Email I got from my manager

[wv2win]

It's a good example. Nicotine has been linked to neurological dangers, people can suffer from an severe allergic reaction to PG and there is still exposure to toxins with the use of ecigs. This data refutes any claim that vaping is unharmful.

You need to show us your MD and Phd credentials and the studies that show that the trace elements of PG and nicotine exhaled while vaping, pose a medical threat to others. When respected doctors such as Dr Michael Seigel, Dr Murray Laugesen and long time anti-smoking experts like Bill Godshaw state the exact opposite of your comments and provide real studies to support their position, I am more inclined to believe them than someone posting on ECF who provides no facts as it relates to vaping.

You should join ASH, they would love to have someone who supposidly vapes and states that vaping is a dangerours activity and needs to be banned and/or severely restricted.

 

[look30]

Always remember, the bathroom is your vaping hideout.

Completely agree , things might smell good to you but might not be enjoyable for others.

There is another Kumbaya type of approach among some vapers that the vape is completely harmless which might or might not be true.
To date there is 0 regulation of what can be put in your juice and based on a recent experience I found out that even the juice
providers have no clue what's in it .

I do NOT vape in closed public spaces without asking permission, NEVER vape when kids are around as in the car with me or even same room and definitely don't blow my vapor on people around me .

My dog HATES the vape so that's a good indicator that the PG or VG or Nic or some other ingredients bothers her.

 

[soba1]

U know this just chaps my hide.
There are so many more thing to worry about other than nicotene.
I don't see the big uproar about GMO foods.
Unecessary soy additives in our food.
Stuff being labeled organic when it isn't.
So much more, imo nicotene secondhand smoke is just
a smoke screen,,,,
My rant is over.........

 

[soba1]

Possible side effect from vaping it may increase libido....

 

[tcgenius]

People that don't wear deodorant pose a larger threat to public well being

Yes, a lot of workplaces are like this. You can still wear deodorant and products, but they have to be fragrance free.

 

[tj99959]

U know this just chaps my hide.
There are so many more thing to worry about other than nicotene.
I don't see the big uproar about GMO foods.
Unecessary soy additives in our food.
Stuff being labeled organic when it isn't.
So much more, imo nicotene secondhand smoke is just
a smoke screen,,,,
My rant is over.........

Did you know that that the two most harmful substances, when abused, are salt & sugar? More people die from salt & sugar related illnesses in one day than die from cigarette smoking illnesses in a year.

 

[wv2win]

Completely agree , things might smell good to you but might not be enjoyable for others.

There is another Kumbaya type of approach among some vapers that the vape is completely harmless which might or might not be true.
To date there is 0 regulation of what can be put in your juice and based on a recent experience I found out that even the juice
providers have no clue what's in it .

I do NOT vape in closed public spaces without asking permission, NEVER vape when kids are around as in the car with me or even same room and definitely don't blow my vapor on people around me .

My dog HATES the vape so that's a good indicator that the PG or VG or Nic or some other ingredients bothers her.

Let's don't confuse vaping respectfully, which many of us advocate, with vaping only with smokers and acting like we are smoking as some advocate. The odd instance where a "whiff" of vapor may bother someone is comparable to someone's perfume bothering someone. Mildly unpleasant but not dangerous.

Vaping openly but respectfully is a good course of action.

 

[soba1]

Did you know that that the two most harmful substances, when abused, are salt & sugar? More people die from salt & sugar related illnesses in one day than die from cigarette smoking illnesses in a year.

Yeah; I consume a lot of sugar. But u are sooooooooooooooooooooooo making me wanna get back on my high horse again.

 

[soba1]

Let's don't confuse vaping respectfully, which many of us advocate, with vaping only with smokers and acting like we are smoking as some advocate. The odd instance where a "whiff" of vapor may bother someone is comparable to someone's perfume bothering someone. Mildly unpleasant but not dangerous.

Vaping openly but respectfully is a good course of action.

Wtih that I will have to agree.
But some people/sheeple uninformed making a mountain out of a molehill.
Just ooooo man

 

[soba1]

Ok now I must breathe and sing kumbaya

 

[Emtbreid]

I'm relatively new to the vaping world, just barely 24 hours w/out an analog. I work in a 911 dispatch center that is a completely smoke free zone(the grounds included, with the exception of your personal vehicle). With 9-14 of us working at any given time (majority of those people being smokers),and up to two of us going out for 10 minutes at a time every two hours, imagine the productivity lost. I think vaping in the office is a little far fetched, but being able to do so outside (not in your vehicle) or in an unoccupied part of the building would be reasonable. Still waiting on an answer from my manager regarding this. I've looked at our county's tobacco/smoking policy and e-cigs aren't mentioned.

