Ecta

[SoUnique]

Yes they did have some things to say.

I am letting this go. It is unfortunately not helping vaping in Canada. A lot of things aren't, and I don't want to be part of that hindrance.

 

[cactusgirl]

Yes they did have some things to say.

I am letting this go. It is unfortunately not helping vaping in Canada. A lot of things aren't, and I don't want to be part of that hindrance.

Thanks so much for enlightening us and bringing to our attention the...well, ummmm.....I'll have to get back to you.......thanks anyway! Have yourself a great day!

 

[Katz123]

Chelly,

I have nothing to do with them either, I am just a customer like you. But I am on the F/B page. They are not out to bash you. They want to answer your questions. They have not bashed you, and would like to try to help you understand things better so there is no more of this "they hate me" or "I bet they are bashing me right now".

A lot of the misconceptions here arise from a lack of knowledge, rumors taken to be correct facts, and hot tempers. Just because someone said something and posted it on the forums does not make it a true fact. We would all be a lot better off if we could just remember that before reacting (negatively or positively).


SoUnique,

You posted asking for someone to help you because you are confused. You were on F/B last night and were given the opportunity to ask your questions but declined to do so. How can they help you with your confusion if you don't tell them what you are not clear about. What is confusing you? What do you not understand? They have left your post up and are still waiting for you to ask your questions. Do you have any or did you just want to stir $h*t up? You are obviously very upset and passionate about something but if you do not ask any questions, you will remain confused. Please remember that spouting sarcastic babble is no way to have your questions answered.


To anyone else that is bashing or being bashed,

All of this stress that you are all experiencing and causing for others is counterproductive to everyone. Stress can and will make you sick, physically and mentally. (Just look at my avatar) We have already had several very respected members of our vaping community leave due to the stress and abuse caused by others. Many others have left quietly due to the fact they did not want to get flamed for refusing to watch people get raked over the coals. Do we want to self destruct? Posts are written by real people and are not written by a computer. A little respect is all anyone here wants. Even those who are upset at the moment.

Katz

 

[ChellyNelly]

Well that's news and a big surprise to me. I got bashed privately via PM anyways, so it evens out. Some of the folks that are running this ECTA show have extremely, extremely bad reputations on this forum for being bullies and having no respect for rules or any opinion but their own. I do not want the regulatory agency for my favourite hobby to have anything to do with people of this caliber. I have plenty more reasons for my distrust and anger towards this group but I will spare you all. This really is counterproductive and apparently all these big important ECTA folks have nothing better to do than sit around and read my posts so they can pick them apart, post them on their page, and generally rough me about.

So I'm outta here.

 

[albertbert]

ECTA is in full PR mode. That is what this is all about. Having Jay promote them, trying to clean up the facebook page, and let people back in, The interview, and the opening of the ECTA website is all obviously calculated to gain public support and promote the ecta vendors. It's kind of amusing that it is going so badly.

Chelly if you did rejoin, i'm sure the people in charge would treat you with respect, but it's all a show.

 

[classwife]

The ECF PM system will NOT be abused. If you receive a PM bashing you, please report it...we will look into it.

Bullying will NOT be tolerated.

The disrespect and sniping WILL stop.

Got it ?

 

[sabyrock]

Chelly,

I have nothing to do with them either, I am just a customer like you. But I am on the F/B page. They are not out to bash you. They want to answer your questions. They have not bashed you, and would like to try to help you understand things better so there is no more of this "they hate me" or "I bet they are bashing me right now".

A lot of the misconceptions here arise from a lack of knowledge, rumors taken to be correct facts, and hot tempers. Just because someone said something and posted it on the forums does not make it a true fact. We would all be a lot better off if we could just remember that before reacting (negatively or positively).


SoUnique,

You posted asking for someone to help you because you are confused. You were on F/B last night and were given the opportunity to ask your questions but declined to do so. How can they help you with your confusion if you don't tell them what you are not clear about. What is confusing you? What do you not understand? They have left your post up and are still waiting for you to ask your questions. Do you have any or did you just want to stir $h*t up? You are obviously very upset and passionate about something but if you do not ask any questions, you will remain confused. Please remember that spouting sarcastic babble is no way to have your questions answered.


To anyone else that is bashing or being bashed,

All of this stress that you are all experiencing and causing for others is counterproductive to everyone. Stress can and will make you sick, physically and mentally. (Just look at my avatar) We have already had several very respected members of our vaping community leave due to the stress and abuse caused by others. Many others have left quietly due to the fact they did not want to get flamed for refusing to watch people get raked over the coals. Do we want to self destruct? Posts are written by real people and are not written by a computer. A little respect is all anyone here wants. Even those who are upset at the moment.

Katz

finally someone say it the right way.
Katz123 your always being a gread lady. thank you

 

[Chinner]

Haha if this is pure PR mode they should fire the publicist! Since this whole thing was started, all ecta has done here is generate negativity, fighting, and cause a huge divide in what is a small group to begin with. All from a group with 5 times less people then my own personal Facebook friends list lol..

