ElectroGeek13's Ultimate DIY Expierence. My journey through learning the perfect DIY process.

[electrogeek13]

Hey guys i am going to stop posting in my old thread here, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...y-setup-suggestions-comments-appreciated.html .

DISCLAIMER i am not a registered vendor. Therefore any reference i make to these juices being for people is because i give them to my friends to convince them to stop smoking analogues. Just so the mods are aware, if i decide to vend i will take the proper steps to be able to do so here on ECF. I will not break the rules here. Thank you!

This is the new thread, all of my stuff has come in and i have started experimenting today with my magnetic stir plate/flask method for breathing/heat steeping. My poor stir bar has not come in yet so i am just doing a 10ml experimental batch today with some basic TFA RY4 double flavor. I am doing 10%F with a 70/30 mix at 24mg.

The stir plate is working amazingly. The picture below is a 50ml Erlenmeyer from RTSVapes with approx 10ml of juice in it. The quality of the flask is decent. The 100ml flask however is of excellent quality and is very thick walled. I did not have the right drill bit to put a vent tube in the stopper yet but i however did get a hole into it for breathing.

In this picture the juice was heated on the hot plate until i was satisfied it was properly thinned out. The bar is about 3/4in long by 1/4in thick and is spinning at approx 2500RPM maybe a little less due to the stress of the fan motor. I am pretty sure i should have ordered a 3/4in stir bar after i saw these results instead of a 3/8, but oh well live and learn i guess. the juice does not really rise more than an inch or so.



I am vaping as i go with a 510 bridgeless dripper. I mixed, heated till thin once, stirred till cool and vaped. It was BAD! I noticed when i pull the stopper the flask still reeks of nicotine and no sweet/caramel smell is present. so i repeated to process for about 45 min. Took off the stir plate and let breathe for about 45min while i went to the gym. when i came back most of the nicotine smell was gone but there is no sweetness coming through yet. My roommate says the juice smells good, but i disagree so far. only time will tell.

 

[Chas_L]

No experience with TFA (WL) RY4 Double but regular TFA RY4 is plenty strong at 4% and I like stronger flavors than most.

 

[Road_House]

I've mixed TFA RY4 Double at 10%. It smells quite pungent immediately after mixing but mellows with time. It's not that sweet without added sweetener even at 50/50. Since VG is naturally sweet to a degree, your 30% VG mix would be less sweet. That's my experience anyway. YMMV

Your nicotine should be odorless which makes me wonder if the hot plate may have been too much heat. Try sitting your beaker in a bowl of hot tap water to thin it for mixing. That should do the job especially with a 70/30 mix which is not that thick to begin with.

Some people would find 70% PG to be harsh or irritating as well (on top of the high nic level of 24 mg/ml) so if you notice that, cut back on the PG. For me, I shoot for around 4% distilled water or saline and PG in the low 40's with the rest VG. That seemed to smooth the vape out nicely and give it more natural sweetness and thicker vapor from the increased VG.

Have fun and let us know how you make out.

 

[electrogeek13]

I've mixed TFA RY4 Double at 10%. It smells quite pungent immediately after mixing but mellows with time. It's not that sweet without added sweetener even at 50/50. Since VG is naturally sweet to a degree, your 30% VG mix would be less sweet. That's my experience anyway. YMMV

Your nicotine should be odorless which makes me wonder if the hot plate may have been too much heat. Try sitting your beaker in a bowl of hot tap water to thin it for mixing. That should do the job especially with a 70/30 mix which is not that thick to begin with.

Some people would find 70% PG to be harsh or irritating as well (on top of the high nic level of 24 mg/ml) so if you notice that, cut back on the PG. For me, I shoot for around 4% distilled water or saline and PG in the low 40's with the rest VG. That seemed to smooth the vape out nicely and give it more natural sweetness and thicker vapor from the increased VG.

Have fun and let us know how you make out.

i was unaware that the nicotine should be completely odorless. is it still odorless even in 100mg/ml? I just got a 250ml bottle of 100mg from RTS vapes and the nicotine does have an odor right from the bottle. If the bottle sits closed for awhile the odor is rather strong, but once i blow off the air in the top the odor is almost completely unnoticeable. is this normal?

I was also thinking hot plate too hot maybe, but then again i only let it sit on it for 30 seconds or so till the juice thins out enough. It's just much easier than re-heating water all the time.

