long.

 

[dormouse]

seniorGecko -

- headache and general sick feeling is almost always too much nicotine in too short a time. Also any irregular heartbeat, blood pressure changes, cold fingers - too much nicotine within too short a time period. Don't smoke AND vape, control your amount of vaping, or lower your juice's nicotine level.

- one other possible contributor is dehydration. Vaping is drying. Drink plenty of fluids

Any symptoms like sore tongue, throat, mouth or even lungs are usually a combination of nicotine's skin irritation and not drinking enough fluids (because dry membranes are easier to irritate). Buy decent juice - not 100% PG, not Chinese juice. Buy juices with some VG in them to buffer the irritation. Even the nicotine patch warns of skin irritation.

It is unusual that someone is actually allergic to PG or VG. It is usually the nicotine.

 

[seniorGecko]

Thanks dotma. I forgot about the body-aches. I also agree that the headaches are from nicotine overdose as I have been vaping like crazy... I love it. But the flu symptoms are bad. And likewise, they came on about 3-4 weeks after I started. Maybe the body's tolerance was reached and it was rejecting it?
So I'm wondering the same about VG. One thing for sure, I cannot go back to the analog cigs. I can literally taste all of the carcinogens and crap! +1 for the ecig

 

[dotma]

SeniorGecko -- Thats what i thought too, that it was kind of a cummulative effect of the PG. I had been vaping very low nic level and still felt crummy with the PG.

 

[Michael Curry]

Everyone seems to go through this.... Propylene GLycol? OMG!?! What is it???

Instead of the MSDS, which deals with things usually in very different ways from how we use it, try looking up what a particular substance is used for.

If you're under about 60 years old, you've been consuming PG all your life.

 

[Darlene7]

I bought juice and I like it but I realize I bought too high mg for me - I can deal with it but wish I could dilute it somewhat - when I use to vape (around 2001) and then went back to analogs - now back on ecigs for the last few days - I use to use something I bought at Michaels Store, I think it was PG liquid to dilute my juice or mix - but it got so thin or whatever. Is there any other way to dilute the strength, I saw some non-nicotine juice but it was very expensive for it, will that work if I can find cheaper non-nicotine Juice to dilute it? Thanks for any help, Darlene