Regardless of who's involved or what they're plans are, the way this has all been handled is laughable. What a mess! I'd almost feel bad for that Katherine lady, if I wasn't 90% sure that she's being paid for her consultation. If I were to give you a consultation, this is what I would say. And as a disclaimer, I have neither love or hate for ecta.

1) freakindahouse: I'm assuming you're not 17, but when I read this, I assume you're 17. You are supposed to be important, you have to sound important. Your business email cannot be OMFGLOL6969@hotmail, can it? Katherine is a pretty name, ask a mod to change it maybe?

2). Tell everyone to shut up. You are supposed to be a legitimate organization, act that way. One and only one person should be dispensing the info, so it's always accurate and well put together.

3). Call off the dogs. Get your vendors/members out of these threads. Seriously, arguing with the consumers while fronting a consumer advocacy group is just in poor taste. You didnt see Steve jobs talking back to kids on forums who said iPods suck, did you? You can't win support by telling people you're great, you have to be great and people will support you.

4) if you have nothing to say, say nothing. All we've heard for months is "we're up to something, but we're not going to talk about it". Wait till you have some actual news and send out a press release like normal people. These threads are proof of the wild imaginations we all possess, don't leave people guessing. If you can't be transparent, you should be invisible.

In conclusion, what's going on here is that ecta has become the issue, not the Canadian industry. You could have channeled all these angry people into a useful mob, but instead the crowd has been split into haters and apologists for you. You never get a second chance at a first impression, too bad you guys have become a public comedy spectacle rather then a rallying force for Canadian vapers...

I could go on, but then I'd really have to send an invoice. I wish you all the best of luck!

 

[ChellyNelly]

3). Call off the dogs. Get your vendors/members out of these threads. Seriously, arguing with the consumers while fronting a consumer advocacy group is just in poor taste. You didnt see Steve jobs talking back to kids on forums who said iPods suck, did you? You can't win support by telling people you're great, you have to be great and people will support you.

I know I said I was done, but I felt the need to say something here. This is pretty well the whole of the issue that people have with ECTA. So far, they've only demonstrated that they can be a bunch of bullies, and that doesn't give me any hope at all.

This quote is so good it might just become my signature.

 

[freakindahouse]

I know I said I was done, but I felt the need to say something here. This is pretty well the whole of the issue that people have with ECTA. So far, they've only demonstrated that they can be a bunch of bullies, and that doesn't give me any hope at all.

If ECTA were a consumer advocacy group, then this point might have had some validity. However, as has been repeatedly made clear, ECTA is NOT a consumer advocacy group, it is a Trade Association - by the industry, for the industry, hopefully to help everyone in the long run.

It is on the same model as ECITA in the EU/UK, and here's what Rolygate had to say about that, via the Consumer Association ECCAUK:

"...the UK trade association ECITA is the strongest and best-organised in the world at this point, with well-admired regulations and the resources needed to manage vendor quality controls (their own GC-MS machine and pro chemists on the staff, for example).

An attack based on trying to show that an ecigarette is an unlicensed drug delivery device will fail (since so is a coffee percolator, a cocktail shaker, or a tobacco pipe); or, based on it delivering a drug with a significant pharmaceutical effect (ditto); or that ecigs are sold for the purpose of treating a disease (nicotine addiction) - they are more likely to be used for continuance of nicotine addiction than cessation, and are designed to be a permanent replacement for smoking and not for cessation; or that they are presently uncontrolled and unregulated (they are controlled and regulated by the Trading Standards authorities, who analyse the products for toxins and contaminants and who work closely with the trade association, who have received their praise); or that there is no framework for industry control (as the UK industry group is the best organised in the world).

In all likelihood an attack on e-cigarettes by a UK government agency would be a very expensive failure, as ECITA is now well able to defend against such an attack. The community would also be likely to present an amicus curiae brief and ask for substantial damages due to the malicious nature of the action."

UK Situation - 2 (It's quite near the bottom of that page)

And for the record, whilst my consultancy does have to charge fees, to cover the significant expenses of auditing and paying our staff, I do not personally take a salary for this work.

 

[albertbert]

If ECTA were a consumer advocacy group, then this point might have had some validity. However, as has been repeatedly made clear, ECTA is NOT a consumer advocacy group, it is a Trade Association - by the industry, for the industry, hopefully to help everyone in the long run.

Wow.. i don't know what to say to that.. Why are you guys here talking about ecta, and scheduling interviews if you think the public perception of ECTA is irrelevant? It's obvious what we think doesn't matter to you guys, you guys are going to do what you are going to do, but why bother with this PR campaign?

 

[freakindahouse]

We were asked for information. We've been trying to give it. Simple as.

 

[DemonCleaner]

I'm so confused right now you guys... I may not know what's going on but I wanna caps-yell something.
I LIKE VAPING THIS CHERRY COLA AAAAAAHRGH.

 

[talion]

As someone who is relatively new to vaping, with an open mind and no pre-conceived notions, no agenda, but familiar with this type of initiative, I have to say that this seems to be poorly done.