I was pretty much under the impression that maybe i used too much flavor, and i am also aware that 24mg is really high but i love a good strong vape. If in the morning after spinning and breathing all night if something is still wrong i will adjust i think. Now i am suspect of my nic, i was hoping RTS would have been a really good bet though....I will titrate the nic tomorrow and see what i find that may also be interesting.

 

[Hoosier]

With that much heat and air to start I would thought you wanted the bitter to overshadow the sweet.

Heat and oxygen are great ways to put bitter into a nic mix.

 

[electrogeek13]

With that much heat and air to start I would thought you wanted the bitter to overshadow the sweet.

Heat and oxygen are great ways to put bitter into a nic mix.

Interesting that does make sense. i thought the whole point of this was to evaporate any ethyl alcohol and unwanted solvents and to oxygenate the nic to bind all of the flavors. Maybe this theory only holds true for some flavors?

Is it too much heat just to sit it on the hot plate at the lowest setting until the juice thins? I am very sure it isn't any hotter than dunking it into microwaved water although i have not actually used a thermo to verify this.

your advice is greatly appreciated. eventually i will get this. I still have alot of blogs to read too that i haven't gotten to as a result of being very busy at work. I am used to regular chem reactions e.g. this plus this when this catalyst is added equals X type stuff. Flavorings however i have not much experience with.

 

[Hoosier]

I have a few dozen recipes that are great. Less than a handful need steeping, that's a closed bottle that just sits for awhile. One needs some air and that's only for a few hours. None need heat and some get worse with heat and no air. All will get bitter with enough air and the higher the Nic, the quicker it happens.

Dropping a bottle in hot tap water can, not always, bump start the steep, but never completed it. Heat can degrade some flavoring. (Almost always does for cinnamon for me. Heat and cinnamon just don't mix for me.)

Steeping and airing-out are things to try, not magic bullets that always work or to be used on every target. Each does something different to some mixes. If I need thinning I add PGA and don't try to take it out.

So, if I were trying to help I would ask what the mix tastes like right after it's mixed. Mix, shake, drip in your dripping atty and see. If it is close to what you are going for, then set it aside for a steep and see if anything changes. It might or it might not. IF the flavor changes, then you'll know for future mixes. If it doesn't, then you know it's a waste of time or effort in the future.

Note that I make a number of tobacco flavors with complex notes and only one requires steeping to be great. And that one can only get a boost to reduce steeping time with a seed steep. The seed steep cuts one week off the time for that recipe. (It's the only recipe I have that is nasty when first mixed too so it's a real odd one...unique to my recipe stable even...and I'm vaping it now of all things...)

 

[electrogeek13]

I have a few dozen recipes that are great. Less than a handful need steeping, that's a closed bottle that just sits for awhile. One needs some air and that's only for a few hours. None need heat and some get worse with heat and no air. All will get bitter with enough air and the higher the Nic, the quicker it happens.

Dropping a bottle in hot tap water can, not always, bump start the steep, but never completed it. Heat can degrade some flavoring. (Almost always does for cinnamon for me. Heat and cinnamon just don't mix for me.)

Steeping and airing-out are things to try, not magic bullets that always work or to be used on every target. Each does something different to some mixes. If I need thinning I add PGA and don't try to take it out.

So, if I were trying to help I would ask what the mix tastes like right after it's mixed. Mix, shake, drip in your dripping atty and see. If it is close to what you are going for, then set it aside for a steep and see if anything changes. It might or it might not. IF the flavor changes, then you'll know for future mixes. If it doesn't, then you know it's a waste of time or effort in the future.

Note that I make a number of tobacco flavors with complex notes and only one requires steeping to be great. And that one can only get a boost to reduce steeping time with a seed steep. The seed steep cuts one week off the time for that recipe. (It's the only recipe I have that is nasty when first mixed too so it's a real odd one...unique to my recipe stable even...and I'm vaping it now of all things...)

Thank you sir. i am going to try to make 5ml of some TFA french pipe because it smells delicious. I am thinking i will start with 2% and slowly work my way up until i get a good tobacco flavor. Then maybe add some caramel or vanilla or peach or something if i desire.

I am pretty sure i had the wrong ideas about mixing certain juices and i will just scrap this RY4 batch and try it again later.

 

[electrogeek13]

Okay i have become humble and learned that i need to forget alot of things i thought i knew about this process. I have managed to make 2 successful simple juices that turned out really well last night.

