ECA do we want or need them

[nycsublimegirl]

Well here is the best answer to that question I or the ECA can give. This was/is our thinking in terms of dues.

1) we need an unthinkable amount of money to accomplish what needs to be accomplished.

2) we can not count on donations to do so.

3) many suppliers that could afford more may simply pay the lowest possible amount to say they are a member... so if we were to offer lets say a $20 a month level a big supplier may just opt for that...and that is not really fair as we are trying to keep them in business not just give them a stamp for their website.

Our dues are way more then most trade organizations....however name one other trade organization where what they are trading is facing a complete ban in the market place? And marry that to the idea that most trade organizations are based on a market that has been in existence for a long time with national corporations behind it. Even the biggest suppliers in the ecig arena are not more then 4 years old at the most mature... That is still a very new business in growth mode...without a lot of extra operating capital... It is not easy for any of us to hand over any sum of money. But the fact of the matter is ...if we don't then we will have no business no ecigs no vapor game over...

I was a big voice for the smaller business as we need stength in numbers. I made sure that line was added to the site about smaller businesses and I will have it corrected and changed to read more like you suggested.

That being said please feel free to contact me directly so I can get Chad involved and set you up with a membership (barring you meet the requirements on the App) that you feel is a comfortable fit with your market share.

alanza@ecassoc.org

 

[nycsublimegirl]

the seal they are referring to is not the ECA seal... it is actually a different member seal that looks like the below


Everyone as the site states is welcome to spread the word with our banners

 

[Angela]

I just think that the ECA turns a few people off (regardless of whether they mean to or not) by having the high-priced membership posted. Why not, instead of a "contact us if you cant afford it" statement, have a membership level in the range of most other trade associations.

Just a suggestion (taken from an association to which I belong): how about an 'associate membership' for start-ups / small businesses? Better to get something from a lot of suppliers than nothing at all!

 

[nycsublimegirl]

Just a suggestion (taken from an association to which I belong): how about an 'associate membership' for start-ups / small businesses? Better to get something from a lot of suppliers than nothing at all!

That is exactly what we have in place...but is not offered directly on the site for the reasons stated below. as I stated i will have them change the language to better reflect that.

 

[nycsublimegirl]

as promised the membership page on the ECA website is now worded in the following way :

If you own and operate a very small or new business within the electronic cigarette industry and can not afford the Basic Membership level at this time, please contact Chad Green about obtaining a reduced due schedule that will allow you to participate in the ECA.

 

[Lika]

the seal they are referring to is not the ECA seal... it is actually a different member seal that looks like the below


Everyone as the site states is welcome to spread the word with our banners

Thanks for the clarification. The ECA has two different seals. Who knew? Obviously not me.

I think I get it now. The seal on the donation banner is actually the ECA logo. It's also located prominently at the top of the official website on every page. The seal you posted here is the one that members get upon joining the ECA.

Is there a reason that you don't prominently dispaly your founding member seal on your own site? Branding efficiency...maybe? Just curious.

 

[Boston George]

Because ECA seals have been known to pull people like babachoo and willpower out of the woodwork

 

[nycsublimegirl]

Thanks for the clarification. The ECA has two different seals. Who knew? Obviously not me.

I think I get it now. The seal on the donation banner is actually the ECA logo. It's also located prominently at the top of the official website on every page. The seal you posted here is the one that members get upon joining the ECA.

Is there a reason that you don't prominently dispaly your founding member seal on your own site? Branding efficiency...maybe? Just curious.

Yes exactly correct that one on the banner is the LOGO...members will have their member seal like the one below based on donation and participation.

As far as my own page.... Bloog just officially applied and sent in dues...had to wait for the official app to be created ...then we had to complete and send in like everyone else.... lol... The member seals were just created...and this discussion actually reminded me to have my IT guy switch it out on our website... should be up later today or tomorrow.


edit: my guy is great...its up on our site now!

 

[Boston George]

First people complain we are out gunned in the money department.. then they complain we are asking for too much money from our members? which is it?

3 groups

1. New to e-smoking don't really get what the ECA is about.
2. Understand the gravity of the situation but have legitimate doubts about the ECA's ability to make change
3. Dont care what you will say, will spin anything they can for their agenda. [most vocal]

 

[nycsublimegirl]

3 groups

2. Understand the gravity of the situation but have legitimate doubts about the ECA's ability to make change

My question to these people would be if not the ECA then who?

If there is actually an answer to that.... let me know immediately who "they" are and the ECA will contact them to see if we can work together!!!


