Education... Wait! Don't scroll past just yet. Want to learn, or teach?

[Rickajho]

I agree 'Flux but I fear the herding cats dilemma. Those who have enough smarts to at least research out the issues have plenty of info at hand and do the right thing. But the buttheads who turn into pre-teens at the sight of a pointless cloud of vapor being shot across the room from an oral cavity regress to pre-teen mental processes and they don't willingly seek out tips on practicality or safety. You remember how invincible you thought you were at age 12. (And how stoopid too.)

 

[Susan~S]

State -- here's another educational type TED talk video: Sugata Mitra: Build a School in the Cloud Very inspirational idea and video!

Educational researcher Sugata Mitra is the winner of the 2013 TED Prize. His wish: Build a School in the Cloud, where children can explore and learn from one another. Positive reinforcement was one of the keys -- i.e the "Granny Cloud".

 

[State O' Flux]

I think it's a great idea, personally. I've always been impressed by your knowledge, Mr. Flux, but I've never even held anything besides a 510/eGo.

Nevertheless, I'd be happy to do anything I can. I have a bit of teaching experience at the college level (math), and I sure do love to write documents using LaTeX, and its Powerpoint-like extension, Beamer. I don't know if you envision a hand-out (or definition sheet, etc) being handy at such an event or otherwise, but that's what I can offer, at this point

Of course, I'd also be interested in learning, but I don't imagine there will be much action near me.

Consider yourself on "The List" along with LDS714, readeuler.

You may not feel confident to qualify as an instructor - but teaching experience, college level math and familiarity with Powerpoint'ish programs will certainly be an asset to tap... and you may end up deeper in than you might want think. ;-)

Yes, I do envision handouts... basically, a "student copy" of the lesson plan, along with perhaps charts, graphs and a link page to useful on-line educational pages and videos.

My idea is for this to cover all the possible, most popular formats and methodologies at once... and ensure that when a student leaves, they have full after-class, written and video support. This is a huge undertaking, that may get parsed down... or ultimately not exist at all. We shall see where it goes.

Right now... industry support and committed instructors are two very important keys to this enterprise being more than just an idea.

 

[State O' Flux]

I agree 'Flux but I fear the herding cats dilemma. Those who have enough smarts to at least research out the issues have plenty of info at hand and do the right thing. But the buttheads who turn into pre-teens at the sight of a pointless cloud of vapor being shot across the room from an oral cavity regress to pre-teen mental processes and they don't willingly seek out tips on practicality of safety. You remember how invincible you thought you were at age 12. (And how stoopid too.)

I have lots of adult education experience, Rick - and herding cats... cats with big adult egos, is my specialty. ;-)

Seriously... I know that adults think they know it all (God knows I do ), but some have enough common sense to know they don't... and considering the safety aspects alone, may want to learn in a no pressure, no intimidation, highly supportive - "commiserating with fellow vapists" - type environment.

I want to do it because:
1. I don't want to see any one (else) get hurt.
2. Seeing so much misinformation on the idiotnet gets really annoying and...
3. People setting themselves on fire

is bad for the vaping community.

 

[State O' Flux]

I think it's a great idea! I might be interested

Don't think I overlooked you, Equil... you can't get away that easy - you're at the top of "The List". ;-)

 

[readeuler]

I still think it's awesome and responsible to provide a genuine effort, as one of the largest vaping communities on the web, to educate folks on safe usage.

When I google "mech mod safety" (for example) I see boatloads on mostly battery amp limits, and advice like "lock when not in use". Obviously, I'm simplifying a bit, by I know I was left wanting. Anyway, I imagine there's quite a bit more to be said, and lots of things experienced users learned the hard way, and now take for granted.

That said... As an instructor, you get to use a clone and blame it on your educator's salary, right?

 

[State O' Flux]

I still think it's awesome and responsible to provide a genuine effort, as one of the largest vaping communities on the web, to educate folks on safe usage.

When I google "mech mod safety" (for example) I see boatloads on mostly battery amp limits, and advice like "lock when not in use". Obviously, I'm simplifying a bit, by I know I was left wanting. Anyway, I imagine there's quite a bit more to be said, and lots of things experienced users learned the hard way, and now take for granted.

That said... As an instructor, you get to use a clone and blame it on your educator's salary, right?