The first was a tribecca clone that i found a recipe for here on ECF somewhere,
8% TFA RY4 double
.75 AP
20MG 70/30 mix.

I simply mixed the chems in a bottle, ran under some warm not hot water and SHOOK! like crazy for about 5min. The juice was VERY tasty and my roommate concurs. I am vaping it right now! But what i did notice that over night with the juice sitting capped the flavor changed a bit. The RY4 has become more prominent and the AP has toned down quite a bit. I am slightly less satisfied with this than i was last night. I am thinking about upping to 1% AP and letting sit over night in the future and seeing what happens! I am also thinking about adding a few percentage points worth of caramel.

The second juice i made was something i will hereby call, SVP (simple vanilla pipe tobacco). closely named after my beloved SVD!

This is what i used,
3% French pipe tobacco
5% french vanilla
20MG 70/30 mix.

First i mixed the batch with just the 3% french pipe. I simply mixed slightly warmed and SHOOK! It was a nice full rich tobacco flavor. When i vaped it i though maybe some essence of molassas or maple, a simple sweetness. Not too harsh. I wanted to go further so i simply added 5% French vanilla. Mixed slightly warmed and SHOOK again. Of course this will throw the nic content off a slight bit but that's okay for now. This really evened out the flavor and my friend loved it when he tried it! I would like to find a way to really bring out the vanilla while keeping the tobacco flavor in tact. I am thinking about changing to 7% vanilla and if i have to after ill add another .5-1% tobacco flavor. Maybe this is a recipe where some EM will come in handy? From what i read this is a situation where this could help? What do you guys think?

I will be posting all of my experiments here for others to use and modify and do with what they will. I will make sure to post details of what i did and be sure to report any FAILS too!

I want to say that everyone here on the forums has been really kind and good to me, offering great suggestions! Hopefully through my DIY journey i will be able to give something back to the people making it possible for me.

 

[Hoosier]

Not getting the desired result is my best learning tool. Without it I wouldn't have learned a thing.

But it's great that you are getting some good vapable juice now. That makes any number of poor results worth the effort.

 

[electrogeek13]

Not getting the desired result is my best learning tool. Without it I wouldn't have learned a thing.

But it's great that you are getting some good vapable juice now. That makes any number of poor results worth the effort.

you are correct sir. This is the reason i purchased enough supplies to make a USgal of juice lol.

I think the best simple lesson i have learned so far is that flavoring must be done in SMALL increments. I can always add flavor but i can never remove it from a batch. I also have learned to add flavors one at a time for instance, having a bad RY4 and saying well ive read that this may do it. Therefore adding some molassas and EM at the same time leaves me stumped as to what each individual chem is doing, therefore if it's still garbage then in the garbage can it has to go....

 

[dannyv45]

I've mixed TFA RY4 Double at 10%. It smells quite pungent immediately after mixing but mellows with time. It's not that sweet without added sweetener even at 50/50. Since VG is naturally sweet to a degree, your 30% VG mix would be less sweet. That's my experience anyway. YMMV

Your nicotine should be odorless which makes me wonder if the hot plate may have been too much heat. Try sitting your beaker in a bowl of hot tap water to thin it for mixing. That should do the job especially with a 70/30 mix which is not that thick to begin with.

Some people would find 70% PG to be harsh or irritating as well (on top of the high nic level of 24 mg/ml) so if you notice that, cut back on the PG. For me, I shoot for around 4% distilled water or saline and PG in the low 40's with the rest VG. That seemed to smooth the vape out nicely and give it more natural sweetness and thicker vapor from the increased VG.

Have fun and let us know how you make out.

I agree that 70/30 may be a bit harsh I myself just switch from a 75/25 to a 50/50 because when I was a smoker 75/25 was a good throat hit. But now that I've been smoke free for 6 months I find it far to harsh and went to 50/50 and reduced my NIC from 24 to 18. When I did that the flavors really came through

 

[dannyv45]

Interesting that does make sense. i thought the whole point of this was to evaporate any ethyl alcohol and unwanted solvents and to oxygenate the nic to bind all of the flavors. Maybe this theory only holds true for some flavors?

Is it too much heat just to sit it on the hot plate at the lowest setting until the juice thins? I am very sure it isn't any hotter than dunking it into microwaved water although i have not actually used a thermo to verify this.

I would not exceed 120F with heat. And as stated when NIC is exposed to the air it accelerates oxidation which is not desirable.