Now I know many will say RTV which we very much want to work with...we are just trying to line up all the answers to their questions to their satisfaction...

Anyone else out their not wanting to bury their head in the sand...and actually take action, by putting their money and time where their mouth is let me know.

 

[Lika]

Yes exactly correct that one on the banner is the LOGO...members will have their member seal like the one below based on donation and participation.

As far as my own page.... Bloog just officially applied and sent in dues...had to wait for the official app to be created ...then we had to complete and send in like everyone else.... lol... The member seals were just created...and this discussion actually reminded me to have my IT guy switch it out on our website... should be up later today or tomorrow.


edit: my guy is great...its up on our site now!

I second that your IT guy is great - that was super duper fast

Thanks for the clarifications... I think clarity is all that people really need. Instead of some people dissing this and that just ask the damn questions, lol. Ultimately most of us are all moving in the same direction.

 

[stevejo]

Thanks for the clarifications... I think clarity is all that people really need. Instead of some people dissing this and that just ask the damn questions, lol. Ultimately most of us are all moving in the same direction.

I agree there Lika -- I just wanted the clarifications so that smaller vendors, like myself, didn't go to the site and go "I don't have $800, piss on that!"

I think the ECA needs the members and they will wholeheartedly have something from me when my company gets to that point.

 

[nycsublimegirl]

Great Steve, look forward to having you as a member! thanks for the advice on the wording

 

[lvlninety9]

Man all I can say is wow. The level of carnage in this thread is ludicrous. Pro ECA anti ECA where does one fall in this list. Honestly I believe the ECA is good in concept, but it is catering to one group at the present time. The suppliers and the industry. I understand that there is a chain effect in that the consumers will fall victim if the suppliers are cut off. I also understand that there is a consumer group out there called RtV. In all honesty, what I see is group of suppliers trying hard to ensure that they can remain in business. If it was truly about the issue at hand which is the e-cig you would be a non-profit organization and not a not-for-profit trade organization. Everything about the ECA screams business' only and none for the consumer. I've been to the ECA site and I've read just about everything there and here. But I'm left with the awful taste that is this is about business and not the consumer. Valiant an effort as that may be but I feel that as a potential consumer my voice isn't being heard but the voice of those that try to turn a profit from it. The way it looks to me is that you guys are just trying to become the next big business conglomerate out there. If I'm mistaken then I apologize but all the talk of money tends to blind me about other intentions. Money = greed = the root of all evil. I applaud your efforts, but I believe you guys are going about it all the wrong way.

 

[Babachoo]

Man all I can say is wow. The level of carnage in this thread is ludicrous. Pro ECA anti ECA where does one fall in this list. Honestly I believe the ECA is good in concept, but it is catering to one group at the present time. The suppliers and the industry. I understand that there is a chain effect in that the consumers will fall victim if the suppliers are cut off. I also understand that there is a consumer group out there called RtV. In all honesty, what I see is group of suppliers trying hard to ensure that they can remain in business. If it was truly about the issue at hand which is the e-cig you would be a non-profit organization and not a not-for-profit trade organization. Everything about the ECA screams business' only and none for the consumer. I've been to the ECA site and I've read just about everything there and here. But I'm left with the awful taste that is this is about business and not the consumer. Valiant an effort as that may be but I feel that as a potential consumer my voice isn't being heard but the voice of those that try to turn a profit from it. The way it looks to me is that you guys are just trying to become the next big business conglomerate out there. If I'm mistaken then I apologize but all the talk of money tends to blind me about other intentions. Money = greed = the root of all evil. I applaud your efforts, but I believe you guys are going about it all the wrong way.

Excellent points. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that they're doing this to protect themselves, not necessarily us, the consumer. Honestly, they know that a growing number of us could probably make our own hardware, juice, and everything needed to sustain our ecig habits indefinitely, THANKS TO THIS FORUM. I think they're afraid of not only being shut down by the FDA, but also of the increasing level of DIY in the industry, with less and less needing to be purchased.

 

[Boston George]

I missed u Babachoo.

I think they're afraid of not only being shut down by the FDA, but also of the increasing level of DIY in the industry, with less and less needing to be purchased.

Babachoo if you can make an e-cig from scratch, I will be the first in line to buy it.

The ECA wants to keep e-cigs legal, your assertion on market share lost to DIY is baseless. But you know that


lvlninety9

The ECA has always been a non-profit organization.

