You are using marginal two different ways here. I'm not limiting my comments to the US either.
Encourage or Discourage eCigs?
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You are using marginal two different ways here. I'm not limiting my comments to the US either.
I should expect no less a keen observation from a man who honors both Thucydides and Russell. Some might see that as a contradiction, whereas I see it as a logical contrast.
And to me, it is like an ex-smoker makes a decision to be a smoker again. Especially one that goes cold turkey and then starts again. Admittedly, they might not have full awareness around what that will mean for them on any given day. And once cravings are such where more than 2 hours without produces a sense of discomfort and 'neediness' then it is plausible to say this is the addiction as condition and not 'me' doing this. IMO, that is irresponsible thinking. I've been there with smoking for weeks / years on end, but when I went back it wasn't like that, at least not all the time. The addiction was there, but it still was choice each time to light up, take drags, and put out the grit. And at least some of time, it was perceived as enjoyable personal choice.
Which is why some vapers are still 1 or 2 steps away from that. I believe I could get into discussion with some vapers about going from a pack a day smoking down to 1 to 3 a day and my calling that THR, but be met with no acknowledgement of harm being reduced. I like to believe that vast majority of vapers (and/or some ex-smokers) wouldn't contend that view that I may hold. As I have experienced some vapers who are 'perfectly okay with others smoking,' then I do think there are some who would acknowledge that less smoking is understandable as THR.
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I don't agree.
And you didn't answer. How long and how much did you smoke.
And finally, I don't think you will find many vapers that say if you go from PAD to 2-3 a day that harm is not reduced. That is ridiculous.
That's okay.
Didn't feel like it was pertinent to the discussion. Am curious where you are going with that first and feel like I have idea as you already have said: The problem is that long term smokers have conditioned your brain in such a way as to find satisfaction and/or respite from tobacco. This, at least for many, doesn't go away no matter how long you go without.
As I disagree with the last statement, I realize I may be up against a sort of prejudice that says something along lines of, 'oh but Jman8 you didn't smoke long enough to have this condition that long term smokers have.'
And if my assumption is 'completely off base from what may ensue in response to that question' and if you'd be very okay just volunteering your own info in relation to that question, I think I could change my thoughts on this and respond accordingly.
I agree that vast majority of vapers would agree that going from relatively heavy smoking down to relatively moderate smoking is reduction of harm. I have run into a minority who appear to me to think otherwise. I'm guessing even those, if pressed, would confirm the harm reduction claim and plausibly go as far as saying moderate smoking is relatively harmless.
I have said before, began smoking in my teens and smoked a pack a day for over 30 years.
I do think it is relevant, particularly at what age an individual began smoking regularly and length of time.
Why exactly? Do you think the addiction and conditioning is less for some people based on when they start, how much they use, and if they go cold turkey for a period of say 9 years before age 40? If yes, how would that person's addiction be different in your opinion? Like demonstratively easier for them to quit?
Yeah, it is. I think research shows younger start ages results in greater changes in brain structures.
Also, addiction is different for each individual. The ability to go cold turkey for 9 years indicates low addiction.
Just the way it is. To apply the experience of a late smoke starter/low consumption/someone able to go cold turkey for 9 years as a general experience would not be applicable to a lot of other smokers.
There is no explained reason why one person that has been smoking for many years can just go cold turkey and never pick it up again and have no cravings. My father was one of those people, smoked way up into his 50s and one day just dropped it, walked away and never thought about it again.
Where as others that have been smoking equally as long cant just walk away but have full unadultrated withdraws and crave for it for the rest of their lives. We all know it has to do with chemicals in the brain and all that but nobody full understand why.
I am certified in smoking cessation, alot of good it did for me, even knowing how and why doesnt make a difference.
Ive had been smoking for 40 years and most of that time a pad and over. Full flavor 100s for alot of the time. I have only one time stopped for 6 months with the help of the lozenges, but when I went off the lozenges it felt every day, every hour like the first day of quiting. I couldnt do anything but think about having an analog. And the feeling was so over whelming that the first minor stressful time I went back to smoking. That was 3 years ago. I can see that in my mind its seeing the vaping is as good as smoking. The PV is now in my mind my new reality and I have no craving for an analog. Now with that being said would my brain crave the PV or analogs if I were to not vape?
Where as others that have been smoking equally as long cant just walk away but have full unadultrated withdraws and crave for it for the rest of their lives. We all know it has to do with chemicals in the brain and all that but nobody full understand why.
I am certified in smoking cessation, alot of good it did for me, even knowing how and why doesnt make a difference.