1) It's fine to have a secret agenda and a trade association. It's stupid, and bad for relations all around, to shout out "I've got a secret and I'm not telling, nyah,nyah". That’s childish, and counterproductive. It would have been better to have kept the secret, secret, and then emerge unified with an agenda and a plan of action. Discussion then would have been around issues and not personalities.

2) There should be a measure of support coming from the consumers the trade association serves. The objective clearly isn't to serve the consumers, but any lobby is more successful when there is a perceived degree of support behind it, and at best this is a lobby for businesspeople with the polite fiction that the consumers will benefit. While there might be some incidental side benefits to consumers the cumulative impact from a cursory view would seem to be negative, so who will get behind that?

3) Ultimately the goal is to preserve and promote business, enriching the bottom line. Anything anyone else says to the contrary is pure fluff, unless they are talking about survival of the industry itself. If the members of the trade association alienate their client base then who’s going to buy their products? Antipathy in the customer base kills businesses, and let’s face it, most of these business are not multi-million dollar corporations able to withstand these kinds of storms and rebuild their reps. If the most knowledgeable consumer base (arguably the people of this forum) tell people to stay away because they’re ...... then people will stay away, especially new customers looking for guidance (like myself, for instance).

4) costing someone his job? Really? How else would TVN be expected to react? Pretty cavalier treatment of the poor guy, I think.

Now, I’m the first to admit that I’m not either as immersed or as invested in this discussion as most of you. I’ve just started reading it today and these things that I mention just leap out at me. I can’t help but think that it must for others too. I’ll reserve full judgment until I’ve done a lot more reading, and I may be looking at some things out of full context, so I’ll dig deeper into it, but if I was looking at this just on the surface I’d be worried just as much about incompetence as about the issues. As a business owner in this environment I’d be worried and having the groupthink speak on my behalf too. Doesn’t sound like a winning strategy to make money.

 

[fuzzione]

I would echo talion's comments as a new vaper myself. This thread has also sparked my interest about the issues here and I will also reserve final opinion pending more research. Although my initial reaction is similarly not a positive one.

It scares me a little to think that my right to vape, the standards adopted therein, together with the prices I pay for the privilege may be influenced by a trade organization in which I have no say as a consumer. It is essential, as talion points out, that such an organization be buttressed by support from the very consumers they will ultimately be serving, without whom their businesses would not be possible in the first place. This becomes particularly important considering the relative novelty of ecig use in Canada and the immense walls that will eventually have to be broken down before any meaningful government understanding can be expected.

I don't know the history behind all the apparent bad blood here but it seems obvious ECTA's management of public opinion has not met with great success according to what I've read so far. This is so disappointing. Ideally such an organization should be embraced by us, the consumers. It isn't happening it seems, for one reason or another and this can't be a good thing. IMHO ECTA or their equivalent will get one real kick at the can to get this all right or ruin it for Canadian vapers, perhaps permanently.

It is my sincere hope that the next ECTA director's meeting table some alternative strategies for their initiative.

 

[wood]

and i think the noobies say it best , personally

 

[slojas]

I don't understand all the fuss about ECTA.

I for one am just boiling over with joy over the existence of it, I mean a group of Candian venders joining forces to set prices and availability, WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG WITH CONTROLLING PRICES AND SUPPLIES??.

I for one need to be told what I need and how much I need to pay for it.

Good job ECTA, keep banning those thinkers, people who ask questions are dangerous and should be silenced.

 

[Slim Batz]

If ECTA were a consumer advocacy group, then this point might have had some validity. However, as has been repeatedly made clear, ECTA is NOT a consumer advocacy group, it is a Trade Association - by the industry, for the industry, hopefully to help everyone in the long run.

Spotted in the Canadian Suppliers Forum....excerpt from new advertising post.

"Regards,
Rob
Evapers.com - Since 2009
Proud Founding Member of ECTA – Fighting for YOUR right to vape"

Sorry, I am trying very hard to look at all this objectively, but given Katherines comments, should a board member subsequently promote his business in an advertisement as an ECTA founder with the tag line "Fighting for YOUR right to vape" ? ... that sounds like consumer advocacy to me. Changing the message to suite the situation raises questions of credibility, which is the ECTA's biggest problem. I hope you see my point Katherine.

 

[encee_rz]

Sorry, I am trying very hard to look at all this objectively, but given Katherines comments, should a board member subsequently promote his business in an advertisement as an ECTA founder with the tag line "Fighting for YOUR right to vape" ? ... that sounds like consumer advocacy to me. Changing the message to suite the situation raises questions of credibility, which is the ECTA's biggest problem. I hope you see my point Katherine.

I see the problem here, he left out part of what he meant to say

It should have read as follows :

"fighting for your right to vape what we want you to at overpriced rates."

 

[albertbert]

Are the old prices for the sale items accurate? Or is it one of those MRSP things, where its always high to make the actual price look low? Anyway, if those are the old prices, really incredible sale, around 70% off, somewhere around that.

I don't get the trashing of "off brand" (non-joyetech) products, when some ecta members sell the same "off brand" stuff.