so i just got a batch of ethanol based flavoring and mixed up and all the fun stuff i ran 2 tanks of 2 difrent flavors in my tfv12 and the refilling oring the big white one when i opened it it just shrevelled and the oring on the rba swell up to twice its size and it leaked of course i am storing the bottles in 50 ml bottles with approximatly 40 mls of juice how long should i let it sit with the top open to let the ethanol evaporate
ethanol based diy juice
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I am guessing that it has less to do with the ethanol, and more to do with other components that make up the specific flavors. Certain flavors, like many "cinnamons," TFA's Ripe Banana & Pineapple, along with a long list of others, can be hard on plastics and rubber. These are commonly referred to as "tank crackers" in the vaping community. There have been several threads on ECF that have tried to compile lists of these. You might wish to do a couple of searches.
If you share the specific manufacture(s), and flavor(s), you are using; we might be better equipped to tell you what is going on.
Also; high ethanol content can be an indicator of oil-based flavors. Oil-based flavors, which are not soluble in water/PG/VG (and used as the "carrier," or "dilutant"), can be soluble in ethanol. Oil, besides being generally recognized as being bad to inhale (OK to eat and drink; but not OK to vape), can also be hard on some plastics and rubber.
If you share the specific manufacture(s), and flavor(s), you are using; we might be better equipped to tell you what is going on.
Also; high ethanol content can be an indicator of oil-based flavors. Oil-based flavors, which are not soluble in water/PG/VG (and used as the "carrier," or "dilutant"), can be soluble in ethanol. Oil, besides being generally recognized as being bad to inhale (OK to eat and drink; but not OK to vape), can also be hard on some plastics and rubber.
they say on the sale side that they partly dissolve in water. they do comply with the regulations
the ethanol flavorigs i have taste 10 times better than the normal i have and i use half the flavor to make it pop
its a danish company called bolsjehuset that make the flavorings
i just read a bit more and as i understand it ethanol in e juice is considered safe
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Nude Nicotine flavors are VG/ethyl alcohol based.
I have no problem with them, if breathed overnight.
[Concentrated Flavorings] - Nude Nicotine
I have no problem with them, if breathed overnight.
[Concentrated Flavorings] - Nude Nicotine
I have a TFV4 and use ethanol based DIYNETs and havent noticed any issues... what flavors are you using?
awesome Mandarin Goby there... be careful that nothing scares it, it will slime the tank and damage other fish...
Thanks (and good identification
); but I don't have an aquarium. I got to scuba dive with them, a couple of years ago, while I was visiting the Philippines.
i have some fruity flavors like pineapple and orange and exotic
It is the "partly dissolve in water" part that concerns me. This commonly indicates the use of oil and/or oil extracts. Oil is safe for ingestion (eating and drinking), but is NOT safe for inhalation (breathing and vaping). The tissues in the lungs can not absorb the oil, nor can the oil be expelled; so it just clings to the surface, inhibiting the transfer of oxygen, and trapping other foreign material which can lead to infection and other complications.
Like most things we vape, no one (including me) knows how much is okay, before we begin risking our health. I am NOT saying "don't vape these flavors" because I don't know. I am only suggesting, that you might want to do some additional research, and make your own informed decision.
its a danish company called bolsjehuset that make the flavorings[/QUOTE]
They look like they primarily market to confectioners (candy makers). They appear to be similar to some of the flavor extract manufacturers we have here in the United States; such as McCormick, J.R. Watkins, and LorAnn. They are very well respected, and used, among those in the culinary professions, and even used with some regularity in the early days of vaping. Some, such as LorAnn, still find their occasional place in e-liquid recipes.
However, for the most part, they have fallen out of popularity (because of the excessive use of oil, alcohol, and sugars), for other options/brands, that many felt were better suited to use in vaping. Though this too, in not etched in stone, and open to one's own understanding and personal choice.