 

[wv2win]

I'm relatively new to the vaping world, just barely 24 hours w/out an analog. I work in a 911 dispatch center that is a completely smoke free zone(the grounds included, with the exception of your personal vehicle). With 9-14 of us working at any given time (majority of those people being smokers),and up to two of us going out for 10 minutes at a time every two hours, imagine the productivity lost. I think vaping in the office is a little far fetched, but being able to do so outside (not in your vehicle) or in an unoccupied part of the building would be reasonable. Still waiting on an answer from my manager regarding this. I've looked at our county's tobacco/smoking policy and e-cigs aren't mentioned.

I would suggest you go to CASAA (and please join!!!!!) and download information from their site on the safety of vaping. Just click on the banner at the bottom of this post.

 

[jerzi]

You need to show us your MD and Phd credentials and the studies that show that the trace elements of PG and nicotine exhaled while vaping, pose a medical threat to others. When respected doctors such as Dr Michael Seigel, Dr Murray Laugesen and long time anti-smoking experts like Bill Godshaw state the exact opposite of your comments and provide real studies to support their position, I am more inclined to believe them than someone posting on ECF who provides no facts as it relates to vaping.

You should join ASH, they would love to have someone who supposidly vapes and states that vaping is a dangerours activity and needs to be banned and/or severely restricted.

You debated the fact that they aren't harmful in any way, and from the studies done that you told me to go look up, you have proved yourself incorrect. I enjoy vaping and plan to stand behind it as a great alternative for smoking.

A group of scientists from the United States, Poland and UK set out to evaluate the chemical nature of electronic cigarette vapor, concentrating on four groups of potentially toxic and carcinogenic compounds: carbonyls, volatile organic compounds, nitrosamines and heavy metals. Before we dive deeper into the details of this research, it’s worth noting that this was an independent study funded by Poland’s Ministry of Science and Higher Education and the National Institutes of Health, which adds credibility and objectivity.

To test chemical levels in exhaled vapor, researchers used 12 different brands of electronic cigarettes, and a medical nicotine inhaler as reference product. Testing was done in controlled conditions using a modified smoking machine, and the toxic compounds were extracted from vapors into a solid or liquid phase and analysed with chromatographic and spectroscopy methods. Test results showed levels of selected toxic compounds found in tobacco cigarette smoke were between 9 and 450 times higher that the levels found in e-cig vapor. Quantities of acrolein, a known oxidant and respiratory irritant believed to also contribute to various cardiovascular conditions associated with smoking, were found to be 15 times lower in e-cigarette vapor compared to tobacco smoke.

However, there was some concerning data regarding the level of formaldehyde found among the 12 brands of electronic cigarettes, which ranged from just 3.2 micrograms per 150 puffs to 56.1 micrograms per 150 puffs. While the minimum amount overlaps with that found in medicinal inhalers, the considerable difference between the tested brands is somewhat concerning. Formaldehyde may result from the heating of propylene glycol or the oxidation or hydrolysis of glycerin, and while it doesn’t pose significant danger in low levels, it can be lethal in high concentrations. As Doctor Michael Siegel notes on his blog, this study presents the FDA with the opportunity “to examine the reasons for these significant differences and hopefully, to find ways to produce e-cigarette liquid that does not produce high levels of formaldehyde”. It’s important to understand that while this international study clearly demonstrates that e-cigarettes are safer than analogs, it also proves they are not safe in an absolute sense.

 

[tj99959]

You debated the fact that they aren't harmful in any way, and from the studies done that you told me to go look up, you have proved yourself incorrect. I enjoy vaping and plan to stand behind it as a great alternative for smoking.

A group of scientists from the United States, Poland and UK set out to evaluate the chemical nature of electronic cigarette vapor, concentrating on four groups of potentially toxic and carcinogenic compounds: carbonyls, volatile organic compounds, nitrosamines and heavy metals. Before we dive deeper into the details of this research, it’s worth noting that this was an independent study funded by Poland’s Ministry of Science and Higher Education and the National Institutes of Health, which adds credibility and objectivity.

To test chemical levels in exhaled vapor, researchers used 12 different brands of electronic cigarettes, and a medical nicotine inhaler as reference product. Testing was done in controlled conditions using a modified smoking machine, and the toxic compounds were extracted from vapors into a solid or liquid phase and analysed with chromatographic and spectroscopy methods. Test results showed levels of selected toxic compounds found in tobacco cigarette smoke were between 9 and 450 times higher that the levels found in e-cig vapor. Quantities of acrolein, a known oxidant and respiratory irritant believed to also contribute to various cardiovascular conditions associated with smoking, were found to be 15 times lower in e-cigarette vapor compared to tobacco smoke.