 

[FinallyQuit]

My 50/50 liquids get mixed, shaken, sampled for flavor, noted and put in a box. Time and inattention until I look at it one day and decide to try it again, usually the next week. More sampling, more noting.

I do not use heat or hot water baths, just because it's not convenient for me. I'm all about simple and convenient.

Good luck!

 

[dannyv45]

you are correct sir. This is the reason i purchased enough supplies to make a USgal of juice lol.

I think the best simple lesson i have learned so far is that flavoring must be done in SMALL increments. I can always add flavor but i can never remove it from a batch. I also have learned to add flavors one at a time for instance, having a bad RY4 and saying well ive read that this may do it. Therefore adding some molassas and EM at the same time leaves me stumped as to what each individual chem is doing, therefore if it's still garbage then in the garbage can it has to go....

This is why it's important to mix single flavors and taste them. It gives you an idea on what the individual components taste like and gives you an idea on what may be good combinations.

Also steeping is really just using common sense. I just added to my blog and will give you the excerp.

Should I or should I not steep?

Steeping is an important part of the mixing process but steeping may not be necessary in all situations. The time it takes to steep is really only learned by experience. Whether steeping is necessary is up to the individual's taste buds. I can see where confusion to new mixers comes from with all the conflicting advice given and I for one am guilty of feeding into it. The best advice that can really be given is to let your taste buds guide you. If it taste good right after mixing then don't steep and just vape. If the flavor is off or it's to strong or to weak don't just assume you over or under flavored and don't attempt to adjust the mix. Give it a day or 2 of just sitting then try it again. If after a few days the flavor improves then give it a little more time. If it's still off or there is no improvement then it could need some adjustment. Only experience can tell you what’s right and what's not.

 

[electrogeek13]

I agree that 70/30 may be a bit harsh I myself just switch from a 75/25 to a 50/50 because when I was a smoker 75/25 was a good throat hit. But now that I've been smoke free for 6 months I find it far to harsh and went to 50/50 and reduced my NIC from 24 to 18. When I did that the flavors really came through

Yeah i still use 70/30 but i dropped my nic to about 20MG. Things went much better after that.

 

[electrogeek13]

I would not exceed 120F with heat. And as stated when NIC is exposed to the air it accelerates oxidation which is not desirable.

Thanks again danny. I am thinking this, i will just use the stirrer without heat and make sure it is fully capped to prevent over oxidation to my nic IF my juice needs steeping ONLY. I might just pull the stopper to let it breathe once in awhile. If i am grasping this concept correctly the actual stirring or (molecules rapidly colliding with each other lol) is what creates the steep. Not necessarily heat or oxygen, and it should really only need to breathe if there is ethanol or other unwanted solvents in my flavoring that need to evaporate?

so in essence my goal is not to actually be removing any unnecessary compounds from these juices, but more so making sure all the compounds in the juice are being thoroughly bonded together.

I will also probably use this method to mix large batches eg, 30-100ml, but just cap the flask maybe use tiny amount of heat and let sit for 3-5min max.

 

[electrogeek13]

I have revised my SVP a little bit, it now contains,
3% french pipe
7.5% french vanilla
1% EM
20MG 70/30

For me it is EXCELLENT!

 

[dannyv45]

Thanks again danny. I am thinking this, i will just use the stirrer without heat and make sure it is fully capped to prevent over oxidation to my nic IF my juice needs steeping ONLY. I might just pull the stopper to let it breathe once in awhile. If i am grasping this concept correctly the actual stirring or (molecules rapidly colliding with each other lol) is what creates the steep. Not necessarily heat or oxygen, and it should really only need to breathe if there is ethanol or other unwanted solvents in my flavoring that need to evaporate?

so in essence my goal is not to actually be removing any unnecessary compounds from these juices, but more so making sure all the compounds in the juice are being thoroughly bonded together.

I will also probably use this method to mix large batches eg, 30-100ml, but just cap the flask maybe use tiny amount of heat and let sit for 3-5min max.

To be honest I never saw the novelty of letting it breath and I usually don't unless there's a really strong chemical odor. The ethanol never really mattered to me and I found it usually goes away quickly on it's own with no breathing.

 

[Road_House]

Yeah i still use 70/30 but i dropped my nic to about 20MG. Things went much better after that

Try 45/50 with 5% distilled water. You may be pleasantly surprised unless you like the big throat hit.

Can one of you guys explain how to get the "originally posted by" part to show up when you do a quote? I have not figured that out.