I have a few authentics... and a few more clones. I don't really have a bias one way or the other... and feel that people should be allowed to make their own financial decisions. I'm not anyone's mom, or personal shopper. ;-)
Good quality clones, once inspected and fine-tuned, are about as reliable and safe as anything else - it's the uber-cheap stuff that young, "un-vape-tech-educated" folks on a budget buy, immediately toss on a crap RDA with an equally crap 0.05Ω coil - that concerns me the most. Sadly, those same young, over-proud folks are the least likely to be interested in education.

Funny thing really - some people on forums will mask their lack of knowledge on a subject with breezy posts and remarks - like they know everything... but it's clear they don't.
Once they find out that, if they don't act like asshats, no one will judge them - unless they refuse to acknowledge they've done something dangerous and show a desire to correct that issue - they tend to open up a bit and divulge their lack of education, along with a willingness and desire to learn. These are the folks I don't mind spending a good amount of "writing time" with.

This is why I want a face-to-face classroom environment. It's a given that everyone is there to learn... and that there's no shame or loss of "coolness" in learning. In fact, learning is perhaps the very best thing humans do... so it's strange to me when someone shows no interest in furthering their knowledge.
In a classroom, there is instant, interpersonal interaction, that can't be found in any other form of teaching. Some folks learn best this way. Others will do just fine with a webinar or DuhTube video... so my desire is to cover all the bases, if possible.

Sorry... I got off on a "blather tangent".

 

[readeuler]

Blather on, I'm pretty sure that's an OP privilege.

I really just wanted to make an "educator's salary" joke relevant to the topic at hand

 

[State O' Flux]

Blather on, I'm pretty sure that's an OP privilege.

I really just wanted to make an "educator's salary" joke relevant to the topic at hand

I was an educator (and the pay sucked, but I loved the job)... then I got cancer, then I lost my house and retirement savings, then I just recently had to go back to a 9-5 mechanics job because it was the easiest, quickest to get - and I need the money... so says my wife/banker/investment councilor/pain in my side.

So much for early retirement huh? ;-)

 

[readeuler]

I was an educator (and the pay sucked, but I loved the job)... then I got cancer, then I lost my house and retirement savings, then I just recently had to go back to a 9-5 mechanics job because it was the easiest, quickest to get - and I need the money... so says my wife/banker/investment councilor/pain in my side.

So much for early retirement huh? ;-)

Sheesh, sounds like!

Well, I'm pretty freshly graduated, and foolhardy enough to consider stepping back in the ring for another X years to get a "terminal" degree.

But, in the meantime, I did pick up 2 classes from from the alma mater. Crazy pay. By my calculation, 5% of the tuition for the course finds its way to me.

It is fun a fun gig though (in a masochistic way), I really can't deny that.

EDIT: Now I see why your name is quite apt!

 

[Susan~S]

Bump for the evening crowd!

 

[State O' Flux]

Bump for the evening crowd!

 

[dragonpuff]

State O' Flux, I love this idea and you can count me in!

My experience with mods and other 3rd generation equipment is extremely limited at this point but I am learning quickly. I have an engineering degree so it doesn't take me much time to pick up on these things - my major limitation right now is simply the lack of money to spend on equipment to try it, coupled with the fact that there are no mech mod owners within a 20 mile radius of me that I'm aware of... my local vapor shop sells some Innokin mods and nothing else that advanced. So basically I'm lacking in hands-on experience at this point, but that won't last

I also have experience teaching, I have been a math tutor at a community college since 2008

I think the best approach here is a combined one - we have an online training course for the general individual who wants to learn, and also have in-person courses that are geared toward B&M owners so they know how to operate their own equipment safely and can pass off that knowledge onto their customers. Judging by the threads on the forum it is clear that many shop owners do not understand their own products - I would like to see them be able to obtain official certifications they can hang on their wall showing what training courses they took. Then customers will know to look for that when they walk into a shop and that will hopefully solve some of our problems. We can make the in-person courses open to all who want to learn, but geared particularly toward shop owners.

We also may want to add into some of these courses a smattering of current e-cig scientific knowledge, so everyone is kept up to date and is not confused by the news media spins.

 

[Racehorse]

People with mechs, APVs and RBAs who know nothing about them - potentially dangerous to themselves and those around them - who need education and knowledge...


I propose that a group of well-rounded, knowledgeable and advanced vapists (you know who you are - and aren't) get together and develop a classroom format training program...

So the vendors selling and or manufacturing all these things can't be bothered to do that? I've read plenty of good tutorials on a *few* vendor's sites, both via videos and text.

I suggest more of them do so.

If this is their chosen way to make a living, and if they are professionals not just in it to make a fast buck, they have already done what you suggest.

If you are selling something then it behooves you to teach your consumers how to use your products, doesn't it?