However, there was some concerning data regarding the level of formaldehyde found among the 12 brands of electronic cigarettes, which ranged from just 3.2 micrograms per 150 puffs to 56.1 micrograms per 150 puffs. While the minimum amount overlaps with that found in medicinal inhalers, the considerable difference between the tested brands is somewhat concerning. Formaldehyde may result from the heating of propylene glycol or the oxidation or hydrolysis of glycerin, and while it doesn’t pose significant danger in low levels, it can be lethal in high concentrations. As Doctor Michael Siegel notes on his blog, this study presents the FDA with the opportunity “to examine the reasons for these significant differences and hopefully, to find ways to produce e-cigarette liquid that does not produce high levels of formaldehyde”. It’s important to understand that while this international study clearly demonstrates that e-cigarettes are safer than analogs, it also proves they are not safe in an absolute sense.

Being outside and breathing is also not safe in an "absolute sense".

Vaping is commonly referred to as "harm reduction", not "harm elimination". So in that sense you are correct.

 

[jerzi]

Being outside and breathing is also not safe in an "absolute sense".

Vaping is commonly referred to as "harm reduction", not "harm elimination". So in that sense you are correct.

Agreed. I'm all for people using ecigs as a healthier alternative to traditional smoking, but trying to say there is absolutely no potential for harm from them or with second hand vapor is a bit misleading without conclusive long term studies done.

 

[tj99959]

There's only one problem with long term studies, they always seem to take ... well ... long term.
So I guess we will just have to wait and check back to see the results in about 20 years.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

Dr. Mike and those suspecting PG in the formation of formaldehyde appear to be wrong. The particular study mentioned here does not specify the specific makeup (or PG versus glycerin content) of the liquids studied.

BUT, many of the same authors are presenting a paper at the SRNT meeting in Boston this week that DOES. And from the following it is pretty clear that indeed it is glycerin, and not PG, that is associated with formaldhyde (and acrolein) being found in vapor:

SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTION IN EMISSION OF SELECTED CARBONYLS
AND VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS FROM ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES
COMPARED TO TOBACCO CIGARETTES

Andrzej Sobczak, Ph.D.*1,2, Leon Kosmider1,2, Maciej L. Goniewicz, Ph.D.3,4, Jakub
Knysak2, Marzena Zaciera, Ph.D.5, and Jolanta Kurek5, 1Institute of Occupational
Medicine and Environmental Health, Sosnowiec, Poland; 2Medical University
of Silesia, Katowice, Poland;3Queen Mary University of London, UK; 4Roswell
Park Cancer Institute, Buffalo, USA; 5Institute of Occupational Medicine and
Environmental Health, Sosnowiec, Poland

Significance: Electronic cigarettes (ECs) are purported to deliver nicotine vapor
without any toxic substances generated from tobacco combustion. However, using
ECs involves heating a nicotine solution to high temperatures. This may induce
chemical reactions which result in the possible formation of carbonyl compounds
(CCs) and volatile organic compounds (VOCs). Many CCs and VOCs are common
tobacco-specific toxicants with proven carcinogenic and cardiotoxic properties. Aim
of the study:The aim of the study was to quantify and compare the levels of selected
CCs (formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acrolein, acetone, propanal, butanal) and VOCs
(benzene, toluene, etylobenzene and ortho-, meta-, para-xylene) in EC nicotine
refill solutions, vapors generated from ECs,and mainstream smoke from tobacco
cigarettes. Methods: Six commercially available nicotine refill solutions for ECs
(Chic Group Ltd. Poland) were examined. Three solutions contained a mixture of
propylene glycol and glycerin (Volish brand) as a solvent for nicotine, while the
other three contained only propylene glycol (Mild brand). Thirtypuffs were taken
using an automatic smoking machine. Mainstream smoke was generated from
a3R4F reference tobacco cigarette. CCs were extracted from vapor and smoke to
solid phase with 2,4-dinitrophenylhydrazine, and analyzed using HPLC/DAD. VOCs
were absorbed on activated carbon and analyzed with GC/MS. Results:Traces of
acetaldehyde were detected in all examined EC solutions(0.081±0.042 μg/mL).
Acetaldehyde was found in all EC vapors (0.153±0.116 μg/30 puffs), but at levels
more than a thousand-fold lower than in tobacco smoke. Formaldehyde and acrolein
were only found in vapors generated from glycerin-based solutions (0.116±0.022
and0.110±0.190μg/30 puffs) and in tobacco smoke (12 and 32-fold higher levels,
respectively). None of the examined VOCs were detected in the vapors, while all
were found in tobacco smoke. Conclusions: In contrast to tobacco smoke, the
vapors generated from ECs does not contain VOCs. Exposure to CCs from ECs is
significantly reduced compared to tobacco smoke and may be attributable to the
glycerin content in the nicotine refill solution.