Correct; ethanol is considered "acceptable" ("safe" is a word that ECF administration is not a huge fan of; because it starts crossing the boundaries of health & safety claims, and there just hasn't been enough thorough scientific study to say anything/ingredient is "safe," or "not safe")... and assuming you can keep from setting yourself on fire.
Though ethanol is not particularly thought of as "desirable" because of the perceived "harshness" many find it adds to the vapor.Further, if you mean "safe" from the standpoint of not being responsible for deforming your O-rings, I would tend to agree with you as well. I still think it has to do with the specific flavors you are using. You mentioned the brand you are using is Bolsjehuset, but you didn't say what specific flavors are causing the damage. That can still shed some light on what is damaging your O-rings.
I was rereading your original post, and I must apologize, I don't think any of us answered this part of your question for you.
The short answer is "it depends."
It depends on how much ethanol is in the mix to begin with, as well as the temperature, and viscosity, of the mix. It can be as short as a couple of hours, to as long as a few days.The common answer is to leave the new mix containing ethanol uncovered (mixes that do not contain ethanol rarely benefit from uncovered aging), at room temperature, for 24-48 hours (though mixes containing particularly high amounts of ethanol, and high VG ratios, may take even longer). You can (doesn't necessarily mean that you "should") accelerate this by adding gentle warming to the open-top technique. This can shorten the process of evaporation, from a couple of days, to a couple of hours.
By "gentle warming" I mean above room temperature (21C/70F?), and below 50C/120F. The higher the temperature; the faster the ethanol evaporates. Note: this can also increase the risk of accelerated flavor loss of certain (citrus, floral, and some fruit note seem to be some of the more susceptible flavors) flavors which contain higher levels of volatile aromatics. IF you are going to experiment with this method, I strongly encourage you to do it with minimal amounts to begin with, until you know how it is going to affect the overall flavor profile. It also helps (me at least) to have a second, identical mix, that is NOT treated with heat, made at the same time. This gives me a good baseline to understand how the addition of heat affects that specific recipe (e.g. my lemon recipes are much more sensitive to heat than my custard recipes; and one lemon is more sensitive than another lemon... and so on
).Finally; please don't take any of this as "gospel." This is only my opinion, at this time, based on my own experience, and research. Others may offer different viewpoints, and they are just as deserving of consideration, as mine.Keep asking questions, do your own research, and read, read, read...
Is the Bolsjehuset Pineapple the only flavor you had in the recipe that melted your O-rings? I can see that being a good candidate for being a "plastic eater;" as TFA's Pineapple was known to be hard on plastics.
They look like they primarily market to confectioners (candy makers). They appear to be similar to some of the flavor extract manufacturers we have here in the United States; such as McCormick, J.R. Watkins, and LorAnn. They are very well respected, and used, among those in the culinary professions, and even used with some regularity in the early days of vaping. Some, such as LorAnn, still find their occasional place in e-liquid recipes.
However, for the most part, they have fallen out of popularity (because of the excessive use of oil, alcohol, and sugars), for other options/brands, that many felt were better suited to use in vaping. Though this too, in not etched in stone, and open to one's own understanding and personal choice.
Correct; ethanol is considered "acceptable" ("safe" is a word that ECF administration is not a huge fan of; because it starts crossing the boundaries of health & safety claims, and there just hasn't been enough thorough scientific study to say anything/ingredient is "safe," or "not safe")... and assuming you can keep from setting yourself on fire.
Though ethanol is not particularly thought of as "desirable" because of the perceived "harshness" many find it adds to the vapor.Further, if you mean "safe" from the standpoint of not being responsible for deforming your O-rings, I would tend to agree with you as well. I still think it has to do with the specific flavors you are using. You mentioned the brand you are using is Bolsjehuset, but you didn't say what specific flavors are causing the damage. That can still shed some light on what is damaging your O-rings.
I was rereading your original post, and I must apologize, I don't think any of us answered this part of your question for you.
The short answer is "it depends."