Ive had been smoking for 40 years and most of that time a pad and over. Full flavor 100s for alot of the time. I have only one time stopped for 6 months with the help of the lozenges, but when I went off the lozenges it felt every day, every hour like the first day of quiting. I couldnt do anything but think about having an analog. And the feeling was so over whelming that the first minor stressful time I went back to smoking. That was 3 years ago. I can see that in my mind its seeing the vaping is as good as smoking. The PV is now in my mind my new reality and I have no craving for an analog. Now with that being said would my brain crave the PV or analogs if I were to not vape?
Sep. 10, 2003 — Durham, N.C. -- People who begin smoking in their teens may be particularly vulnerable to long-term nicotine addiction, according to an animal study conducted by Duke University Medical Center pharmacologists. The study emphasizes that the age at which individuals begin using nicotine can have a major physiological impact to encourage later use of the drug.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030910073801.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030910073801.htm
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My father started as teen about 16 or 17 I believe and smoked into his 50s and walked away in one day. So there is something in his brain that is different than in mine or anyone elses that has long term addiction.
http://www.usl7.toscana.it/infofumo/attachments/275_cambiamenti legati all'età sul fumo.pdf
In addition to the observed age-associated patterns, the
present study showed that early smoking initiation and
increased smoking duration are significant risk factors for
high nicotine dependence. Early smoking initiation was the
main predictor of being a daily smoker and having a low
probability of smoking cessation.
35e37
In addition to the observed age-associated patterns, the
present study showed that early smoking initiation and
increased smoking duration are significant risk factors for
high nicotine dependence. Early smoking initiation was the
main predictor of being a daily smoker and having a low
probability of smoking cessation.
35e37
Yeah, everyone is different. But I really start to take offense when someone that doesn't appear to be addicted keeps claiming that nicotine isn't addicting. Maybe it isn't addictive to them, but it is pretty easy to see it is addictive to others. Their experience isn't representative of smokers in general.
In my years of helping people with smoke cessation, there were so many that had tryed to quit more that a few times and first stress they went back to smoking. I came across lots of cross section of people in the pharmacy, I taked to many that had quit with different means but even 20-30 years later craved for analogs, and it wasnt just when they were with other smokers. From what I saw there were more that had long term cravings after quiting than the ones that didnt . There were some of these long term cravers that didnt smoke for a long period of time some under 5-10 years. But most of these people that had long term craving started when they were young early 20 to late teens. My grand parents smoked but not for very long, neather of them craved after quiting. This would have been back in the 40-50s when they smoked maybe before they started adding to the analogs to keep people addicted.
Nicotine is very addictive for many many people, its been proven. Those lucky souls out there that can walk way and never think about them again are few and far between.
Nicotine is very addictive for many many people, its been proven. Those lucky souls out there that can walk way and never think about them again are few and far between.
So, then encouraging someone who is starting later in their years would plausibly be okay, as their likelihood for long term addiction would be less than a younger person? Just be sure to encourage low consumption and inform the person of going cold turkey, should the need arise, and then encouraging vaping (or even smoking) would be less of an issue, yes? To be clear, I'm not saying non-issue, but am saying less of an issue around addiction, based on what you're saying here.
Look, if you want to encourage someone to take up a potentially addictive activity, that is up to you.
Just realize, that because you don't find nicotine to be strongly addictive, doesn't mean that your victim will be so lucky.
I wouldnt want this addiction for anyone no matter what age, I cant see why anyone would. Its a crap shoot if you will be an addict the rest of your life or not. Why would anyone want that for anyone?
If there are those among us who don't appear to have the addiction, then surely there are non-users among us who if they vaped, they might be those that can't have the addiction, or at least appear like they wouldn't experience the same sort of addiction this thread has been discussing.
If someone, I knew personally, came to me and wanted to try vaping (as a non-nic user) who I knew had experiences battling with several other addictions, I'd be inclined to discourage them, and keep the discussion short. If another person I knew personally came to me and I was aware of things they've tried but never had addiction problems with, perhaps encouraging them to at least try vaping and see how much they like it, would be okay. Such a person as this would be great for the cause, I might think. The sort of people who can vape nicotine with moderation and in a responsible, not so dependable, way.
You'd have no sure fire way of guaranteeing it based on those assumptions. Playing roulette.
NO its not right or responsible to introduce anyone to nicotine that has not had it. Its a crap shoot, you do not know 100% that, that person wont get the nic monkey on there back for the rest of their life. It would be totally irresponsible. If you want to introduce them to vaping use 0nic if they want the fun of vaping.
People are introduced to alcohol every day and same thing there is a crap shoot if they become a alcoholic which is for the rest of the person life. Same with drugs or any addictive vice. I would not promote or encourage any of the above to anyone. I wouldnt want to be the one to distroy their life.
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