I am sorry got the level of carnage in this thread, but I feel that its wrong to let misinformation fester.


Please note that I am not (yet) part of the ECA, and I am not speaking on their behalf.

 

[Letzin Hale]

Excellent points. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that they're doing this to protect themselves, not necessarily us, the consumer. Honestly, they know that a growing number of us could probably make our own hardware, juice, and everything needed to sustain our ecig habits indefinitely, THANKS TO THIS FORUM. I think they're afraid of not only being shut down by the FDA, but also of the increasing level of DIY in the industry, with less and less needing to be purchased.

I defended you Babachoo, or more your right to express your opinions and will always defend the right to free speech, whether or not I agree with it and even when, like you have demonstrated, it manifests itself in the form of what appear to be vindictive attacks. I will leave it to the official spokesperson of the ECA (although I still don't know who that is) to defend their cause and reply to your criticism. Having read your latest post leads me to thinking that you are labouring under a false impression if you really think that the ECA are afraid we will all start knocking up ecigs in our workshops, garages and kitchens and put them out of business. Wake up and smell the acrolein! Do the supermarkets run scared because many of us could grow a lot of our own food in our back gardens? Do the oil companies panic at the thought of us all refining our own fuel from used cooking oil? Do the clothes manufacturers have a crisis meeting if the sale of knitting needles goes up by a few percent? I really don't think so!
What began as you asking pertinent questions has developed into a personal fight with you repeatedly poking the 'dog' until it bites you. Go back to incisive and articulate questioning and maybe people will pay attention and even give you some respect.
Alan.

 

[lvlninety9]

BG I applaud your response. It's like I stated, that it just seems that the ECA is more concerned about e-cigs on a business level. I'm not trying to trash the ECA as I am more about stating the impression that I'm getting from it. I've read quite a few of the posts here and continue to read more and I'm quite disturbed about a few things. There was a post concerning a call to action where it stated that the ECA will be posting some information about what they are doing and I've read that post from beginning to end and saw nothing. I do however see quite a few posts concerning the financial aspect of the ECA. I also noted that the ECA doesn't include consumers to join the cause. Now while I respect that the local businessman is putting in his money to fund the organization, it doesn't sit well with me to exclude consumers from membership. This is another reason why I'm lead to believe that the ECA is only in it for business. As I stated if I am mistaken then I apologgize for the misinterpretation, but from what I have been reading I see nothing that contradicts what I've said. I'm an open minded person and I am very open to new ideas. This is why I try to read as much as possible about any given subject. In the end it all falls down to one basic principle. I have yet to see anything or read anything that shows that the ECA is for both consumers and business. Everything reads as a business only type organization. You would think that a group that is going up against something this big would want the support of everyone and not just the business owners. As I stated I could be mistaken but in this day and age the way one presents themselves, organization or individual, is a huge factor when determining any kind of support from the general public. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Babachoo]

I missed u Babachoo.



Babachoo if you can make an e-cig from scratch, I will be the first in line to buy it.

The ECA wants to keep e-cigs legal, your assertion on market share lost to DIY is baseless. But you know that


lvlninety9

The ECA has always been a non-profit organization.

I am sorry got the level of carnage in this thread, but I feel that its wrong to let misinformation fester.


Please note that I am not (yet) part of the ECA, and I am not speaking on their behalf.

Not saying from scratch, but I could after a few hours watching youtube videos on how to improve my soldering and a trip to Radio Shack. And yeah, it's not so big right now that anyone should be worried about having no customers buying anything, it was just a random tired thought about the DIY element growing at a really impressive rate lately, so it has to be in the minds of the suppliers on some level, even if they're only seeing the impact now on their liquid sales only.

And you say that the ECA has always been a nonprofit, but that's not true. They claim that they are a not-for-profit, but haven't been able to post proof quite yet that they have filed for such status and have been approved by the proper agencies. You should be careful about mixing up "nonprofit" with "not-for-profit" because there are some substantial differences. Hopefully though by tomorrow they'll post a link to their 501c6 paperwork and we can drop that issue completely though.

@Letzin, this is in reply to your post as well, I appreciate the input and agree to a certain extent because I just pulled a 16 hour shift at work and my thoughts aren't as precise so I'll go ahead and go to bed and return when I'm more rested.

 

[nycsublimegirl]

There is no difference in the term "non profit" and "not-for-profit" they are the exact same thing. see reference: Non-profit organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the ECA is a non profit/ not-for-profit .....501c6 - for your reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)