 

[bribo54]

"Some studies have suggested that the 2nd and 3rd hand vapor from e-cigs can be
harmful." That statement makes me wonder about these "studies".

Is it third hand smoke when you vape, and someone else inhales it, and then they exhale it, and someone else inhales that?

 

[scabbytattoo]

Im navy, the army vapes all they want in there upstairs offices, this lady is just a bat. Dont really care, I still stealth vape wherever... Just cant get caught!!!!

My wife is navy and I vape anywhere on base heck I had to go to the ER the other day (kid got stupid on the swing set) and sat there in the waiting room puffing away. I did ask first so not to get my wife yelled at if it wasn't cool. I think it's the air force who says vaping is just like smoking and can only he done in designated areas.

 

[jerzi]

Dr. Mike and those suspecting PG in the formation of formaldehyde appear to be wrong. The particular study mentioned here does not specify the specific makeup (or PG versus glycerin content) of the liquids studied.

BUT, many of the same authors are presenting a paper at the SRNT meeting in Boston this week that DOES. And from the following it is pretty clear that indeed it is glycerin, and not PG, that is associated with formaldhyde (and acrolein) being found in vapor:

SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTION IN EMISSION OF SELECTED CARBONYLS
AND VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS FROM ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES
COMPARED TO TOBACCO CIGARETTES

Andrzej Sobczak, Ph.D.*1,2, Leon Kosmider1,2, Maciej L. Goniewicz, Ph.D.3,4, Jakub
Knysak2, Marzena Zaciera, Ph.D.5, and Jolanta Kurek5, 1Institute of Occupational
Medicine and Environmental Health, Sosnowiec, Poland; 2Medical University
of Silesia, Katowice, Poland;3Queen Mary University of London, UK; 4Roswell
Park Cancer Institute, Buffalo, USA; 5Institute of Occupational Medicine and
Environmental Health, Sosnowiec, Poland

Significance: Electronic cigarettes (ECs) are purported to deliver nicotine vapor
without any toxic substances generated from tobacco combustion. However, using
ECs involves heating a nicotine solution to high temperatures. This may induce
chemical reactions which result in the possible formation of carbonyl compounds
(CCs) and volatile organic compounds (VOCs). Many CCs and VOCs are common
tobacco-specific toxicants with proven carcinogenic and cardiotoxic properties. Aim
of the study:The aim of the study was to quantify and compare the levels of selected
CCs (formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acrolein, acetone, propanal, butanal) and VOCs
(benzene, toluene, etylobenzene and ortho-, meta-, para-xylene) in EC nicotine
refill solutions, vapors generated from ECs,and mainstream smoke from tobacco
cigarettes. Methods: Six commercially available nicotine refill solutions for ECs
(Chic Group Ltd. Poland) were examined. Three solutions contained a mixture of
propylene glycol and glycerin (Volish brand) as a solvent for nicotine, while the
other three contained only propylene glycol (Mild brand). Thirtypuffs were taken
using an automatic smoking machine. Mainstream smoke was generated from
a3R4F reference tobacco cigarette. CCs were extracted from vapor and smoke to
solid phase with 2,4-dinitrophenylhydrazine, and analyzed using HPLC/DAD. VOCs
were absorbed on activated carbon and analyzed with GC/MS. Results:Traces of
acetaldehyde were detected in all examined EC solutions(0.081±0.042 μg/mL).
Acetaldehyde was found in all EC vapors (0.153±0.116 μg/30 puffs), but at levels
more than a thousand-fold lower than in tobacco smoke. Formaldehyde and acrolein
were only found in vapors generated from glycerin-based solutions (0.116±0.022
and0.110±0.190μg/30 puffs) and in tobacco smoke (12 and 32-fold higher levels,
respectively). None of the examined VOCs were detected in the vapors, while all
were found in tobacco smoke. Conclusions: In contrast to tobacco smoke, the
vapors generated from ECs does not contain VOCs. Exposure to CCs from ECs is
significantly reduced compared to tobacco smoke and may be attributable to the
glycerin content in the nicotine refill solution.

Thanks for the info, so this is still a concern since glycerin content is still found in most ejuices.