em-riva weird dead batteries!

[EMRocks]

I still use the same two riva sets that came to me from the first batch of riva ever sold through eastmall. All I use are LR 510 from eastmall, and I still use the same handful I had from then as well. I've lost several attys from the batch , but in general they last me one to two months each , of course these are still from months ago.

But as for using lr atties on the riva , it's the only way to vape it. The battery power lasts me about 12 hours or so , where the standard atties go for about 24 hours for me. and the things always in my face. I rotate the four batteries , kinda.

I dont believe in dry burning them , but i do make sure there flooded always. As soon s i get a glimps of low fluid , i drip 3-5 drops. Sure , it leaks out a little , duh ? Bu with the riva it keeps it in the cone section , I just get the towel ready when the blue beacon of drained battery gets my attention and clean it. Simple.

Also keep the contacts clean , that gunk builds up between them , you cant let that happen , as moisture is a conductor.

If I'm not mistaken, some improvements were made to the protection circuit on the batteries somewhat recently. This is supposed to better protect them from leaking/shorting/exploding/what-have-you, but could also mean that this protection circuit is more easily tripped if the amount of resistance during usage is above or below what is expected. Once the protection circuit is tripped, the battery is permanently disabled as a safety precaution because once activated, the safety circuit's job is to make sure potentially damaged and thus hazardous batteries do not remain in use.

This is just my theory, and is not an official statement of cause, but it is what seems to make the most sense to me at this point from my research into this matter. We will also be working with the battery manufacturer to find out if this is indeed correct.

Any additional information anyone can provide me with here, please feel free to PM me. Rest assured I am working day and night to get to the bottom of this, and David provided me with a bulk of Riva batteries to experiment with.

 

[EMRocks]

Here's what I know so far:

1.) The majority of Riva batteries that are dying seem to be with people who are using LR atomizers on them.
2.) The protection circuit on the batteries was updated somewhat recently.
3.) People with older batteries report great longevity, even with LR atomizers.
4.) dskarpus tested one "dead" battery with a meter, and it wasn't dead at all. It was fully charged.
5.) The symptom most people are experiencing is a blinking light on a fully charged battery (looks to me like how a protection circuit might prevent operation).

This evidence seems to point to something triggering the protection circuits, which for the moment I am attributing to unexpected resistances. I would advise not to use LR atomizers (as already stated in the Riva manual) until further notice. Please read post #41 above if you haven't already done so for more info.

 

[EMRocks]

I'd also like to note that since I will be experimenting with some batteries to try to find a definite cause, I picked up a volt-ohm meter, which I have no idea how to use anymore lol (even though I graduated in 2000 from a technical school for electronics, that was almost 11 years ago), so any help from someone with experience would be greatly appreciated!

I also have a few of these "dead" ones here to mess around with, since all north american returns are made to me.

 

[clark8876]

We do not offer a Riva LR atomizer, so technically you voided your warranty, but I'm sure David and Selina will allow you to exchange them anyway. The Riva batteries are a lot more sensitive to things like short circuits, so regardless of whether the LR atomizers were defective, they shouldn't have been on a Riva to begin with, as they would not have killed a much more rugged battery like the one in the Indulgence. Mod atomizers like the LR and HV atties are meant to go on mod ecigs like Indulgence, the Riva is not a mod.

Chris.... Umm... maybe have a look at the 510 LR Atty page of the EM website. It states "It has 1.5 OHM resistance and fit the best for the Indulgence 3.7V, and Riva 3.7V." Perhaps this needs to be changed.

sunflour, I'm sure that Selina & David will look after you, I've had nothing but great service from EM.

 

[Di]

The EM LR 510 atty does fit well to the Indulgence and to the RiVa,

The Indulgence because it is a more powerful mod,
and the RiVa cos it has a battery power of more than 400mah -----
the battery mah of +400 is needed for the LR and HV attys ----
but
it is a LR atty
not a regular atty
and like the LR and HV attys -
they are not the normal and so cannot be warranted the same and so they are not

most people who decide to try the LR and HV attys realize that they are different,
and it is at your own risk that you use them.

They get normally only a 7 day DOA warranty for this very reason.

 

[clark8876]

they are not the normal and so cannot be warranted the same and so they are not

most people who decide to try the LR and HV attys realize that they are different,
and it is at your own risk that you use them.

They get normally only a 7 day DOA warranty for this very reason.

Di, I believe you are referring to the LR atomisers not the batteries. I have no issue with the risk of LR atty's and the warranty that applies to LR's.

However, as Chris points out in post #30, the instructions with the standard Riva Kit state that LR atty's should not be used with the device, yet the LR atty page on the website states that they are suitable for use with the Riva (my post #44). The two statements contradict each other and that's why I suggested that the website statement may need a review.

I also agree with MWA in post #27, it is not about maH but the amperage draw of LR atty's and the battery's ability to handle that amperage draw.

Anyway, I speak from the experience of losing 7 Riva & eGo batteries, new and months old, when I used LR atty's over a period of 7 days.