It depends on how much ethanol is in the mix to begin with, as well as the temperature, and viscosity, of the mix. It can be as short as a couple of hours, to as long as a few days.The common answer is to leave the new mix containing ethanol uncovered (mixes that do not contain ethanol rarely benefit from uncovered aging), at room temperature, for 24-48 hours (though mixes containing particularly high amounts of ethanol, and high VG ratios, may take even longer). You can (doesn't necessarily mean that you "should") accelerate this by adding gentle warming to the open-top technique. This can shorten the process of evaporation, from a couple of days, to a couple of hours.
By "gentle warming" I mean above room temperature (21C/70F?), and below 50C/120F. The higher the temperature; the faster the ethanol evaporates. Note: this can also increase the risk of accelerated flavor loss of certain (citrus, floral, and some fruit note seem to be some of the more susceptible flavors) flavors which contain higher levels of volatile aromatics. IF you are going to experiment with this method, I strongly encourage you to do it with minimal amounts to begin with, until you know how it is going to affect the overall flavor profile. It also helps (me at least) to have a second, identical mix, that is NOT treated with heat, made at the same time. This gives me a good baseline to understand how the addition of heat affects that specific recipe (e.g. my lemon recipes are much more sensitive to heat than my custard recipes; and one lemon is more sensitive than another lemon... and so on
).Finally; please don't take any of this as "gospel." This is only my opinion, at this time, based on my own experience, and research. Others may offer different viewpoints, and they are just as deserving of consideration, as mine.Keep asking questions, do your own research, and read, read, read...[/QUOTE]
the first time i bough 2 of their flavors with no problem at all this time i think it is the orange flavor that made the orings enlarge. but when i used the last 2 flavors before i bought more pineapple and licorice i used them for 3 weeks and my cotton wasnt gunked up at all. now i have also tried flavor art and some their juices realy can gunk my coils up. whouldnt this show that there might not be alot of all the sugars and other oils in their flavoring?
btw i let the bottles sit open over the night and they to have calmed a bit down.
Some orange flavors (containing orange oil/essence(?); I am not sure I remember correctly) damaging certain plastics sounds familiar to me. Licorice is another one that seems to strike a note as a plastic-eater."
"Natural/Organic" citrus-based cleaners are a popular "more natural" cleaner fad here in the states currently. Most use citrus oil as the active ingredient. If you look closely at the directions, and warnings, they will caution against (or at least to test first) their use on plastic/plastic-coated surfaces. (I learned the hard way; after trashing a $130 bowling ball; because I failed to follow the directions.
)Keep in mind that coil gunking, and plastic damage, are not related (that I am aware of).
Sugars (fructose, sucrose, etc.), and even ethyl maltol (EM), are certainly major contributors to coil gunking; but not the only ones. I remember, in my early vaping days (+/- 3-4 years ago) many darkly tinted concentrates (coffee, root beer, licorice), were all commonly recognized as coil-killers. Some said is was due specifically to the the caramel coloring, others said it was all artificial colors in general, I have no idea as to the truth of it... other than dark flavor concentrates did seem to gunk up my coils much faster than clear colors.
I don't know if you have noticed that the majority of popular DIY concentrates have gone to clear/near-clear appearance. I almost never see the greens, reds, yellows, blues, and browns/blacks, that were so common 3-4 years ago. I am guessing this is in large part, due to complaints of short coil life.
I am unaware, and have never seen a conversation discussing, oil and its relationship to coil gunking. If I had to make a very ignorant guess, I would say that oil would be one of the later components to cause gunking; as it (in general terms) has a much higher burn point/temperature (186C/367F vs. 232C/450F) before carbonization begins to take affect. So, unless you are vaping at unsafe temperatures (204-218C/400-425F(?)), where even the PG and/or (?) VG become potentially a greater health risk, I don't see the oil becoming a gunking factor.