That said, there are THOUSANDS of YouTube videos on how to do just about anything with any piece of vaping equipment, not to mention hundreds of thousands of posts on this vaping forum (and other vaping forums).

I think your idea is lovely but would be a duplication of what is already out there. I think what we need are billboards, as large as buildings, and megaphones........becuase despite the wealth of both written and visual material, some users are not paying attention.

geared toward B&M owners so they know how to operate their own equipment safely and can pass off that knowledge onto their customers. Judging by the threads on the forum it is clear that many shop owners do not understand their own products -

I'm sorry, but if you are in biz and making money, and you don't know what you're doing, then you probably should be doing something else.

Really, not being mean, just don't have much patience for that kind of "business". For goodness sakes. If you are running a vape store and don't know your products, then you don't deserve to be in the industry.

There are a lot of truly worthy causes that I would spend my time and energy on.....people all over the planet who need help......but if a business owner can't be bothered to learn about the products they sell, that just wouldn't be real high on my own personal list of must-help populations.

 

[Ryedan]

State O' Flux, kudos for trying to do something more about the rampant lack of education about vaping that's out there.

Please keep me in the loop. If there is anything I can do to help, I'm in

 

[UncleChuck]

This really is a great idea, the logistics of it worry me a bit but if there is anything I can do to help I'd love to lend a hand! I hope my anti-anti-cloudchaser rants here on ECF haven't branded me a dangerous vaper

Educate instead of attack is the method I support, so I'm here if you need a Cascadian helper monkey.

 

[DavidOck]

Not sure I could help with any classroom portions, as I'm a ways out in "the sticks." But I'm with you on the other parts, retired hydro plant electrician and apprentice instructor.

Uh, Racehorse, you say "If you are selling something then it behooves you to teach your consumers how to use your products, doesn't it?" You buy a car, it has a manual telling you what the switches are for - but Ford doesn't teach you how to drive. Or how to drive safely... Unfortunately, in vapeworld, there's lots of hardware that doesn't even tell you what the switches are for - and yes, I agree, that's a failing on their part!

Sure, ton's of Utubes, and lots of them are either badly done or just plain wrong and dangerous... and how's a noob to know?

 

[HecticEnergy]

It may be useful to consider running these at vape events too.
I like the idea of a certification for B&ms. It's easy to say "if you don know your shiz you shouldn't be in business" I think it's bold to say, let's make sure our shops and their employees are knowledgable about the products by doing trainings in a structured format so they are helping their customers with the do's and don'ts of vaping.

Not like the kids behind the counter at this shop...
http://youtu.be/vaYkYvuSOyE

I think there is value in what we are talking about doing here. I don't think it will do anything for the ANTZ, but if we can make vaping a safe and pleasant experience for those getting into the various levels of vaping I'm all for it.
Not everyone is surfing the web doing research on these products. Some blindly trust the b&m to be their local experts... And I think they should be (experts, not blind followers.. Lol)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[State O' Flux]

G'morning everyone...

I've had a chance to read (but not yet ponder implications at length) posts from #33 on down, and I certainly do appreciate all comments - good, bad... and "meh".
All contributions are welcome and considered - however at this point, there are "duplications of idea"... which is par for the course on threads running longer than 3 posts.

I have limited time this AM, so I'm afraid I can't respond to each individual post as I did yesterday. Sorry.

I've received a well considered response from Lisa at Cloud 9 in the UK. She's on board with the idea... with several caveats of course - relative to their location, but that's to be expected. No responses yet from China or US industry.

At the present time, it's actually far simpler and less costly for me as an individual, to do local, classroom seminars. If I can obtain video, (better) computer and comm equipment, this may turn into a more webinar and video based program than I initially envisioned... at least in the sense that expansion beyond the local level might be more possible and practical.
With that thought in mind, I can write lesson plans and adult teaching guides that could be distributed freely to those interested in striking out on their own... with consistency and continuity of training being the feature of this idea. Another potential path to follow.

This being as much idea/opinion/perspective sharing session as anything... the details are far from sorted. Our conversations are providing plenty of ideas and uniquely qualified volunteers... so thanks to one and all.

 

[milescadre]

My local shop doesnt recommend sub ohming on anything other than VTC4/5 batteries, and has on a couple occasions denied sale of 18350 mods to those with 0.2 ohm ambitions.

That desnt mean they dont do it themselves, but at least they make sure the customer is knowledgable.

I always impress them tho when I tell em my silver dog is 1.5 ohms and makes big clouds