Cheers

 

[mwa102464]

EMRocks, As for your voltmeter here is how to use it properly to get the correct readings. with Batts = place the red lead to the flat spot at the bottom of the inside of the threads this would be the positive side of the battery. take your Black lead and touch it to your Battery threads on the outside of them this would be your ground or Neg side. set your Meter to the 20 on the v~ this will give you the the proper Voltage output of your battery. You should find on a fully charged Riva 901 your reading will be 3.8 something I believe and on a Riva 510 I believe you will get a readout somewhere around 3.4v-3.5v

Next on to Attys touch your leads the same way, stick your red lead into the hole of the center pin and touch your black to the threads, Set your meter to the 200 where the ohm graphic is that looks like an upside down horse shoe. This will then give you the resistance of you Attys. You will have to minus your internal resistance from your reading most likely, how you do this is to touch you two leads together, whatever that resistance reading is you minus fro the reading you get when checking your Attys resistance, some newer Voltmeters give you the internal resistance on your LED readout when you turn your meter to the ohm setting, so if you see say a 1 when you turn to ohm's you know your internal resistance is then 1.

What you are going to find is just as I have been saying that LR Attys draw more Amps, however you would also need a special set up to test this while under load which you may not have. the LR Atty draws closer to somewhere around 2 Amps where your Reg EM Riva Atty will draw somewhere around 1 Amp. This is simply the reason that these batteries fail, they are severely over stressed when using an LR Atty you make them draw 2 Amps using an LR Atty compared to drawing 1 Amp with a reg Atty. There is nothing you will ever be able to change as long as this Mosfit style battery is used making the Riva ECig's.

I have been asking for a long time for someone to use or make a Riva type battery with a very good quality IMR Battery like an AW 14500 say. AW batteries are Panasonic who is a leader in the battery world and the have a guy who makes these AW'S to his specs and then they are called an AW battery basically this is how that works but I still ask, (David) can you hear me David, hahahha I know you can,, chuckle chuckle can you have a Riva type E-Cig made for all of us who love using the LR Atty with a Quality type (AW) IMR battery instead of this Mosfit type of battery. I understand it would be a little bit more but I and many other I believe who use the LR Atty's would be willing to pay for this type of E-Cig that was built properly to run the LR Atty's

Bottom line is until this IMR Type Battery is made in an E-Cig LR type Attys will continue to overstress these Riva style Mosfit batteries and they will continue to fail. Sometimes I think the manufacturers know this and know that the customers will have to buy more batteries and thus the reason they dont build the Riva batt with the IMR, but wouldn't it be nice if they did give us an IMR in a Riva type product, if anyone can do it I think I know who could (David) hahah

 

[Di]

well, this just goes to show once again ----
I should keep quiet when it comes wattage and voltage cos I know absolutely nothing about it - lol


I will leave it to the smarter guys like mwa and willie and the others who know something about it !!

 

[mwa102464]

I really wished that this business would lean towards using Watts more so then anything else, ask a guy how many amps his stereo is ? clueless, ask him how many Volts his stereo is ? clueless, ask him how many Watts he's pushing and he will be all over it and tell you exactly. The first to come out with a digital readout on the PV with a watts reading will be a leader ! I would really love to see EM come out with a Variable Voltage PV with an Auto feed system that has an LED on it and it gave readings when you adjusted the VV so you new your exact ohms,volts,watts, this is coming very soon, another company I wont mention the name is almost ready to release it, as well as some others working on this so where going to be seeing some pretty cool Mods in 2011, This leads me to my main question, being, is EM planing on releasing any type of new mods for the 2011 yr with VV and a juice holding & delivery system combination, like some kind of smart Mod ? These are going to be our future in vaping I believe and I would love to see EM more into these custom Mods. Especially since they are a leader in the Industry. I would also think with all the electronics that are made in China these days that EM would be all over this type of Mod for it's customers, I see all these American company's building some really nice Mods these days but none coming from China, WHY ??? only these small little E-cigs and the same types of Mosfit style Batts, when there are PCB circuits available and all these newer style smart chips that can do so many things these days. I have to ask as well as make a push for this type of Mod to be built from EM

 

[EMRocks]

Chris.... Umm... maybe have a look at the 510 LR Atty page of the EM website. It states "It has 1.5 OHM resistance and fit the best for the Indulgence 3.7V, and Riva 3.7V." Perhaps this needs to be changed.

sunflour, I'm sure that Selina & David will look after you, I've had nothing but great service from EM.

Yes, I believe the Riva reference on the 510LR page is a typographical error, and will speak with David about having it removed. The best practices for use of any device will always be to refer to the instructions that are outlined in the manual that comes with it, as written by the manufacturer.

Thanks for noticing this and pointing it out to us.

 

[Ghostsamurai25]

Thanks for the tip on the lr atties, I have a feeling thats what blew out four of my riva batts.
Is there a way to make them work again?

 

[Di]

Thanks for the tip on the lr atties, I have a feeling thats what blew out four of my riva batts.
Is there a way to make them work again?

hmmmmmmmmmmm,

I think if the batteries are blown, they are done, - Kaput !! I think --

 

[clark8876]

Thanks for the tip on the lr atties, I have a feeling thats what blew out four of my riva batts.
Is there a way to make them work again?

From experience, it's usually the mosfet (the little chip under the switch) that goes, not the actual battery itself.

However, I have never been able to repair one so as Di says "kaput".

 

[Di]

Thanks for that helpful comments, Clark,

I do appreciate all the help you guys give to others in here,
especially when it is a subject I know little and or nothing about -- lol -----


Ghostsamurai25
as I said, please contact Selina to discuss this battery issue with her ----