I have personally used a modest number (25 give or take) of Flavour Art's concentrates (mostly fruits, creams, and custards), and can say that I have not found any of them to be particularly prone to coil gunking. Now, if I include recipes that also include the use of sweeteners, such as EM, sucralose, or stevia; then yes they begin to gunk... but that is not due to the flavoring (FA, TFA/TPA, INW, FW, CAP, or HS)... instead it is due to the the added sweetener. (I have actually mixed up the identical recipe, with and without said sweetener, to prove this to myself.)
Whenever you have a suspect ingredient; don't be afraid to mix up a small batch of single flavor mix (one flavor + PG, VG, and nicotine to "normal use" levels), and try it. You can quickly confirm, or rule out, a suspect ingredient in the manner. It may not taste the best (something you would want to vape on a regular basis) but 5 (+/-?)mL should tell you what it does/doesn't do.
Some orange flavors (containing orange oil/essence(?); I am not sure I remember correctly) damaging certain plastics sounds familiar to me. Licorice is another one that seems to strike a note as a plastic-eater."
"Natural/Organic" citrus-based cleaners are a popular "more natural" cleaner fad here in the states currently. Most use citrus oil as the active ingredient. If you look closely at the directions, and warnings, they will caution against (or at least to test first) their use on plastic/plastic-coated surfaces. (I learned the hard way; after trashing a $130 bowling ball; because I failed to follow the directions.
Keep in mind that coil gunking, and plastic damage, are not related (that I am aware of).
Sugars (fructose, sucrose, etc.), and even ethyl maltol (EM), are certainly major contributors to coil gunking; but not the only ones. I remember, in my early vaping days (+/- 3-4 years ago) many darkly tinted concentrates (coffee, root beer, licorice), were all commonly recognized as coil-killers. Some said is was due specifically to the the caramel coloring, others said it was all artificial colors in general, I have no idea as to the truth of it... other than dark flavor concentrates did seem to gunk up my coils much faster than clear colors.
I don't know if you have noticed that the majority of popular DIY concentrates have gone to clear/near-clear appearance. I almost never see the greens, reds, yellows, blues, and browns/blacks, that were so common 3-4 years ago. I am guessing this is in large part, due to complaints of short coil life.
I am unaware, and have never seen a conversation discussing, oil and its relationship to coil gunking. If I had to make a very ignorant guess, I would say that oil would be one of the later components to cause gunking; as it (in general terms) has a much higher burn point/temperature (186C/367F vs. 232C/450F) before carbonization begins to take affect. So, unless you are vaping at unsafe temperatures (204-218C/400-425F(?)), where even the PG and/or (?) VG become potentially a greater health risk, I don't see the oil becoming a gunking factor.
I have personally used a modest number (25 give or take) of Flavour Art's concentrates (mostly fruits, creams, and custards), and can say that I have not found any of them to be particularly prone to coil gunking. Now, if I include recipes that also include the use of sweeteners, such as EM, sucralose, or stevia; then yes they begin to gunk... but that is not due to the flavoring (FA, TFA/TPA, INW, FW, CAP, or HS)... instead it is due to the the added sweetener. (I have actually mixed up the identical recipe, with and without said sweetener, to prove this to myself.)
Whenever you have a suspect ingredient; don't be afraid to mix up a small batch of single flavor mix (one flavor + PG, VG, and nicotine to "normal use" levels), and try it. You can quickly confirm, or rule out, a suspect ingredient in the manner. It may not taste the best (something you would want to vape on a regular basis) but 5 (+/-?)mL should tell you what it does/doesn't do.
after a closer look it wasnt flavorart the shop i buy from rebottle them like some of their other flavors the flavor in question that gunked my coils up real bad is called crafted aroma
on another notice do you perhaps know if the tfv8 top 0 ring the filling port fit in a tfv12 i cant seem to find it anywhere
"Rebottled" and "ready-to vape" e-liquids are completely different. Ready-to-vape will always have additions.
I have NO Idea what "crafted aromas" are, or may contain. You are on your own, and need to be asking serious questions of your suppliers.
I am sorry; I do not know that particular equipment.
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